IBT No Show Forum

[xUT]

This has been explained before.

Thanks, I missed that somehow.

SWA mechanics told AMFA leadership early on that if they let Airtran join AMFA before the seniority was settled, they would be removed as union for SWA mechanics.

They took us seriously.
We are not playing games with our seniority.
Even if they sign cards 100%, AMFA will not submit them to the NMB unless we authorize them to do so.

WOW, you guys nailed it down playing the company and amfa national at the same time.
The amfa you guys made is not the amfa I lived and supported.
I wonder what Delle-Femine would have said if you black mailed him?
I am surprised that Louie Key would support your blackmail, but hey, times are a changing...
Withholding amfa membership until you get what 'YOU' want is not a union at all.

So much for 'Honor-Skill-Integrity'.

Without SWA mechanics, how long do you think AMFA national could pay their bills?

The way you clowns are representing amfa, you will be the one and only members in the not too distant future. And maybe it's best that way as AMT's (in general) are not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.
B) xUT

 

[lineguy]

The AMFA membership spoke, AMFA National listened. Everything seems to be working as it should. If the National was telling us what to do, we would be teamsters. And you have it backwards. We aren't representing AMFA, AMFA is representing us.

 

[swamt]

A little note for all you "clowns" out here that this integration between SWA and AT mechs does not even effect. The SWA/AT nego cmtes are in fact following the law. They are in fact nego to come to a fair integration to be voted on by both memberships. Appearently, the AT group has desided to vote on the 4 yr offer from AMFA. Still the memberships will deside. If it is voted in, then the majority from both sides thinks it is fair. If it is voted down, then the majority from possibly both sides does not think it was fair. I love it when people that are not involved directly has so much input on how they think this should go. Just wait till AA and US (if they do in fact merge) start their integration nego, both sides will be fighting for the best outcome for their members, which is exactly what happens between SWA and AT. AMFA did exactly what a good union is suppose to do, protect their members seniority to the best of their ability. It's called nego gentlemen, how each side prepares for and protects their members is completely up to them. Now, give it a rest...

 

[WNMECH]

Thanks, I missed that somehow.



WOW, you guys nailed it down playing the company and amfa national at the same time.
The amfa you guys made is not the amfa I lived and supported.
I wonder what Delle-Femine would have said if you black mailed him?
I am surprised that Louie Key would support your blackmail, but hey, times are a changing...
Withholding amfa membership until you get what 'YOU' want is not a union at all.

So much for 'Honor-Skill-Integrity'.


The way you clowns are representing amfa, you will be the one and only members in the not too distant future. And maybe it's best that way as AMT's (in general) are not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.
B) xUT

We have had THIS discussion before too.
I guess you missed it also.

Amfa is not the fantasy you pretend it is.
News flash.

When we dumped the ibt, we wanted a union of our own.
We were tired of the teamsters telling us what was best for us and then not listening to us.

Amfa had a democratic system and open negotiations.
Since we never trusted the ibt, this system fit our bill.
That was all. We were not joining a cult or some over reaching utopian society to protect all aircraft mechanics in the world.

The amfa system allows us the autonomy to control our own destiny period.

If that ever changes, we will dump them also.

Amfa works for us, we don't work for them.

Why do I have to keep repeating myself to you xNUT B)

 

[swamt]

We have had THIS discussion before too.
I guess you missed it also.

Amfa is not the fantasy you pretend it is.
News flash.

When we dumped the ibt, we wanted a union of our own.
We were tired of the teamsters telling us what was best for us and then not listening to us.

Amfa had a democratic system and open negotiations.
Since we never trusted the ibt, this system fit our bill.
That was all. We were not joining a cult or some over reaching utopian society to protect all aircraft mechanics in the world.

The amfa system allows us the autonomy to control our own destiny period.

If that ever changes, we will dump them also.

Amfa works for us, we don't work for them.

Why do I have to keep repeating myself to you xNUT B)

He's done this before. He's just trying to get a rise out of us. The
more you respond to him, the longer he will continue to play his little game.

 

[WNMECH]

He's done this before. He's just trying to get a rise out of us. The
more you respond to him, the longer he will continue to play his little game.

I know, he is just hit and split.
I have taken on his nonsense head on before.

But what do I know?
I'm just one of the clowns.
I don't know anything about how AMFA is suppose to work.

 

[swamt]

I know, he is just hit and split.
I have taken on his nonsense head on before.

But what do I know?
I'm just one of the clowns.
I don't know anything about how AMFA is suppose to work.

Correct. We know nothing how AMFA works. Only everyone else NOT represented by AMFA knows how AMFA works...

 

[AvTech04]

A little note for all you "clowns" out here that this integration between SWA and AT mechs does not even effect. The SWA/AT nego cmtes are in fact following the law. They are in fact nego to come to a fair integration to be voted on by both memberships. Appearently, the AT group has desided to vote on the 4 yr offer from AMFA. Still the memberships will deside. If it is voted in, then the majority from both sides thinks it is fair. If it is voted down, then the majority from possibly both sides does not think it was fair. I love it when people that are not involved directly has so much input on how they think this should go. Just wait till AA and US (if they do in fact merge) start their integration nego, both sides will be fighting for the best outcome for their members, which is exactly what happens between SWA and AT. AMFA did exactly what a good union is suppose to do, protect their members seniority to the best of their ability. It's called nego gentlemen, how each side prepares for and protects their members is completely up to them. Now, give it a rest...

I have to disagree. This integration was not done in a fair manner nor is this vote fair. You've threatened and scared the AT committee into a position that resulted in the AT committee coming off their mark and negotiating our seniority away without our permission. The clowns were the AT committee members and the IBT, or more the puppets. AMFA made this negotiations as unfair as legally or illegally possible.

After the announcement of the aquisition was made, there was silence in both MX sides, AMFA ignored the IBT and vise versa. Then, the SWA AMFA committee made the first move by "voting" on the march 28th LOA that virtually placed every AT mechanic in the bottom of the seniority list if we got integrated. Dirty, but okay, I get it... Then, when ATL came together under the direction of our MX manager at the time, Jim Trebelcock, and made a committee, the first thing they did was offer you some seniority to make this happen. And as a reply, you asked for a staple.

They were back and forth for a few months, wasting time, playing AMFA's game they way AMFA planned on playing it from the beginning... Dirty!

So, instead of having the IBT file for arbitration from the begining, like the membership wanted, they allowed the AT committee to try and negotiate away out seniority. In which they have successfully done!!

To say that this deal is fair or done fairly is laughable at best. AT was trying to at fair with someone who was ready to slit our necks if necessary to spite their craft. That's why I will never agree with anyone who tries to analyze this and say it was fair!!

I'm pushing for this vote now because I'm tired of playing this game against AMFA, we were setup to lose from the beginning but no one bothered to look 5 mins in front of them to see that. Arbitration a year ago would have been fair regardless of the results just because how dirty AMFA has been playing this integration. And step 1 was that LOA!! I don't care who or what you are, that LOA was illegal and wrong. And sure you'll be willing to give it up now, but nothing stops you from getting it back after this is said and done, certainly not Jim suchhole, the SWA manager that signed off on it.

Let's call this what it truely is, an ultimate win for SWA mechanics! Regardless of how much more money AT might be getting out of this deal, SWA mechs get the ultimate prize, a nice little cushion at the bottom of the seniority list, plus less competition and more seniority for the next buyout or merger SWA does!! Because the money and benefits you already had so the ultimate winner here, SWA mechanics. So, I think we at Airtran deserve a thank you for giving you an everlasting 4 year boost over what you already have. Something an arbitrator would have never granted you....

So, let's get this over with. Vote the 4 years in, merge the 2 work groups and lets move on! But don't ever slap me in the face and say this was done fairly!

 

[lineguy]

I disagree.

 

[POBIT]

Avtech04 you may still get your wish for arbitration. Even though this is getting sent out for a vote doesn't mean it will pass. I've said before that I think its a 50-50 on the Swa side at best so AMFA will need to put out a sales pitch because this is definitely not a for sure thing. Many feel the loa is worth more or should stay in tact, we should go to arbitration and not vote a jcba, or they feel the dallas dayshifters came up with this on their own (even though its been said it was a info meeting). There are many more reasons which is why I say amfa still has an uphill fight. I would be curious to hear what the at guys are saying on the floor. I know some like avtech04 think this nego has been unfair to their side from the start but this is a fight. I do sincerely hope this will be over soon so we can start working together towards our future

 

[swamt]

AvTech04, You said something very interesting that caught my eye. Since alot of people thought that the LOA was obtained illeagally, let's say this offer is voted in on both sides, I say we bring in a new LOA, same verbage and include all the AT guys at such a date. I'm telling you guys there is going to be another airline bought by SWA. We tried to get language put in the last section 6 with the company that addresses buy-outs, aquisitions, take overs and mergers, but the AMFA cmte (at that time) didn't see this aquisition of AirTran coming. Now that they got hit with one, bet they would easily be willing to do another one. Get it into our contract again, then when SWA buys another company, the company knows up front that we have it. I am in no way saying our current LOA is illeagal. Matter fact I think it will stand even if it was challenged. That LOA was signed do to the constant and deliberate dodging of the teamsters not talking to us, or allowing the AT gys to talk to us, for months this went on. AMFA had no idea what to expect from the teamsters, and with the utter hatred the teamsters have for AMFA as well as all the mechs at SWA, they had to move quickly to protect their members the best possible way do to the teamsters refusing to talk, answer phone calls, come to the table, refusing to talk to the company, and refusing to allow the AT mechs to talk to us, we tried, the teamsters (political agenda once again) is what brought out the LOA. So once again you guys have another reason to thank your wonderful union representation for the infamous LOA.
I understand some of you really do blame AMFA for this. You guys need to really look 100% fault upon your union. Again, we told you guys from the get go how the teamsters were going to handle this for you guys and they did exactly what we said. Them removing power from the nego cmte so that they could try to get payback to us and AMFA was the biggest wrong move to do.

Also lets not forget, AMFA is going to have to "sell" this agreement big time. We have been telling you guys all along that it will be close on the SWA side. To be honest with you, most everyone at SWa thinks you guys will vote it in. It's going to be a matter of selling the LOA for a mere 4 years. However like I said before we could easily get another one done with the company after we are all one, hell we could get it in our single CBA that the company wants so bad. Also, as you have stated before, once this is done and overwith, then all you guys will be under AMFA, and rid of the teamsters, and then you guys will have 150% better representation, would you not agree?? AMFA does what the membership tells them to do, teamsters do what the teamsters want, comepletely dismissing what the membership wants...

 

[swamt]

Avtech04 you may still get your wish for arbitration. Even though this is getting sent out for a vote doesn't mean it will pass. I've said before that I think its a 50-50 on the Swa side at best so AMFA will need to put out a sales pitch because this is definitely not a for sure thing. Many feel the loa is worth more or should stay in tact, we should go to arbitration and not vote a jcba, or they feel the dallas dayshifters came up with this on their own (even though its been said it was a info meeting). There are many more reasons which is why I say amfa still has an uphill fight. I would be curious to hear what the at guys are saying on the floor. I know some like avtech04 think this nego has been unfair to their side from the start but this is a fight. I do sincerely hope this will be over soon so we can start working together towards our future

You are 100% correct. Tough sell on our side. Arbitration is still dangling out there. We should know more after the road shows.

 

[WNMECH]

And step 1 was that LOA!! I don't care who or what you are, that LOA was illegal and wrong. And sure you'll be willing to give it up now, but nothing stops you from getting it back after this is said and done, certainly not Jim suchhole, the SWA manager that signed off on it.

All we keep hearing from the other side is how mean and unfair SWA mechanics and AMFA have been.
This highlighted quote hints at the real elephant in the room.

The company started this and agrees with us.

Your little review of the history of this has left out a few details.

All work groups waited for the pilots to settle and set the precedent for negotiations.

The company gave a LOA protection letter to SWA pilots first.

The company told Airtran pilots that they would give up seniority or would never see SWA pilot wages .

The company, the people who sign your pay checks, believe all SWA employees deserve a seniority boost in exchange for the superior pay and benefits that the Airtran employees will get.

The company gave SWA mechanics a protection LOA because they think it is fair.

Anyone who says this is all because AMFA or SWA mechanics are playing “Dirty” or are mean and have no “Honor-Skill-Integrity” xNUT B) are missing these facts.

The company controls this whole thing.
If they said they would pay Airtran employees SWA wage rates regardless of the outcome, then all work groups would hold out for DOH.

But guess what?

The company has a major say in what is fair and equitable to all employees and believes this is the fair way to do it.

All work groups are trying to get the best deal for themselves and the selective outrage to just SWA employees is noticeable.

Try going in and directing this same level of distain to the company who is directing this seniority for benefits swap for all.
We have an open door policy at SWA. You can go right in to a manager or director or VPs office and tell them how mean and dirty they are for wanting a fair seniority for benefits deal for SWA employees, and for buying Airtran and giving them opportunities they would never see at Airtran anywhere in the near future.

I am sure the company cares how you feel about it.

 

[SWA.TECH]

I have to disagree. This integration was not done in a fair manner nor is this vote fair. You've threatened and scared the AT committee into a position that resulted in the AT committee coming off their mark and negotiating our seniority away without our permission. The clowns were the AT committee members and the IBT, or more the puppets. AMFA made this negotiations as unfair as legally or illegally possible.

After the announcement of the aquisition was made, there was silence in both MX sides, AMFA ignored the IBT and vise versa. Then, the SWA AMFA committee made the first move by "voting" on the march 28th LOA that virtually placed every AT mechanic in the bottom of the seniority list if we got integrated. Dirty, but okay, I get it... Then, when ATL came together under the direction of our MX manager at the time, Jim Trebelcock, and made a committee, the first thing they did was offer you some seniority to make this happen. And as a reply, you asked for a staple.

They were back and forth for a few months, wasting time, playing AMFA's game they way AMFA planned on playing it from the beginning... Dirty!

So, instead of having the IBT file for arbitration from the begining, like the membership wanted, they allowed the AT committee to try and negotiate away out seniority. In which they have successfully done!!

To say that this deal is fair or done fairly is laughable at best. AT was trying to at fair with someone who was ready to slit our necks if necessary to spite their craft. That's why I will never agree with anyone who tries to analyze this and say it was fair!!

I'm pushing for this vote now because I'm tired of playing this game against AMFA, we were setup to lose from the beginning but no one bothered to look 5 mins in front of them to see that. Arbitration a year ago would have been fair regardless of the results just because how dirty AMFA has been playing this integration. And step 1 was that LOA!! I don't care who or what you are, that LOA was illegal and wrong. And sure you'll be willing to give it up now, but nothing stops you from getting it back after this is said and done, certainly not Jim suchhole, the SWA manager that signed off on it.

Let's call this what it truely is, an ultimate win for SWA mechanics! Regardless of how much more money AT might be getting out of this deal, SWA mechs get the ultimate prize, a nice little cushion at the bottom of the seniority list, plus less competition and more seniority for the next buyout or merger SWA does!! Because the money and benefits you already had so the ultimate winner here, SWA mechanics. So, I think we at Airtran deserve a thank you for giving you an everlasting 4 year boost over what you already have. Something an arbitrator would have never granted you....

So, let's get this over with. Vote the 4 years in, merge the 2 work groups and lets move on! But don't ever slap me in the face and say this was done fairly!

LOL, AMFA signed the arbitration paperwork already dummy. It would be cheaper for the company to arbitrate, and potentially go A/B scale on a new CBA. Keep on your high horse, I worked at AT, along with quite a few others, who all left to work at a better airline. Whay didnt you try? or did you ??? You may in fact get your chance, keep spouting off at the mouth dummy.

 

[AvTech04]

LOL, AMFA signed the arbitration paperwork already dummy. It would be cheaper for the company to arbitrate, and potentially go A/B scale on a new CBA. Keep on your high horse, I worked at AT, along with quite a few others, who all left to work at a better airline. Whay didnt you try? or did you ??? You may in fact get your chance, keep spouting off at the mouth dummy.

I posted my opinion about you already, so go back and take a look. I'm not entertaining your idiocy, but I will answer your question, for the 5th time since you apparently can't remember. I was hired by SWA for a position in MCO before even going over to AirTran. I turned it down because, apparently, SWA and their ultimate management and brilliance posts positions internally while simultaneously posting the same position externally. So I applied, got hired and someone transferred into the position I was hired for before I could begin... They then offered me the position that opened because of the transfer and I humbly turned it down. SWA is just another airline, same at delta or AirTran in my perspective, only difference is they just over pay for their performance. In the end, I decided to stick with Airtran. They were the logical choice for me seeing that I am unwilling to move or change my way of life for any airline. But, like I said, I am not entertaining any of the idiocy that comes from your posts any longer, so go find my opinion of you and have a nice day