IBT No Show Forum

[AvTech04]

My question to the Airtran guys is this:

Why do you think the IBT signed the arbitration agreement that clearly leaves our LOA in tact?

And why have they not explained that fact to their Airtran members ?


Seems like the Teamsters lawyer is keeping some secrets from their dues paying members.

Wow, I am so surprised.

Not.

I agree with you more than you can possibly imagine! I've lost all trust in the IBT and the AT committee. I say let the SWA guys have their 4 years and lets move on. Put it to vote and let's see what happens!

 

[swamt]

For my future brothers is AT, please understand the arbitration process has been agreed to by all three parties. I have seen and held a SIGNED copy. Signed by AMFA, SWA and your own IBT Rep and your Business Agent. Maybe you need to hunt them down to ask to see it.

This document is only five pages long. It details how the sides will select the three arbitrators and their powers/authority. It specifically says the jurisdiction is they will combine the seniority lists in their opinion of fair and equitable. Resolve any dispute in the Final Award LOOK HERE ----> provided that neither its Final Award, nor any interpretation thereof, may modify the terms of any existing CBA... Meaning that should we go to arbitration, IBT has agreed the March 29th letter stays in place. Also the Master list shall become effective after a single union is in place and after a single CBA is agreed upon.

Look, 4 years is alot, but really, it is all the SWA guys are getting. There are agruments on your side against this, believe me I have heard them all, probably. But from the SWA guy, this is the only thing they recieve in this and that is with the dilution of the list. Everything that is in the SWA transition document will benefit the AT guys too once they change to Canyon Blue.

Well since you brought it out in the light. I wasn't going to mention this part until they filed suit over the LOA. And none of thier members seen this writing in thier process agreements. Actually wondering if the ibt/teamsters missed it somehow. But at least now we finally got the ibt/teamsters to finally sign-off on us keeping our LOA. How would that make them look if they tried to sue over something they agreed to in prior documents? I would have to say that's biggie for the AMFA side. If we had this prior to AMFA moving all the way down to 4 yrs, I would have been holding at 6-8 yrs. Still hoping we can get this done outside of arbitration...

 

[swamt]

Here are some interesting numbers and one of the luckiest mechs out there.
As of today 4-16-12 SWA has hired 74 mechanics since the May 2, 2011 cut off date for seniority enhancement. This means to date, that 74 guys will be below all AT guys, unless AT has hired since that date. And I think they have back in July of 2011.
To date we have 1714 on the cat seniority list.
Then we have employee John Doe hired on May 2 2011. Good thing he wasn't hired 5-3-2011. He will be the last mech to get a 4 yr boost if this current 4yr offer is passed by both sides. Hmmmmm, wonder how he is voting.
Here's some info for the AT guys; On top of the 74 mechanics not getting anykind of a boost, there will be 40-60 more added to that list throughout the rest of this year. So to put into perspective, AT's lowest seniority guys are getting more and better protection then if SWA did not buy them out. They all now have as much as 114-134 mechanics below them if they vote this in. That's 100 plus more mechanics than they have right now below them which is none. Not to mention the hiring that will have to take place when the W/A goes away, and just general hiring to keep the numbers correct. Just currious if the lower seniority guys at AT has thought about this yet. In other words, they would be better protected voting the current offer in now, rather than delaying it. Just something to think about...

 

[swa1963]

As for the threats made to try and put AT mechanics out of a job if arbitraion doesn't go in the SWA mechanics favor, I have to reply that I'm not concerned with it. I don't takes threats made on my livelihood very lightly, but what the SWA memebership is suggesting is dirty and crude to say the least. I would've never suspected that SWA and it's mechanics would stoop that low just to get what you want. You know as well as I know that it's a dirty path to go down. Never the less, if that were to occur I can assure you that there are multiple litigation paths that will be taken to protect our positions. I'm hopeful that it doesn't come down to that, but not fearful of it either.

Unions will stoop that low! don't confuse AMFA and Mechanics looking out for their own welfare as speaking for Southwest Airlines! Believe me this would have already been a done deal if not for Unions

 

[WNMECH]

As for the threats made to try and put AT mechanics out of a job if arbitraion doesn't go in the SWA mechanics favor, I have to reply that I'm not concerned with it. I don't takes threats made on my livelihood very lightly, but what the SWA memebership is suggesting is dirty and crude to say the least. I would've never suspected that SWA and it's mechanics would stoop that low just to get what you want. You know as well as I know that it's a dirty path to go down. Never the less, if that were to occur I can assure you that there are multiple litigation paths that will be taken to protect our positions. I'm hopeful that it doesn't come down to that, but not fearful of it either.

Unions will stoop that low! don't confuse AMFA and Mechanics looking out for their own welfare as speaking for Southwest Airlines! Believe me this would have already been a done deal if not for Unions

SWA1963,
I know you copied and pasted the first paragraph from an AvTech04 post.
This response is to him in that paragraph.

I am not one who is threatening anyone's job, I just won't vote on a JCBA.

So let's try this out.

"Your Honor, these SWA guys won't vote the way I want on a JCBA, I want to sue. Whaaaaa"

"They can vote how they want on their contract, your case is dismissed."

 

[swa1963]

SWA1963,
I know you copied and pasted the first paragraph from an AvTech04 post.
This response is to him in that paragraph.

I am not one who is threatening anyone's job, I just won't vote on a JCBA.

So let's try this out.

"Your Honor, these SWA guys won't vote the way I want on a JCBA, I want to sue. Whaaaaa"

"They can vote how they want on their contract, your case is dismissed."

We can all Agree having a vote is better than having no vote all!

 

[Flman]

Here are some interesting numbers and one of the luckiest mechs out there.
As of today 4-16-12 SWA has hired 74 mechanics since the May 2, 2011 cut off date for seniority enhancement. This means to date, that 74 guys will be below all AT guys, unless AT has hired since that date. And I think they have back in July of 2011.
To date we have 1714 on the cat seniority list.
Then we have employee John Doe hired on May 2 2011. Good thing he wasn't hired 5-3-2011. He will be the last mech to get a 4 yr boost if this current 4yr offer is passed by both sides. Hmmmmm, wonder how he is voting.
Here's some info for the AT guys; On top of the 74 mechanics not getting anykind of a boost, there will be 40-60 more added to that list throughout the rest of this year. So to put into perspective, AT's lowest seniority guys are getting more and better protection then if SWA did not buy them out. They all now have as much as 114-134 mechanics below them if they vote this in. That's 100 plus more mechanics than they have right now below them which is none. Not to mention the hiring that will have to take place when the W/A goes away, and just general hiring to keep the numbers correct. Just currious if the lower seniority guys at AT has thought about this yet. In other words, they would be better protected voting the current offer in now, rather than delaying it. Just something to think



We hired about 20-25

 

[WNMECH]

We can all Agree having a vote is better than having no vote all!

Agreed 100%

 

[AvTech04]

We can all Agree having a vote is better than having no vote all!

10000000% agreed!! Don't even have a meeting the 23rd. I mean, the Atlanta guys on the committee were negotiating on their own with AMFA and SWA before the last meeting, why don't you just put the conference call in and send the packages out to vote! Get er done already!! And to clarify, this isn't for fear or desperation, it'll be a year since the aquisition and we're pretty much the last big group not done yet! Pilots and F/A's are done, let's get this one done and over with!! I don't want to talk about it anymore and I want to negotiate the next contract with the SWA guys!

 

[xUT]

10000000% agreed!! Don't even have a meeting the 23rd. I mean, the Atlanta guys on the committee were negotiating on their own with AMFA and SWA before the last meeting, why don't you just put the conference call in and send the packages out to vote! Get er done already!! And to clarify, this isn't for fear or desperation, it'll be a year since the aquisition and we're pretty much the last big group not done yet! Pilots and F/A's are done, let's get this one done and over with!! I don't want to talk about it anymore and I want to negotiate the next contract with the SWA guys!

I may have said this before, but the 'first' thing the AT M&R should have done on 'rumor' of a merger is sign AMFA cards and request a change in Union Representation.
You would be AMFA by now and AMFA would accept DOH from fellow AMFA M&R (so I have been told...maybe... ).
IMHO, the ibt 'hates' AMFA (I do mean HATE). AMFA has no respect or love loss for the ibt either as the ibt drags their a$$ on anything that may cost them dues money and loose membership to AMFA. The ibt is for the ibt and if it helps the 'membership' then consider yourselves fortunate.
Get every every AT M&R to sign AMFA cards and submit to the NMB ASAP, before this goes to arbitration.
Do it "TODAY", do it "NOW".

Click here for an Authorization Card

JMHO&PO,
I am perplexed as to why AMFA hasn't proposed this at the beginning.
B) xUT

 

[WNMECH]

I am perplexed as to why AMFA hasn't proposed this at the beginning.
B) xUT

This has been explained before.

SWA mechanics told AMFA leadership early on that if they let Airtran join AMFA before the seniority was settled, they would be removed as union for SWA mechanics.

They took us seriously.
We are not playing games with our seniority.
Even if they sign cards 100%, AMFA will not submit them to the NMB unless we authorize them to do so.

Without SWA mechanics, how long do you think AMFA national could pay their bills?

 

[buscador]

Drama? Are you kidding me? Have you read the southwest posts? If it goes to arbitration and Air Tran guys get straight seniority or even better, 4 years added to their seniority which is what the other guys are trying to do then what do you think will happen???? Do you think the SWA guys will accept it? Never! They will keep AT guys separated with lower wages and then watch as the company slowly dismantles the Air Tran netork and those guys start to lose their jobs (assuming Southwest ever figures out how to do a simple codeshare or accept international res). If this goes to arbitration there will be nothing but drama and it will be drawn out, long battle probably worse than the US pilots, which is why I said that I would hope that the Air Tran guys accept the 4 years and then the company can move on without it being like the pilot situation at US. Read the posts of all the SWA guys who predict what will happen if it goes to arbitration and how they get protections from their LOA which protects them but not AT and then talk to me about drama buddy.

I understand what your saying but your comparing a snowball fight to an avalanche,, the Pilot situatiion over at US is a nightmare shared by thousands of egos and millions of dollars and will forever divide that company and thousands of lives. Thought I agree with some of your points there are only 360 or so mechs at AT and the public will never see the dirty laundry aired, the passengers will not see the discord and you wont have employees walking around like the HP pilots with Cactus ids,, so really not the same in the big picture.

Its time for AT to realize they got the better end of this transaction as the SWA employee gets nothing, Give up their 4 years and move on. If it goes to arbitration it will be hard to believe any SWA employee would look upon them with respect, even worse will create a divide that can never be closed.

 

[AvTech04]

I may have said this before, but the 'first' thing the AT M&R should have done on 'rumor' of a merger is sign AMFA cards and request a change in Union Representation.
You would be AMFA by now and AMFA would accept DOH from fellow AMFA M&R (so I have been told...maybe... ).
IMHO, the ibt 'hates' AMFA (I do mean HATE). AMFA has no respect or love loss for the ibt either as the ibt drags their a$$ on anything that may cost them dues money and loose membership to AMFA. The ibt is for the ibt and if it helps the 'membership' then consider yourselves fortunate.
Get every every AT M&R to sign AMFA cards and submit to the NMB ASAP, before this goes to arbitration.
Do it "TODAY", do it "NOW".

Click here for an Authorization Card

JMHO&PO,
I am perplexed as to why AMFA hasn't proposed this at the beginning.
B) xUT

It was offered to AT mechs in the beginning, and a lot filled them out and mailed them in, but with no response. We suspect it was because of the SWA mechanics. That's when we initially realized that this was going to become a sort of dog fight. I, for one, am filling out another one and starting another card drive for them. I'll even still give the existing memebership a 4 year bump, but would rather have a real committee and a real union represent me at this point.

The IBT was a mistake, this AT committee was a mistake, these negotiations were a joke. One of our attorney's is on the SWA payroll and none will answer a single question!!!

Just put it to vote and get this done already!!

 

[Flman]

It looks like we are going to vote the 4 years bump and some protections in BWI and MCO. Check all of AMFA locals websites. let's get this done.

 

[swamt]

It looks like we are going to vote the 4 years bump and some protections in BWI and MCO. Check all of AMFA locals websites. let's get this done.

Looks like you are correct. Here's the update posted on AMFA Nationals web site;


AMFA - SWA Seniority List Integration Update













Apr 16, 2012 - Posted by: Floyd Looney





Dear Members:

On April 11, 2012, your AMFA SWA Seniority List Integration Committee met with the IBT/AirTran Negotiating Committee in Dallas, Texas at the Southwest Airlines Maintenance Hangar for further discussions on the SWA/AirTran Seniority Integration. In these meetings your Committee formally presented our proposal of a four (4) year increase for the SWA Seniority with station protections in BWI and MCO. Our proposal was accepted by the IBT/AirTran Committee.

Many thanks go out to the committees and observers from both groups, and the Southwest management team for being dedicated to their members' and employees' needs in order to find a means to get the Seniority and Transition Agreements concluded. We are scheduled to meet again on April 23, 2012, to complete the document language review and hopefully finalize the deal which will then be submitted to the members of both groups for a ratification vote. If we are successful, then informational meetings will be scheduled.