IBT No Show Forum

[SWA.TECH]

Bean counters don't look at anything within mx as cost saving. Everything is an expense. Either your revenue is greater than your expense (profit) or your revenue is less than your expense (loss). Cost saving is a term used by everyone outside of finance to make sure they stay on track with their budgetary requirements. It's very hard to put a real value or dollar amount to how much we save by outsourcing. The numbers are very subjective and easy to manipulate.

Right MadMan, but Im not a bean counter , and I KNOW it is a signifigant number. You know, when you know? and even though someone tries to disguise the truth you still know? The seed of doubt is like a damned seqouia....

 

[AvTech04]

I would like to point out that SWA MX and AMFA agreed to outsourcing certain MX which in turn allowed the company to save millions of dollars in MX costs, do you think any of that $$$ was used to help pay of some of the 2 billion in debt AT owned at date of purchase.....

Wow, I have to admit, I'm highly impressed with your knowledge of Airtran's financial status and all it's debts after the buyout. You're putting out information that I didn't even know about.. But, where exactly did you get this information from I wonder? Becaue the total cost I saw was 3.4 billion which has already returned over 200 million in a year.. And the difference from the 1.4 billion purchase to the 3.4 billion, as I understood it, came from the stock conversion and final payout.. So, I'm seriously wondering where did the 2 billion of debt come from??

 

[AvTech04]

Bean counters don't look at anything within mx as cost saving. Everything is an expense. Either your revenue is greater than your expense (profit) or your revenue is less than your expense (loss). Cost saving is a term used by everyone outside of finance to make sure they stay on track with their budgetary requirements. It's very hard to put a real value or dollar amount to how much we save by outsourcing. The numbers are very subjective and easy to manipulate.

I have to agree with this entire post, MX is nothing more than an expense for airlines, unless you part 145 your MX and try an MRO.. But, SWA has to know how much it costs, labor only, to in house a y check verses outsourcing it.. If a check takes 5000 man hours, for example, and the average in house check cost SWA $65/hr to do that check then you have a labor cost of 325,000, all purely examples. But at an out source station, labor costs alone, could run down to as little as $10/ hr for the same check, and cost 50,000. A savings of 275,000 just in labor... All fegmented figures, not exact numbers obviously, but pretty close and realistic.

 

[SWA.TECH]

Wow, I have to admit, I'm highly impressed with your knowledge of Airtran's financial status and all it's debts after the buyout. You're putting out information that I didn't even know about.. But, where exactly did you get this information from I wonder? Becaue the total cost I saw was 3.4 billion which has already returned over 200 million in a year.. And the difference from the 1.4 billion purchase to the 3.4 billion, as I understood it, came from the stock conversion and final payout.. So, I'm seriously wondering where did the 2 billion of debt come from??

from stuff airtran bought on credit? where does debt come from?

 

[swamt]

As mentioned before, avtech does not speak for a significant number of AT mechanics. He is only one vote and is in the minority. He's all talk.

I think your right. He's still trying to get the pecentiles back. This is it boys. I have heard the AMFA cmte say they are done nego. If ibt refuses to allow a vote by the AT membership, there are ways to get it to them in order to vote without the ibt. That's also why I wrote the long winded post refering to past posts.

 

[swamt]

I was talking to a buddy of mine in MCO and was told SWA mechs are filing grievances against us for working on their A/C. Anyone know if this is true? I didn't think we could work their A/C and visa verca.

If you haven't been answered yet. Grievences have been and continue to be filed. What the delay was wording them correctly. They had to be proofread by attoreys first. Now that we have all the verbage worked out and references they will start to pick up.

 

[swamt]

The IBT will more than likely wait until the horizon air deal is done one way or the other, and if they loose representation, they will reject ANY offer AMFA SWA submits REGARDLESS of what is good for the membership , so sad.... I feel bad for the AT mechs who are resonable, but will have no voice because the IBT has no democratic process. Its easy for me to see as we were represented by the IBT 10 years or so back, Its just sad a group can be so controlling and prevent a core membership from even getting the chance to vote... Boy thats a democratic union.... why not put a vote out to see if the majority wants to vote????

As sad as it may be, your first sentence is right on I believe too. teamsters are witing to see the outcome of the union election at HA. If they are removed from HA I'm sure the teamsters are going to blame AMFA and SWA mechanics for their removal, and yes as you state will not allow the AT guys to vote on their own future, then the teamsters and ibt will run their futures right into the ground. Remember what happend to the AT pilots group when their union refused to let their members see or vote on it. You guys think the company was involved before; ibt pulls this crap and you guys will see a big change from the company's attitude. Just saying. LOL

 

[SWA.TECH]

As sad as it may be, your first sentence is right on I believe too. teamsters are witing to see the outcome of the union election at HA. If they are removed from HA I'm sure the teamsters are going to blame AMFA and SWA mechanics for their removal, and yes as you state will not allow the AT guys to vote on their own future, then the teamsters and ibt will run their futures right into the ground. Remember what happend to the AT pilots group when their union refused to let their members see or vote on it. You guys think the company was involved before; ibt pulls this crap and you guys will see a big change from the company's attitude. Just saying. LOL

Its sad , I just wish the HA , and AT guys understood. I was here for the teamsters, I remember why we voted them out. I also will not sell out our junior guys I remember the Vote No ,vote no ,vote no, vote yes for the top loaded contract debacle... It was a good contract but was definetly loaded to sway the senior and at the time majority. I thought the scale should have been a little more gradual into the top out, not all in year 5.. Anyway I digress, but I wont sell out the junior guys because of that.

 

[swamt]

Not quite sure what youre implying about the time stamps , verbage , or troll post? However I dont think the IBT will give us a chance to vote on it , based on my most recent previous replys. I am in no way associated with lineguy or atmech01 (who I agree is an imposter, I did find it amusing though) with the exception that I am an SWA AMT. And I also agree with lineguy about XUT and tech2101 or whatever his sig is , as far as the fact that they have no dog in this fight. I would also add I feel they are severely disgruntled ex major guys, and its not there fault they were subjected to piss poor management decisions, there is probably a condition associated with this , like post poor management syndrome , or something PPMS..... Anyway I honestly dont believe we will get a chance to vote because IBT knows whats best....

I think the ibt would be stupid not to allow them to vote. They know this. The Horizon Air mechanics are watching the fiasco over here with SWA/AT with a fine toothed comb. Just by the teamsters removing the nego team and threatening to goto arbitration without members input may have been the nail in the coffen. Now, if they do in fact hold out until the voting is done and overwith at HA, and they do not allow the AT mechanics to vote on this deal, guess who is sitting in the back of the room gathering all this information together for a huge and fast card drive? UAL/CAL! Just goto their web site and see. It's true. If the teamsters refuse to let their members see this offer and vote on it, and continue their political antics to try and continue to "get back" at the SWA guys, then UAL/CAL is preparing to have them removed as well. They too was promiced the world and are now seeing the light.

 

[swamt]

AvTech04;

I am refering to 2 of your post. #829 & #832. In one you say you will take a 30% reduction. In the other you say you would vote to give 1 or 2 years. Knowing these are your hard core numbers and minimums, tells me you have somewhere between 3.5 yrs and 7 yrs with AT not the larger number in the teens that I think you posted a long long time ago in the original thread that was removed. Why do I say this? Because anyone's bottom numbers, 99.9% of the time, will coincide with each other when comparing boosting or reduction. They go hand and hand. In other words 30% of 3.5 yrs = aprox 1 yr, 30% of 7 yrs = aprox 2 yrs. We've heard from the get go that AT "will not" take a hit in their senority, that it's DOH or arbitration. The SWA membership was willing to change the reduction in AT senority over to the yearly boost, as the majority of the AT side has said they would prefer a boost to us rather than a reduction to their senority, time and time again. Now for the AMFA membership to agree to keep going with the boost rather than the reduction method, they were asked what it would take, the 4 years overwhelmingly came out, matter fact unnamously, not one single person voted to not to support the yearly offer. The way I see it was, the 30% is actually right at the 4 years for you, right? At least going by your poat from way back when. If I have the wrong guy pls say so and I appoligize in advance. There was one other poster with tech in the name and a number, maybe it was him/her.
We don't want this to drag out, you guys don't want this to drag out, and the company don't want this to drag out. Sorry to tell you, but 4 really is the bottom number. As you know from the original thread, I was 25-35% with a settle of 30% as well, however, I am not the majority, the majority wanted yrs. The 4 yrs helps our lower senority guys out the best, the AT guys voted in the other offer overwhelmingly with the 4 yr minimum. Yes it had fences, but we all knew it was a no brainer "no" vote from the SWA guys with any fences involved. Plus getting rid of our overwhelmingly protection LOA letter is also what the minimum 4 yrs is all about, that's huge. You guys really do need to take the 4 yrs to a vote and consider it. The company is very comfortable with the current offer being made. If the ibt refuses to allow their membership to vote on it, well, that will be on them. They better do what the majority of their membership wants and let them have a say so to their future not the ibt's when they are done and gone from AT. Hate to see arbitration, but to tell you the truth, we have nothing at all to lose, and we will retain our original LOA letter as well, so we would be better protected in the long run anyway. Think about it guys, think long and hard. This is not a personal threat or anything like that, I just know what the membership is willing to do if this does get dragged out and into arbitration. Plus we will have years and years of seperation amongst the mechanic group.
Although I have not read the written offer beig sent over, but if it has "everything" we have been told, so far, in it and evrything the company has said and offered in the trans agreement, I will be a yes vote on this one. I know I wanted % over years, but the main issue with the fences are gone and then we can all move onto contract nego.
BTW: It has been stated that AMFA is in fact in contact with alot of ATL mechanics and they want to see this offer and vote on it. Both thru locals as well as AMFA National.

Posted almost 40 post ago and no responce whatsoever. Wonder why? Just saying. <_<

 

[Flman]

I think your right. He's still trying to get the pecentiles back. This is it boys. I have heard the AMFA cmte say they are done nego. If ibt refuses to allow a vote by the AT membership, there are ways to get it to them in order to vote without the ibt. That's also why I wrote the long winded post refering to past posts.

What are you getting at?

 

[SWA.TECH]

What are you getting at?

Really? Really Really? It is in english.

 

[Flman]

. If ibt refuses to allow a vote by the AT membership, there are ways to get it to them in order to vote without the ibt.

What is he getting at? Elaborate.

 

[WNMECH]

What is he getting at? Elaborate.

Don't tell him.
Just let him squirm.

 

[SWA.TECH]

Use your imagination, what are all of the possible courses of action the IBT could take? What are the most probable and easy ways they could resolve this? Can they save face? When I say resolve I don't mean to benefit AT, I am referring to provide the best POSSIBLE outcome for the IBT..... anyway good luck dealing with them , you will know why they were voted out of SWA MX in a record time.