IBT No Show Forum

[MadMan337]

Remember; we've been telling you guys about certain promices the company makes to you all. They always promice, promice and promice, then run into brick walls when they try to deliver. Look at the DFW guys, 4 line of maint, Denver maint, 401K match ect...
I just read this morning an article that said the 2 lines running in Seattle will soon become 4, and another statement about getting 3-4 a/c done per month. They are also looking at contracting with another FBO to increase the conversions. The article was off of yahoo news I believe. AvTech, the guys are not posting this stuff as a scare tactic, they are posting all info that can and will happen as we hear it because we know you all are being told differently by the ibt/teamsters and even some info comming from the company, matter fact read any and all news releases with GK being quoted and you will see. In a way I still wish the ibt does abandon you guys and turn you guys over to AMFA's problem (as they say)-you guys would be so informed it will overwhelm you. Remember this: if the ibt decertify's you guys are not automatically all of the sudden AMFA-you guys have to be on our senority list first. However AMFA would still help represent you guys to get thru the integration part of it. Again the guys are not fear mungering, just explaining how our contract reads as far as maint. on the a/c.

If the IBT files for a determination of Single Transporter System with the NMB and the decision from the NMB is that SWA and AT are indeed a Single Transporter System they will then determine which Union has the representation rights to the class and craft of aircraft mechanic. This must be done because the RLA only allows one union to represent any particular class and craft within a Single Transporter System. If there are not enough IBT cards submitted to the NMB requesting that a representation election be conducted then AMFA will be declared the representing union of the entire class and craft of mechanics and related because there are 1700 SWA and only 375 AT mechanics. The NMB assumes when there are not enough cards asking for a representation vote then the union representing the majority of the combined group to be the rightful representative of the combined group. AMFA will then represent the SWA mechanics under their current CBA and the AT mechanics under their CBA. The CBA's and groups will be represented separately by AMFA until the SLI and Transitions Agreements are ratified by both groups.

The AMFA or IBT can submit a request for a Single Transporter System at anytime to determine the reprentation rights, or better phrased " representation responsibility" of the combined group. AMFA would have filed long ago except the Membership let it be known that it would not tolerate AMFA doing so. The members felt it could negotiate more agressively with the Teamsters and didn't want to risk AMFA on AMFA negotiations giving them less. IBT will potentially file just to lay the political hand grenade in AMFA's lap and to cause internal strife while simutaneously saving a ton of money and resources for a group they will lose. The IBT can do so without there being any chance of a DFR lawsuit since they are not actually walking away from the AT mechanics, the NMB transfers repsonsibility. It does not matter if IBT files for arbitration before or after it files for STS. These are two separate and independent issues.

 

[AvTech04]

Does anybody really take you seriously?

As serious as your home christmas photo on your profile

 

[AvTech04]

Look, as a reply to all, I'm not making these numbers up. The schedule is available for everyone to view on SWAlife... It's not my fault that you believe you managers over what's on paper... First AT plane went on on FEB 20th due out on April 15th and there are only 2 lines scheduled. As far as the international reservation system, yes, SWA does own one, it's called AirTran, and it only functions with the AT system, hence the reason SWA is taking more domestic routes from AT and stacking AT with the international routes.. Hawaii is not an international destination, and isn't it you guys that say that management makes all these promises and never keeps them??

So far, Madman has been the most accurate in the probable outcome of our current situation, I don't know who he is, but he's been right on par.

 

[swamt]

If the IBT files for a determination of Single Transporter System with the NMB and the decision from the NMB is that SWA and AT are indeed a Single Transporter System they will then determine which Union has the representation rights to the class and craft of aircraft mechanic. This must be done because the RLA only allows one union to represent any particular class and craft within a Single Transporter System. If there are not enough IBT cards submitted to the NMB requesting that a representation election be conducted then AMFA will be declared the representing union of the entire class and craft of mechanics and related because there are 1700 SWA and only 375 AT mechanics. The NMB assumes when there are not enough cards asking for a representation vote then the union representing the majority of the combined group to be the rightful representative of the combined group. AMFA will then represent the SWA mechanics under their current CBA and the AT mechanics under their CBA. The CBA's and groups will be represented separately by AMFA until the SLI and Transitions Agreements are ratified by both groups.

The AMFA or IBT can submit a request for a Single Transporter System at anytime to determine the reprentation rights, or better phrased " representation responsibility" of the combined group. AMFA would have filed long ago except the Membership let it be known that it would not tolerate AMFA doing so. The members felt it could negotiate more agressively with the Teamsters and didn't want to risk AMFA on AMFA negotiations giving them less. IBT will potentially file just to lay the political hand grenade in AMFA's lap and to cause internal strife while simutaneously saving a ton of money and resources for a group they will lose. The IBT can do so without there being any chance of a DFR lawsuit since they are not actually walking away from the AT mechanics, the NMB transfers repsonsibility. It does not matter if IBT files for arbitration before or after it files for STS. These are two separate and independent issues.

In my previous post I may have been a little vague. When I said that the IBT abandons the AT guys, I didn't mean that they would go unrepresented. Just saying that the IBT will abandon them just to try and get back at the SWA/AMFA mechanics by dropping it in their lap. Just another move by the IBT looking out for their own interest and not their members. Besides, AMFA is well prepared if the IBT does in fact take such a route. The IBT will only be hurting their membership by dragging this out with their political agenda. I still hope we can get through this without arbitration as well as without all the political drama from the IBT. I also think by them showing up for the last meeting showed they too want to get this done and over with and move on.

 

[swamt]

Has anyone heard anything since AMFA's last offer on the 23rd? Been pretty quiet from the nego side of things.

 

[lineguy]

Look, as a reply to all, I'm not making these numbers up. The schedule is available for everyone to view on SWAlife... It's not my fault that you believe you managers over what's on paper... First AT plane went on on FEB 20th due out on April 15th and there are only 2 lines scheduled. As far as the international reservation system, yes, SWA does own one, it's called AirTran, and it only functions with the AT system, hence the reason SWA is taking more domestic routes from AT and stacking AT with the international routes.. Hawaii is not an international destination, and isn't it you guys that say that management makes all these promises and never keeps them??

So far, Madman has been the most accurate in the probable outcome of our current situation, I don't know who he is, but he's been right on par.

It's just kinda sad watching you post what you want to believe will happen.

 

[MadMan337]

In my previous post I may have been a little vague. When I said that the IBT abandons the AT guys, I didn't mean that they would go unrepresented. Just saying that the IBT will abandon them just to try and get back at the SWA/AMFA mechanics by dropping it in their lap. Just another move by the IBT looking out for their own interest and not their members. Besides, AMFA is well prepared if the IBT does in fact take such a route. The IBT will only be hurting their membership by dragging this out with their political agenda. I still hope we can get through this without arbitration as well as without all the political drama from the IBT. I also think by them showing up for the last meeting showed they too want to get this done and over with and move on.

You posted that the AT mechanics could not become AMFA until we are under one CBA and the seniority list is integrated. That is not correct.

 

[MadMan337]

Has anyone heard anything since AMFA's last offer on the 23rd? Been pretty quiet from the nego side of things.

IBT has notified the company that they will contact them sometime in mid March. They are busy at Horizon Air where they are currently conducting a representation vote between AMFA and IBT. Voting ends in mid March. So much for a speedy outcome.

 

[swamt]

You posted that the AT mechanics could not become AMFA until we are under one CBA and the seniority list is integrated. That is not correct.

Can you point me to where I could find this information please? We were told this a little while back and I would like to confirm it if possible. I will be more than willing to retract my statement if we were in fact misinformed, thx.

 

[swamt]

IBT has notified the company that they will contact them sometime in mid March. They are busy at Horizon Air where they are currently conducting a representation vote between AMFA and IBT. Voting ends in mid March. So much for a speedy outcome.

I find it extremely hard to believe with the size of the IBT that they don't have enough IBT officers to spread out to handle 2 things at the same time. AMFA is a great deal smaller and they are pressing on as usual and they too have the Horizon Air representational election to deal with. Not saying I don't believe your post, because I do. I just think they are stalling. We don't hear AMFA saying they need to put the SWA/AT integration on hold do to the very same election going on at Horizon. Sorry but it just sounds like another fishy IBT move.

 

[POBIT]

I agree with swamt. The IBT cant file for arbitration then dump AT. They will slow this negotiation to a halt in hopes the company will file for arbitration.

 

[swamt]

I agree with swamt. The IBT cant file for arbitration then dump AT. They will slow this negotiation to a halt in hopes the company will file for arbitration.

And when this does happen, then the ibt can say "we didn't file for arbitration, the company (SWA) did" and try to wash their hands of it.
You know what? I'm tired of this hee hawing around. Tired of waiting on the ibt to make a decision rather than to allow or not allow further nego with the AT comte. They have the current offer from AMFA. As I have stated before, the 4 years boost is my lowest I will go, as far as I am concerned, as well as many others. Keep in mind that this was the minimum increase of boost that the AT guys accepted overwhelmingly by over 80%. With the recent stalling tactics by the ibt, I honestly think it's time to send across the table the final, best, and last offer. Put the ball in their hands. Force them to make the decision. I am sick and tired of being nice, it's time to act AMFA, push fwd with a last and final offer. If it goes to arbitration, then it goes to arbitration. I know we all don't really want that to happen, but it is what it is, with the ibt playing their games. The majority of the membership has said they will not accept anything less than the current 4 yrs being offered. It's time to send the final offer for a vote. Let's keep moving fwd. not stalling out like the ibt wants to happen.
Does anyone else feel the same way?

 

[AvTech04]

And when this does happen, then the ibt can say "we didn't file for arbitration, the company (SWA) did" and try to wash their hands of it.
You know what? I'm tired of this hee hawing around. Tired of waiting on the ibt to make a decision rather than to allow or not allow further nego with the AT comte. They have the current offer from AMFA. As I have stated before, the 4 years boost is my lowest I will go, as far as I am concerned, as well as many others. Keep in mind that this was the minimum increase of boost that the AT guys accepted overwhelmingly by over 80%. With the recent stalling tactics by the ibt, I honestly think it's time to send across the table the final, best, and last offer. Put the ball in their hands. Force them to make the decision. I am sick and tired of being nice, it's time to act AMFA, push fwd with a last and final offer. If it goes to arbitration, then it goes to arbitration. I know we all don't really want that to happen, but it is what it is, with the ibt playing their games. The majority of the membership has said they will not accept anything less than the current 4 yrs being offered. It's time to send the final offer for a vote. Let's keep moving fwd. not stalling out like the ibt wants to happen.
Does anyone else feel the same way?

You have to keep in mind that tha AT mechs voted overwhelmingly for the protected slots and the LOA, not the 70% or 4 years... They were being feed that protections over the seniority loss and a lot of people were okay with giving some seniority as long as they were protected.. I personally disagreed with it, it was too much of a boost and the LOA's and protected slots defeated the purpose of a union. But that's neither here nor there, we're passed that and I can almost guarantee you that the 4 years won't fly with a lot of AT folks, I'm hearing and seeing a lot more no votes than before so if it were to get voted on then it would definitely not be overwhelming on either direction...

 

[AvTech04]

It's just kinda sad watching you post what you want to believe will happen.

I can assure you, it's not anywhere near as sad as the truth when it comes barreling down.. You can keep all the wise cracks up, they don't bother me, it's actually quite entertaining. It's brings a certain, Neanderthalism to the forum whenever you post.

 

[lineguy]

I can assure you, it's not anywhere near as sad as the truth when it comes barreling down.. You can keep all the wise cracks up, they don't bother me, it's actually quite entertaining. It's brings a certain, Neanderthalism to the forum whenever you post.

Ouch, that almost hurt. But really, we're supposed to believe what you predict even though it flys in the face of what GK has publically stated in a press release? You're living in a dreamland. It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that Southwest needs the 717's even though GK says we don't. Others from the inside post the timeline for the AT conversions is being moved up and you can't accept that either. Time to face reality.