Hey AvTech, what draws you to the probability of arbitration? We were told the AT Comte was pretty happy with the new offer and how AMFA has moved in the right direction. I'd hate to see it go that far but, I guess it's out of or hands at this point. Is this what the IBT has desided? Hate to see it, but, it is what it is...
IBT No Show Forum
- Thread starter swamt
- Start date
Can anyone tell me why we have to go weeks before our respected cmmt. meet just to talk? Why can't they pick up the phone, use the fax, video conference, Skype, email, Facebook anything. Why can't they talk 2 or 3 times a week until we get this gone?
S
Swadl
Guest
AVTech04- Is the current offer being shown to all your members for them to decide what they want? Or is it the few that get to make the decision for everyone? Cause that sounds like the IBT to me. I know our members who went to the meeting all had a say in what we wanted and what we were willing to give. I'm just curious as I've talked to quite a bit of AT mechanics over the last year and there seniority ran from your #2 down to real junior mechanic and they all said they are willing to take a hit in seniority (DOC) from 30%-40%. Only 1 of the guys said he was only willing to take a 25% cut and he was semi junior. Anyway have a great day.
Not sure what your talking about unless you have already heard of a meeting date. But I do agree with your post as far as talking several times per week. C'mon guys, let's get the cmtes together and get this done.
AvTech04
Senior
What was the date on above said article?? I explicitly remember Swamt posting the identical article on the last thread we had, before it was removed, prior to pilot vote but just after the the ALPA MEC decides 7 to 1 not to put the first company offer out for vote... I wouldn't think GK is the kind of guy who needs to repeat himself much less "quote" himself to the same identical media groups.. Just saying.
AvTech04
Senior
To the rest, I'd like to fill you all in with all I know or have heard but I was specifically instructed not to and out of respect for that person, I'm not going to. I will agree with SWADL, about the percentage, but now its anyone's ball game. Last thing I'll say, without saying too much, is that I believe that this will go to arbitration and no one, not SWA nor AT should fear any outcome from it. Everyone needs to continue pressing their issues and clarifying your questions with your representatives, you're seriously doing a great job with suggestions and your questions.
27 Feb 2012
Wall street journal Online paysite
Headline "Southwest Takes A Breather"
I copied the whole article but cant post it due to copyright.
It starts off all about fuel prices on the rise.
The article shows a photo that mentions where he spoke in atlanta last month.
Then goes on about an interview in chicago where he was attending an employee event.(maybe the MTTF). He talks about the 800s and the 737 max.
Then the part I posted about the 717s was at the end of the article. It never said if those statements were at any other time than that chicago interview. The way it is writen, it seems that all the remarks were made recently in chicago.
But who knows.
Just search the headline and you will find the story. you need a subscription to read the whole article today but it will be available on other sites in a couple days.
It caught me off guard when I read it.
Why do this if it is going to arbitration like you say it is ?
S
Swadl
Guest
Because you never know
That's correct. Keep giving the cmte members all your ideas and info. as well as questions. Never give up guys. The more people that get involved and speak up, the more they will be heard. Involvement is what will in fact get us there outside of arbitration. Keep up the good work. The minute we stop giving input then the upper sholons will try to take the easy way out and go with arbitration. I still think this will get done without a 3rd party ruling for us. Hopefully we will hear something soon. Good luck to all...
This is the WSJ article:
With fuel prices on the march again, Southwest Airlines Co. is taking a pause after a 41-year expansion that has taken it to the brink of the global industry's top 10 by traffic.
A year ago, the airline and its rivals faced the worrisome prospect of jet fuel rising to $3.30 a gallon, but the industry successfully managed to pass on most of the increases through higher fares.
"We prepared for $3.30, and now we're going to have to be prepared for $3.50," said Chief Executive Gary Kelly in an interview in Chicago, where he was attending an employee event at what is now the airline's busiest market.
Southwest is keeping its aircraft fleet flat at around 700 planes until it reaches its investment-return target of 15%, though it will boost capacity by introducing larger planes and adding extra seats on existing aircraft.
While demand remains robust, Mr. Kelly concedes that Southwest will have to look at "schedule adjustments" if it fails to secure cost savings and push through higher fares to counter fuel costs.
The fuel challenge comes as Mr. Kelly continues to assimilate discounter AirTran Airways and face off against larger legacy airlines that restructured and then merged. The AirTran deal boosted Southwest's scale by around 20% in one swoop, and also gave it access for the first time to international markets.
Southwest has been limited to domestic routes because of an outdated reservations system that Mr. Kelly says it is still "years away" from replacing, as well as union contracts that kept it focused on the Lower 48 states.
Meanwhile, new rivals such as JetBlue Airways Corp. and Spirit Airlines Inc. have grown quickly into markets from the U.S. to Mexico and the Caribbean.
But Mr. Kelly seems unhurried about shifting his focus from domestic routes, where he sees potential to add "hundreds of planes"—though not as many as 500—before it runs out of growth opportunities in the Lower 48. Services to Hawaii, Alaska, Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean are all seen as on the horizon, but Mr. Kelly views the core domestic market as far from saturated.
The big prize from AirTran was access to Atlanta, the busiest airport in the U.S., and it is also expanding its presence in the New York area, and eyeing further expansion in Washington, D.C.
AirTran, which Southwest acquired last May, is expected to generate $400 million to $500 million in revenue synergies, with much of that sum coming from the smaller carrier's extensive network out of Atlanta. Mr. Kelly said the deal is adding 22 cities to the 72 that Southwest already serves and is moving the strictly domestic airline into some overseas destinations in Mexico and the Caribbean.
It is one of several strategic cards in hand that Mr. Kelly hopes will boost revenue by nearly $500 million over the next few years.
In April, the first of 100 larger, more fuel-efficient Boeing Co. 737-800s will arrive, and Southwest is also the launch customer for the revamped Max version of the airplane, part of a $19 billion order announced last December.
The Max jets are due to start arriving in 2017, and though Boeing and rival Airbus have seen recent new aircraft programs running several years late, Mr. Kelly believes the U.S. company may even come in ahead of time after learning from past mistakes.
Beyond that, Mr. Kelly said, Southwest will have opportunities to grow from Dallas Love Field in 2014 upon the expiration of a federal law that limited the carrier to serving only Texas and eight nearby states nonstop with flights from its home airport.
Mr. Kelly said the company also has many opportunities to improve its labor productivity, although many of those potential changes would need to take place within the confines of union labor negotiations.
One piece of AirTran he wants to jettison is that airline's 88 smaller Boeing 717 planes.
"We tried to look for a purpose for the 717s that was different than for the 737s," Mr. Kelly said. "We couldn't find one."
But AirTran's leases on those planes don't begin expiring until 2017 and run to 2024. So Southwest has reached agreement with Boeing—from whom it leases the aircraft—to try to place the planes elsewhere.
"If we can't find a home for them, we'll fly them and pay for them, or not fly them and pay for them," he said.
Write to Susan Carey at susan.carey@wsj.com and Doug Cameron at doug.cameron@dowjones.com
With fuel prices on the march again, Southwest Airlines Co. is taking a pause after a 41-year expansion that has taken it to the brink of the global industry's top 10 by traffic.
A year ago, the airline and its rivals faced the worrisome prospect of jet fuel rising to $3.30 a gallon, but the industry successfully managed to pass on most of the increases through higher fares.
"We prepared for $3.30, and now we're going to have to be prepared for $3.50," said Chief Executive Gary Kelly in an interview in Chicago, where he was attending an employee event at what is now the airline's busiest market.
Southwest is keeping its aircraft fleet flat at around 700 planes until it reaches its investment-return target of 15%, though it will boost capacity by introducing larger planes and adding extra seats on existing aircraft.
While demand remains robust, Mr. Kelly concedes that Southwest will have to look at "schedule adjustments" if it fails to secure cost savings and push through higher fares to counter fuel costs.
The fuel challenge comes as Mr. Kelly continues to assimilate discounter AirTran Airways and face off against larger legacy airlines that restructured and then merged. The AirTran deal boosted Southwest's scale by around 20% in one swoop, and also gave it access for the first time to international markets.
Southwest has been limited to domestic routes because of an outdated reservations system that Mr. Kelly says it is still "years away" from replacing, as well as union contracts that kept it focused on the Lower 48 states.
Meanwhile, new rivals such as JetBlue Airways Corp. and Spirit Airlines Inc. have grown quickly into markets from the U.S. to Mexico and the Caribbean.
But Mr. Kelly seems unhurried about shifting his focus from domestic routes, where he sees potential to add "hundreds of planes"—though not as many as 500—before it runs out of growth opportunities in the Lower 48. Services to Hawaii, Alaska, Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean are all seen as on the horizon, but Mr. Kelly views the core domestic market as far from saturated.
The big prize from AirTran was access to Atlanta, the busiest airport in the U.S., and it is also expanding its presence in the New York area, and eyeing further expansion in Washington, D.C.
AirTran, which Southwest acquired last May, is expected to generate $400 million to $500 million in revenue synergies, with much of that sum coming from the smaller carrier's extensive network out of Atlanta. Mr. Kelly said the deal is adding 22 cities to the 72 that Southwest already serves and is moving the strictly domestic airline into some overseas destinations in Mexico and the Caribbean.
It is one of several strategic cards in hand that Mr. Kelly hopes will boost revenue by nearly $500 million over the next few years.
In April, the first of 100 larger, more fuel-efficient Boeing Co. 737-800s will arrive, and Southwest is also the launch customer for the revamped Max version of the airplane, part of a $19 billion order announced last December.
The Max jets are due to start arriving in 2017, and though Boeing and rival Airbus have seen recent new aircraft programs running several years late, Mr. Kelly believes the U.S. company may even come in ahead of time after learning from past mistakes.
Beyond that, Mr. Kelly said, Southwest will have opportunities to grow from Dallas Love Field in 2014 upon the expiration of a federal law that limited the carrier to serving only Texas and eight nearby states nonstop with flights from its home airport.
Mr. Kelly said the company also has many opportunities to improve its labor productivity, although many of those potential changes would need to take place within the confines of union labor negotiations.
One piece of AirTran he wants to jettison is that airline's 88 smaller Boeing 717 planes.
"We tried to look for a purpose for the 717s that was different than for the 737s," Mr. Kelly said. "We couldn't find one."
But AirTran's leases on those planes don't begin expiring until 2017 and run to 2024. So Southwest has reached agreement with Boeing—from whom it leases the aircraft—to try to place the planes elsewhere.
"If we can't find a home for them, we'll fly them and pay for them, or not fly them and pay for them," he said.
Write to Susan Carey at susan.carey@wsj.com and Doug Cameron at doug.cameron@dowjones.com
AvTech04
Senior
Thanks for the update, this sounds like it's a lot of quotes over a period of different meetings, not just one. But never the less, it's not alarming to anyone. We all knew the 717's expiration date's, we actually hoped SWA would use them to strike a deal with boeing for more -800's or MAX airplanes.. It's the most feasible alternative since SWA isn't keeping a pretty good bit of AT's 717 major markets.. Again, no shock there, this was already expected. Hell, even Hirshman told us before the date of closing that they probably weren't going to keep them for too long.
What I find the most interesting about this article is what I Bolded and underlined above.. I remember similar statements made to the AA and Delta employees just prior to bankruptcy... It sounds to me like the fear monger here is the CEO himself. Read it carefully, as contract negotiations are coming up.. Don't be surprised if GK asks for concessions from SWA labor groups and soon, regardless if AT is assimilated or not! Otherwise, it's probable that bankruptcy and a reorganization is in order for all of us within the next 5 years, giving SWA some relief from it's labor agreements and allowing them to restructure without having to bring outsourced work in-house first..
This article just has the adverse effect to resolving our SLI issues prior to arbitration. From my interpretation of this article, it makes me want to give less and less seniority. Maybe that'e GK's goal, keep us separated so he could dismantle the higher cost group, or maybe strike fear into all of us to get this done and concede in the labor agreements without resistance... I really couldn't say for sure, but, like i said above, that one statement scares me more than any other in this post..
-It's possible. Labor agreements are not known for being cost saving and or efficient. NO union ever negotiates for its members to do more work for the same money, and we don't care if the company is profitable or not just as long as seniority is good before the layoff start! That's Why Airlines always rip up our Labor Contracts in court!
Avtech04,
Bankruptcy? Connsessions ? Really?
Now I am LMFAO
Swa has the best balance sheet in the industry.
We don't have huge unfunded pensions.
We have fully funded 401k and profit shareing accounts.
The money is already there.
The rest of the airlines were losing hundreds of millons and some billions year for a decade before filling for bankruptcy.
This airline has made profits for decades.
You are clueless about this company.
You are not even amfa yet but are talking consessions.
Who is fear mongering now.
How about we see a few years of hundreds of millions in losses before you throw in towel.
Bankruptcy? Connsessions ? Really?
Now I am LMFAO
Swa has the best balance sheet in the industry.
We don't have huge unfunded pensions.
We have fully funded 401k and profit shareing accounts.
The money is already there.
The rest of the airlines were losing hundreds of millons and some billions year for a decade before filling for bankruptcy.
This airline has made profits for decades.
You are clueless about this company.
You are not even amfa yet but are talking consessions.
Who is fear mongering now.
How about we see a few years of hundreds of millions in losses before you throw in towel.
Similar threads
