IBT No Show Forum

[swamt]

Airtran mechanics- you gave up your seniority and requested some temporary protection-it was voted down. Stop posting.

Why are you still posting sir? Per your very own post, YOU, should stop posting. Why havent you stopped? Oh, wait, you say the AT folks gave up senority, HaHA!! Where do you see that? They have been screamin DOH since the very start. You need to get a clue and move on, the AT guys are not even listening to you.
Keep posting AT guys, just to iritate this dumb-ass. Post-away-boys...

 

[swamt]

So what if we don't look like you, so what if we didn't do the things you did. Does that mean we are any less? I think not, we should all want the same things. There are always gonna be some one more senior unless you are top dog. So ask yourself will DOH hurt anyone or anything?

Yupper, sur will. Go back to your thinking relm...

 

[swamt]

Now, back to the subject. Has anyone heard anything from the teamsters/ibt after the offer by AMFA? I know they were asking for it to be in writing, did they recieve it in writing? Been kind of quiet over the weekend. See you all next week. Later...

 

[swaboeingonly]

Were you happy about it? Who negotiated you guys ? And if you came to work your profit sharing could have been more.
AMFA does not own stock in swa.

If I came to work? I come to work everyday, except the 7 weeks a year they give me for vacation and floating holidays. You don't know me then do you! I have words for you I can't speak here and you are a genius! I didn't know AMFA didn't own stock in SWA, God are you for real? YOU JUST DON'T GET IT! I don't work for AMFA, I work for SWA...stupid!

As far as shoe on the other foot, OK, you are a 12 year SWA mech and SWA just bought AT. You are truly good with their 12+ year mechs having time on you when it was your hard work that made this company solid and stable enough to buy AT to begin with and offer the same stability as well as outstanding pay and benefits? I know how you will answer on this board and because you aren't in my shoes but you do some soul searching and you would see it our way! DON'T LIE!

 

[swaboeingonly]

Southwest mechanics reject seniority plan


DALLAS - Southwest Airlines mechanics rejected a plan for combining their seniority list with that of mechanics at AirTran Airways, complicating Southwest's job of combining the two airlines.

The dispute could go to arbitration, although Southwest on Tuesday held out the hope that the two labor groups could come together on their own.

Seniority often determines job assignments and pay in the airline industry.

The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which represents about 1,600 Southwest mechanics, declined to release the vote count. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, which represents about 400 AirTran mechanics, said that group approved the deal 278-42.

AMFA spokesman Sidney "Louie" Key said the agreement failed because of disagreements over how long workers in certain locations would be protected from layoffs if jobs were reduced. AMFA wanted protection for Southwest workers in Baltimore and Orlando, Fla., where maintenance stations for the airlines overlap, and the Teamsters wanted the same for AirTran workers in previously all-AirTran locations such as Atlanta.

Key accused the Teamsters of reneging on a deal under which protection of both groups would expire in 2016.

In a statement, the director of the Teamsters' airline division, David Bourne, said it was "unfortunate that our members at AirTran will now have to wait a while longer in order to gain the benefits of a merged seniority list and (a single) collective bargaining agreement."

The unions have clashed before at Southwest. The Teamsters represented the airline's mechanics until being ousted by AMFA in January 2003, and recently AMFA accused the Teamsters of campaigning to win those workers back.

Southwest said the next step would be a filing for arbitration by AMFA and the Teamsters, which represents about 400 AirTran mechanics.

Southwest Airlines Co. bought AirTran for $1.4 billion last year.

Pilots and flight attendants at the two airlines have approved seniority-combination agreements. Several groups of ground workers are still negotiating.

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

[swaboeingonly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp-W4JwWOwg

Too funny not to share!

 

[swamt]

The following para is from an article about the US and AW pilots integration and union election. It is from "The Street" from an article titled "Us Airways Pilot Conflict Dominates Union Election". Not posting pro SWA or pro AT just posting to show everybody that not all arbitrators give DOH. They really do look at the entire package that the groups are getting before making their decision. It can in fact go either way for either airline. This is a basic staple if you ask me. Just FYI for those that still think the arbitrator will give DOH. And this is the most recent one:

Although east pilot leaders backed Nicolau's appointment as arbitrator, then refused his request to compromise on date-of-hire seniority, few envisioned his eventual ruling. The most controversial component, in an example of why people would oppose an arbitration ruling after agreeing to arbitration, places a 56-year-old pilot with 17 years at US Airways, never laid off, behind a 35-year-old America West pilot with a few months on the job (not Hummel and Ferguson, despite the similarities in age). In hundreds of similar cases, US Airways pilots with 15 or more years at the carrier went behind America West pilots with just a few years.

Here's the link if you want to read the entire article;
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/11433876/1/us-airways-pilot-conflict-dominates-union-election.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[swamt]

Well I don't know what you or most SW mechanics thought, but our AMFA negotiating committee must have thought so, or they would have negotiated with realistic numbers months ago.

The last offer they gave before the company took over was a 12 year boost to us and they get a few extra bucks in there paychecks.

(not all on the amfa side voted for the 12 year offer but it was a majority)

From 12 years to now a mere 4 year. AMFA made a 66% plus movement off the 12 yrs. or 2/3rds, however you want to look at it. I personally thought the 12 years was outrageous, but like you said the majority did vote for it. Glad to see the majority come to more realistic number now. Don't take the mere 4 statement above personal, it mainly points out a mere 4 compared to the rediculous 12 year offer before. Although I will say the 12 year looks like the pilots deal above, which is almost a staple, and not fair...

 

[WNMECH]

Although I will say the 12 year looks like the pilots deal above, which is almost a staple, and not fair...

I believe you are misunderstanding the Nicolau award in the US/AMW merger.
It was not a staple and it was not DOH.
It was a relative senority shuffle (dovetail).
If an arbitrator did that to us, you could see 7-8 year AT mechs ahead of 10 year SWA mechs.
In the Nicolau award, the group of east pilots with many more years of senority were straight shuffled with west pilots with much less senority that is why the east pilots are fighting to keep the award from being implemented.

Now in the SWA/AT acquisition, the swa pilots gained an average of 3 years senority in their deal with the AT pilots and the SWA flight attendants gained 2.5 years on the At FAs.
Those were not staples either.

So I don't see where you are seeing any type of staple in either the US merger or the AT acquisition.

It would ony have been a staple if AT mechs took a 12 year hit.

 

[WNMECH]

Clearly if an arbitrator ruled against SWA mechanics like the Nicolau award, then you would get the same result as the East/west pilots fight.
We would not be voting in any transition agreement or a joint CBA for a long time and the company would have a legal standoff on their hands with AMFA.
That would leave tha AT mechanics without our contract protections for a very long time.
We have language that states no one on our contract can be laid off while SWA is outsourceing work. And I am not talking about the LOA.
The AT mechanics do not have this protection.
If SWA decides they need to lay anyone off, it will have it come from the AT side only while they continue to outsource work.

If the company wants to pick a fight with us by forcing an arbitration award,
they may just get one.

And the AT mechanics may suffer the fallout.

 

[swa757]

I believe that at this point there are two options: 1) AMFA proposing 4 years 2) Arbitration
I have been hearing that AMFA has been talking about adding 4 years for all SWA employees. I think this is a proposal that if moved forward will pass on the SWA side. I do however think anything less than 4 years will not pass.
If we go to arbitration I truly believe that there will be layoffs with the fuel prices rising like they are. I also believe that the AirTran employees will be the ones who are laid off (per our contract protection).
I hope that we can all agree that 4 years may not be perfect (and to be honest I would personally like more) however it is better than the original offer and I think it is fair for both sides. I also think it will save our future counter parts at AirTran from being laid off.

As the "NO" vote showed us that the original proposal was NOT FAIR for SWA and that there is true solidarity among SWA which allows us to vote no for fences and segregation of MCO and BWI by supporting our coworkers at these two stations.

 

[swamt]

I believe you are misunderstanding the Nicolau award in the US/AMW merger.
It was not a staple and it was not DOH.
It was a relative senority shuffle (dovetail).
If an arbitrator did that to us, you could see 7-8 year AT mechs ahead of 10 year SWA mechs.
In the Nicolau award, the group of east pilots with many more years of senority were straight shuffled with west pilots with much less senority that is why the east pilots are fighting to keep the award from being implemented.

Now in the SWA/AT acquisition, the swa pilots gained an average of 3 years senority in their deal with the AT pilots and the SWA flight attendants gained 2.5 years on the At FAs.
Those were not staples either.

So I don't see where you are seeing any type of staple in either the US merger or the AT acquisition.

It would ony have been a staple if AT mechs took a 12 year hit.

Ok I would believe that over the pilots postings in news releases. I see now maybe they were padding what the ruling really was.
Anyone heard anything yet? Any updates?

 

[WNMECH]

Several interesting articles out today.
Read the wall street journal article titled (Southwest Takes a Breather).
Also read business journal articie (Southwest Airlines slows expansion plans)

The 717s are going away.
No good news in these reports for AT mechanics unless they get on our AMFA contract.

Sample:
Mr. Kelly said the company also has many opportunities to improve its labor productivity, although many of those potential changes would need to take place within the confines of union labor negotiations.

One piece of AirTran he wants to jettison is that airline's 88 smaller Boeing 717 planes.

"We tried to look for a purpose for the 717s that was different than for the 737s," Mr. Kelly said. "We couldn't find one." But AirTran's leases on those planes don't begin expiring until 2017 and run to 2024. So Southwest has reached agreement with Boeing—from whom it leases the aircraft—to try to place the planes elsewhere.

"If we can't find a home for them, we'll fly them and pay for them, or not fly them and pay for them," he said

 

[AvTech04]

LMAFO... I Love the fear mongering! You guys are doing a great job, keep up the good work!

BTW: I'll give you an update; it sounds like this is probably going to arbitration.. I guess we'll see who's right or wrong here 😀

 

[WNMECH]

So you think Gary Kelly is lying to the Wall Street Journal?
Ask your pilots about fear mongering.