I only attended 3 info meetings and the Committee did not recommend a NO vote. Unless, when one of the Committee Members was asked how he was going to vote he said he was voting no is considered "Committee's advise". I have no idea what was said at all other meetings but I do know that AMFA legal did not recommend a no vote at any of the meetings. I know two committee members that are voting yes so why dont you show your support for the Union and vote yes.
IBT No Show Forum
- Thread starter swamt
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Get those guys on the AT committee and it's a done deal.
grmach1
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Hey George I don't know what meetings you went to but I think your hearing is selective. They have recommended a no vote at every UNION meeting I went to and or heard of. Were there people with blue uniforms in your meetings? It sure doesn't sound like it.
Whatever you want to believe is fine. We heard one committee member from Local 18 expressing his opinion. The hardest thing to communicate is the truth, it's often rejected and ignored when it's not popular or desirable.
In the meetings, a member who was in alll of them, not just the one you refereed to, did go from 25% to 10% but came back again with a 35% increase in SWA mechanics seniority if SWA committee would drop the fencing. The AMFA committee refused. That is when AT came back during the next set of meetings some weeks later and said if AMFA would not drop the fencing then the AT committee would have no choice but to neutralize it and requiring the same protections for their stations. If AMFA would not then that was a none starter..
AMFA was given every opportunity to drop the fencing and they refused,not the company and it was AMFA who refused the 35% increase in your seniority not the company. I have talked to every committee member and to the last one, they would have agreed on the day they proposed the 35%
to agree to it and take to vote.
Your committee or elements within it, turned it down. I would just like for you to go ask each and everyone of them why they turned down that offer.I believe you will find out,some of them are talking out of both sides of their mouths.Its the only answer,or they were not paying attention or they have a total different agenda. They, at least some of them, were or/ are running for one position or another.I just want to point this out not start a fight,just check it out.
If the AMFA committee was strong armed by the company to bring this to vote,why was it not told to the AT committee by AMFA and why was the AT committee not strong armed. Instead AMFA said they were for the agreement and signed or initialed the Agreement and said they simply needed time to work on the LOA,s in December.
I do not want to pick a fight ,but this is serious stuff and we must be truthful and honest between mechanics. There are to many family's and lives depending on this vote to bullshit about the facts and positions,at least to me it is.The truth is the truth.
If you turn this down,which I hope you don't,then we are going to arbitration,unless your committee comes back to the table during the arbitration protocol meetings set up for the end of Feb and proposes the 25-35 %. It has been taken out of the AT committees hands and given to the local and IBT international. You will not see that committee again,you will face the IBT international. They have but one goal in mind,and that is not the best interest of you or me but theirs.They believe after sitting in those past meeting that the AMFA committee has no intentions of settling this but through arbitration or hoping the AT mechanics will give up more. That will not happen. The local and the IBT has taken to much heat by AMFA going to Horizon AIR a airline AMFA wants and telling their mechanics"see what the IBT did to AIRTRAN and their seniority with SWA". The IBT has but one answer and that is to go to arbitration and win it. This is not BS it is the fact--so reconsider or at least tell your committee to be up front with you and to ,if voted down,go in with the 25-35% proposal and lets move on.The Chief steward is saying that he doubts the IBT will let the AT mechanics vote again and take the matter to arbitration after the protocol meeting. If you want the 25-35 % tell your committee to push it at the protocol with IBT and let the AT mechanics know it was proposed so we will push for that and not arbitration.
AMFA was given every opportunity to drop the fencing and they refused,not the company and it was AMFA who refused the 35% increase in your seniority not the company. I have talked to every committee member and to the last one, they would have agreed on the day they proposed the 35%
to agree to it and take to vote.
Your committee or elements within it, turned it down. I would just like for you to go ask each and everyone of them why they turned down that offer.I believe you will find out,some of them are talking out of both sides of their mouths.Its the only answer,or they were not paying attention or they have a total different agenda. They, at least some of them, were or/ are running for one position or another.I just want to point this out not start a fight,just check it out.
If the AMFA committee was strong armed by the company to bring this to vote,why was it not told to the AT committee by AMFA and why was the AT committee not strong armed. Instead AMFA said they were for the agreement and signed or initialed the Agreement and said they simply needed time to work on the LOA,s in December.
I do not want to pick a fight ,but this is serious stuff and we must be truthful and honest between mechanics. There are to many family's and lives depending on this vote to bullshit about the facts and positions,at least to me it is.The truth is the truth.
If you turn this down,which I hope you don't,then we are going to arbitration,unless your committee comes back to the table during the arbitration protocol meetings set up for the end of Feb and proposes the 25-35 %. It has been taken out of the AT committees hands and given to the local and IBT international. You will not see that committee again,you will face the IBT international. They have but one goal in mind,and that is not the best interest of you or me but theirs.They believe after sitting in those past meeting that the AMFA committee has no intentions of settling this but through arbitration or hoping the AT mechanics will give up more. That will not happen. The local and the IBT has taken to much heat by AMFA going to Horizon AIR a airline AMFA wants and telling their mechanics"see what the IBT did to AIRTRAN and their seniority with SWA". The IBT has but one answer and that is to go to arbitration and win it. This is not BS it is the fact--so reconsider or at least tell your committee to be up front with you and to ,if voted down,go in with the 25-35% proposal and lets move on.The Chief steward is saying that he doubts the IBT will let the AT mechanics vote again and take the matter to arbitration after the protocol meeting. If you want the 25-35 % tell your committee to push it at the protocol with IBT and let the AT mechanics know it was proposed so we will push for that and not arbitration.
A 25% reduction in AT seniority is very different than a 35% increase is SWA seniority. The 35% increase to SWA seniority is much less of a benefit to SWA mechanics than the 25% decrease to AT and would have never been accepted by SWA mechanics. The 35% increase when graphed is very similar to DOH so it's not much of an offer. AT offered the 35% and then said it was contingent upon acceptable fencing in MCO and BWI. Don't get me wrong it was negotiations and both sides were passing proposals that seemed to be either saying DOH or staple in different terms and not really moving towards each other. We have a proposal currently with a 70% increase and its going down in flames. I know just as you do that the IBT will not negotiate any longer and will only discuss arbitration in Feb. I really want this to be put behind us and get to work on Section 6 in August.
You are correct sir. This boost in senority, which was brought on from the teamsters, is a much lesser result for the SWA mechs than doing a % cut in AT senority. I have said this from day one. I would be much more in favor of a (as I have always said) 30% reduction in senority from the AT guys, rather than this 70% boost being offered. However, the fences still have to come down one way or another before the SWA mechs will vote this in. Or at least I will say before I will vote it in.
Sorry to hear the IBT is taking over the nego and you guys no longer have a say in nego. Very, very sad. If they do in fact push this to arbitration, I really do feel sorry for you guys. Their agenda is far away from working "for" the membership. They do in fact have their very own agendas. We have delt with the teamsters in the past, as you all know. We know when they are postering to get things to go their way. They will never learn and never change. After all they are the teamsters. They will do anything in there power to hurt AMFA at SWA. And in trying to do so will in fact hurt the AT mechanics by dragging this crap out. The entire airline industry is eye-balling this SWA and AT integration. The teamster propaganda will be very well known once this is all over with. Let the card drives continue...
Agree 100%.
grmach1
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I know the truth. I know what was said. I was there.......Period, but thanks for letting me believe what I want.
wow,, so much disagreement so late in the game... how is this SLI not going to arbirtration???
What needs to be done so late in this game to avoid Arbitration??? it seems farther away now than it was 4 months ago,, just my take,,,
What needs to be done so late in this game to avoid Arbitration??? it seems farther away now than it was 4 months ago,, just my take,,,
SWAMT,
The AT offered 35% increase in SWA seniority and the fences be removed. The AT com ask that MCO and BWI be brought back on the table because AMFA had in their previose proposal taken them off,"saying,they wished to discuss them after all the other srations ans seniority was taken care of. The AT comm. never requested that be fenced,they simply wanted the two stations being within the discussion and not left out. The AT comm. never preconditioned that they be fenced.
Why did the AMFA comm. not bring up an decrease after the proposal of an increase? The AT comm. requested a counter offer and AMFA came back with a 80% reduction with no fencing.The refused to come off that number.
The AT offered 35% increase in SWA seniority and the fences be removed. The AT com ask that MCO and BWI be brought back on the table because AMFA had in their previose proposal taken them off,"saying,they wished to discuss them after all the other srations ans seniority was taken care of. The AT comm. never requested that be fenced,they simply wanted the two stations being within the discussion and not left out. The AT comm. never preconditioned that they be fenced.
Why did the AMFA comm. not bring up an decrease after the proposal of an increase? The AT comm. requested a counter offer and AMFA came back with a 80% reduction with no fencing.The refused to come off that number.
Boosting our senority in comparison to cutting AT senority are very different. The majority at SWA prefer cutting rather than boosting. Your 80% red. with no fences listed above, I would be willing to bet the % could easily come down to the range we have been tossing around on here, say 25-35% range. I would even be willing to say AT could get the fences to stay for now, as long as there was a time period installed for them to come down eventually, say 5-10 yrs. These are just suggestions guys, not saying it's going to happen, but these are things that could be discussed at the table again. I will say this, "BOTH" sides better be willing to move next time at the table, otherwise it will be a very short lived re-nego. and off to arbitration we will have to go, which, in my opinion, none of us want, mechanics, employees, unions or the company. There is time to have this done, outside of arbitration, by April 2012. Just hope both sides are willing to move, not saying alot, but at least move. Guarrentee you one thing; if AMFA goes back to the table strong arming and not willing to show some movement they will walk out of nego. and wait for arbitration. So tread lightly, let's actually nego. because I feel this will in fact be our last and final chance to get something done prior to arbitration. However, I will predict that the company will once again step in and throw out the last and final offer and beg both sides to let the mechanics have their vote one last time before arbitration.
S
Swadl
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The day that this TA gets shot down, I urge bit sides to email and talk to their respective comte's to sit down and be respective to another and work out a better deal or same deal minus the fences.
FADECFAULT
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It's time to cut the polite BS. Put yourself in my shoes and you wouldn't be so kind either. This is a public forum- talking about real life issues, emotions WILL run high.
I don't think you've been reading the news lately but there's 4600 mechanics that are about to loose their jobs. That's why we are all on edge over OUR seniority.
You can carry on.. You have no vested interest so why bother posting?
ANYWAY
I've heard from two of our committee members that they are going to offer the same deal the FA's agreed on to amfa, or something similar. If amfa declines they are walking out and filing for arbitration.
I take these members words with a grain of salt, they seem to be doing whatever they want.
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