IBT No Show Forum

[MadMan337]

A valid reason for AT to not agree with a percentage or fixed years of decrease in seniority is the possibility of future mergers. An SLI agreement would permanently adjust their seniority to a new DOC and place them in peril of unjustly losing seniority to the incoming Mechanics. An example: 10 yr AT Mechanic with a DOC of 1/1/2002 is reduced by 4yrs, his new permanent DOC would be 1/1/2006. SWA merges with Brand X and Mechanics integrate on a straight DOC. Brand X Mechanic has a DOC of 1/1/2005. Brand X Mechanic will have seniority on the AT mechanic even though he does not actually have more years in DOC.

Some of you may not like the "boost" in seniority to the SWA mechanics ,but try to understand there are reasons for certain approaches and it is not random.

BTW, the AT Committee did not reject the verbal conceptual proposal from AMFA. They were willing to explore the concept and had to receive approval from IBT prior to an official response.

 

[At2001]

From what I have heard is that the AMFA committee was much more polite than the previous meeting and I want to thank you for that. My only question is will the mechanics on SWA side hired after May 2,2011 get boost as well or will they get date of hire as discussed in the previous agreement. This will soften the blow to what ever the final years may be. I realize there is very little wiggle room in the 4 years,but I am sure a counter is expected,hopefully realistic by IBT. What time today is the conference call,just wondering.

 

[MadMan337]

The AMFA conceptual proposal can be broken down into these basic components.

1. Add seniority to the SWA Mechanics' DOC.
2. Remove the AMFA LOA.
3. No fences.
4. MCO and BWI to be addressed through Company commitment in transition agreement.

 

[MadMan337]

From what I have heard is that the AMFA committee was much more polite than the previous meeting and I want to thank you for that. My only question is will the mechanics on SWA side hired after May 2,2011 get boost as well or will they get date of hire as discussed in the previous agreement. This will soften the blow to what ever the final years may be. I realize there is very little wiggle room in the 4 years,but I am sure a counter is expected,hopefully realistic by IBT. What time today is the conference call,just wondering.

In all prior discussions the boost only applied to mechanics on the seniority list prior to the date of financial close, I think that is May 2, 2011. I have not heard any intent to change that approach.

 

[Flman]

I think this is great movement I prefer % but if it goes by the way of years, 2 to 2 half years could work provided the company made some guatantees by way of the 4 line of maint. And some new station to open (denver) in the near future or remain open and expanded(Boston, Fort lauderdale, and Indianapolis)

 

[Airmech737]

From what I have heard is that the AMFA committee was much more polite than the previous meeting and I want to thank you for that. My only question is will the mechanics on SWA side hired after May 2,2011 get boost as well or will they get date of hire as discussed in the previous agreement. This will soften the blow to what ever the final years may be. I realize there is very little wiggle room in the 4 years,but I am sure a counter is expected,hopefully realistic by IBT. What time today is the conference call,just wondering.

To legally address you comment... Employees hired after May 2, 2011 will not be included into this adjustment. The process ensures such as every employee that hired on after such date (which is the date of closing) said employee knows that he is hiring in to newco or the new company (combined company). That is the reason you always see DOC as a stop marker. There should be an understanding that someone coming in after the date of purchase can not benefit from a previous action.

I had seen someone early talk about top out and the years would not work on that measure. This is only dealing with seniority. The pay is to fall with your years in the mechanic classification. Hence if you were a 5 year AT mechanic, the SWA got a four year increase... you were still a five year mechanic and by the way topping out under the SWA mechanic contract.

 

[WNMECH]

I am on record as saying I think a 4 year increase is a little high.
If the AT guys think so also then I hope they offer a counter instead of going straight to arbitration.

 

[WNMECH]

I am on record as saying I think a 4 year increase is a little high.
If the AT guys think so also then I hope they offer a counter instead of going straight to arbitration.

To clarify, just alittle high, but close.

 

[swamt]

I'm not trying to insults you guys I'm just saying that a good amount of our guys are in the 5-8 year range and 4 years would be 50% or more. I do appreciate the movement on you guys part. But if its more on a percentage based then the hit can be more evenly spread among members. Our side and your side would have to get some guaranteed from the company (4 LINE) then it might work.

Not taking it as an insult. I thought maybe it was a little to quick off the gun. I do respect and thank you for telling me that you had a ggod amount of guys in the 5-8 year mark. I will not lie, I was one of the prponets to hope for a % from all. However the AMFA took vote from membership, and guess what, it was voted to goto the table as they did. I know you guys are not used to this kind of representation, but it's AMFA. You do what the membership says or it doesn't pass. The membership is what drove the offer, not AMFA nego cmte, not AMFA National, not the company, it was a vote by the majority of the membership that drove the current offer. I may not agree with the yrs like you don't, but I more than likely will have to vote yes. 1- It's what the membership wants. 2- I want something done outside arbitration so we can move on. Just my thoughts.

 

[swamt]

From what I have heard is that the AMFA committee was much more polite than the previous meeting and I want to thank you for that. My only question is will the mechanics on SWA side hired after May 2,2011 get boost as well or will they get date of hire as discussed in the previous agreement. This will soften the blow to what ever the final years may be. I realize there is very little wiggle room in the 4 years,but I am sure a counter is expected,hopefully realistic by IBT. What time today is the conference call,just wondering.

No. Anyone hired after the date of "finacial close" May 2, 2011 will NOT get a boost. They will continue on with their DOH or DOC senority.
Glad to hear our Cmte was more polite and courteous. I think they know to not not piss you guys off, were down to the nut-cittin (dead line) tx slang if yoou will. Not sure on call you asked about.

 

[swamt]

I think this is great movement I prefer % but if it goes by the way of years, 2 to 2 half years could work provided the company made some guatantees by way of the 4 line of maint. And some new station to open (denver) in the near future or remain open and expanded(Boston, Fort lauderdale, and Indianapolis)

I got no idea if AMFA will or will not move on the years. When we were told about this late yesterday, we were told that the AMFA attorney said we were at the number, no fluffing the number. What the teamsters do with it is up to them. I like your ideas about working issues into the trans agreement to help get this thing to pass. Keep posting ideas, at least both sides are still nego.

 

[swamt]

I am on record as saying I think a 4 year increase is a little high.
If the AT guys think so also then I hope they offer a counter instead of going straight to arbitration.

We were never told that this was a final offer. I too would rather see a counter rather than flying into arbitration. I think were still nego untill someone offers the "final offer, take it or leave it" The company needs to stay out of the senority part, let AT and SWA mechanics handle this part. I believe they will work out a resolution without arbitration, at least something for us to vote on. Rather it passes or not is to be determined.

 

[SWA.TECH]

4 years is fair, it affords the junior guys the most percentage gain which is important as they are the ones taking the brunt of the seniority dillution. Wont much matter to me either way but I think its important to show our junior brothers some luv! We need to get under one umbrella , no slot protection , no fences, one SWA. The AT guys need to think about the future, if/when we are in position to do another, Morris/Airtran ect.... aquisition will they want the other guys just walking on in??? One thing for sure when SOC kicks in if no resolution is made we dont touch AT jets, AT doesnt touch SWA jets. SOC is right around the corner, AT planes being transitioned into SWA jets..... do the math.

 

[AvTech04]

4 years is fair, it affords the junior guys the most percentage gain which is important as they are the ones taking the brunt of the seniority dillution. Wont much matter to me either way but I think its important to show our junior brothers some luv! We need to get under one umbrella , no slot protection , no fences, one SWA. The AT guys need to think about the future, if/when we are in position to do another, Morris/Airtran ect.... aquisition will they want the other guys just walking on in??? One thing for sure when SOC kicks in if no resolution is made we dont touch AT jets, AT doesnt touch SWA jets. SOC is right around the corner, AT planes being transitioned into SWA jets..... do the math.

I'm pretty good at math, I'll respond to this one. Not to say that I'm for arbitration, I only hope we can come to an agreement prior to but let me do the math for you... The first conversion went in on Feb 20th, comes out April 15, that's about 55 days an airplane and there will be 2 lines running. So, 55 days, by 2 lines means about 1 airplane every month, average, on the 737's that are domestic birds. AT has 57 737's and, I believe approx, 42 will be converted until the SWA implements an international route. So, unless PAE opens another line or gets them done sooner, it's about 42 months before the domestic 737's are all converted.... Not to mention the international 737's or the 717's..

Now being realistic, outside of hard numbers, I think PAE can convert the planes faster than 55 days. So let's say 2 lines, each done in 45 days, your looking at 4 airplanes in 3 months, all ofcourse being optimistic, your looking at roughly 40 months to complete the AT domestic birds alone.. Again, that's if they don't add another line or get them done even faster.

I personally am not worried about the conversion time table. And as far as working on SWA colored A/C, well I can't comment. I know what the CBA says and I know what the work around is so I won't put that out there, but hopefully it won't come to that and we can agree on something and get it to pass... Again, I'm not a fan of hard number years whether it be a boost or loss, but definitly not a fan on 4 years... AT has a lot of junior mechanics also, a lot more than SWA, and they are already being placed on the bottom of a combined list even if this went DOH, so to add more to the bottom by giving a 825% increases to a mechanic hired right before date of closing, or May 1, 2011 is unacceptable!!

Seriously, the AT side is vividly against this, more responsive than the last agreement. I'm honestly shocked and almost proud that they are so productively active with offers this time. A lot are coming together like never before and agreeing with eachother. That being said, I think a 2.5 year increase would pass, even though I'm still against a solid year increase.

Keep in mind, I'm not negotiating here, I'm just giving my opinion to the reaction I saw since the offer and the things that I heard.

 

[Flman]

A SWA guy hired the day before 5-2-2011 who is on day one of probation (at that time) would jump almost a quarter of the AT guys. If it was say 2-2 and half years it has a real chance of working. We are almost there lets keep trying.

Side note AMFA needs to make there current offer in writing so the IBT can counter. The IBT won't unless it's in writing.
Most AT guys feel this is very close to a resolution that we can all live with.