IBT No Show Forum

[tech2101]

We read in ATL there's a new attendance policy. Is this something you voted in, or did the company just make one up and slide it in like ours tries to do.

Companies make policy, not unions. If you are talking about enforcement/discipline of said policy, then that would be a union matter.

 

[MadMan337]

Heard from mech's in MCO that the new station manager (AT guy placed above SWA guy) said they will run at minimums. Currently SWA 5 mech's 1 lead for 120+ flights, AT 8 mech's and 1 lead for 60+ flights. New minimums will be SWA 4 mech's and 1 lead and AT... no change. This is the kind of management our company wants? AT boy is setting us up to fail as well as look bad. Seems to me it will make HIM look bad but somehow I think he will always keep his job. Just be aware SWA mech's!

Are they going to realign DAYS and EVEs in MCO or just not call in overtime until they get below those minimums? Does AT need more Mechs because of ETOPS flights or just because that's how they are used to operating?

 

[AvTech04]

Heard from mech's in MCO that the new station manager (AT guy placed above SWA guy) said they will run at minimums. Currently SWA 5 mech's 1 lead for 120+ flights, AT 8 mech's and 1 lead for 60+ flights. New minimums will be SWA 4 mech's and 1 lead and AT... no change. This is the kind of management our company wants? AT boy is setting us up to fail as well as look bad. Seems to me it will make HIM look bad but somehow I think he will always keep his job. Just be aware SWA mech's!

Your basing it off flights alone and not man hours. You have to keep in mind that AT in MCO does more than overnight RON. MCO does A-checks and P-checks on the 717's and the 737's at the Hangar, those alone can take 100+ man hours each every night, not including the addition work done to the 717's outside of regular RON MX at the MCO line. It's similar to how, probably, HOU or PHX is staffed and manned at SWA. SWA in MCO only does RON with MEL's and some out of service work when it comes around. Now, I'm not saying that they don't work, but they don't run at 100% man hours every night like AT does in MCO. AT usually runs at 95%+ man hours every night with the line RON, Hangar work and all addition tasks outside of regulat RON, while SWA runs at about 70% man hours every night for just their RON work.

That's why, if you put it in ratio perceptive and compare it to daily flights, it looks bad, but your not taking into account any other workload.

 

[MadMan337]

Okay, I need to clarify something for everyone following this forum again. I am going to try and be as clear and precise as I can and the following is not a matter of opinion, it is a factual statement and I ask that you please read this and understand before commenting but feel free to ask any questions:

When we refer to the term DOH, or Date Of Hire, we all need to be clear that it is illegal to modify a persons actua company DOH in any way, form or fashion. Federal Mandate from the NLRB, I believe, will not allow you to modify a persons starting date into any company under and circumstances; merger, acquisition, etc.. So, No AT employees actual company DOH can be changed or modified in any way, form or fashion. Remember, even after we all agree and vote to pass any TA or SLI that brings the 2 work groups together, and even if the company agrees to TA, is has to go through federal approval to verify that all federal law has been followed.

Alright, if you understand the above statement then you'll also understand what follows. That is why there is a date of classification when it come to terms with a union. Now our union date of classification , or DOC for short, that's where any change in 'seniority' can be made. We can agree to add or remove time from that list. And all subjects pertaining to our DOC in the AMFA contract is what will be affected in any TA or SLI unless otherwise specified in the LOA. 99% of both our contracts read and reference DOC for matters of anything union related.

Here are a few examples to help illustrate what I'm saying. If a SWA ramper hired on 01/01/1990 goes and gets his/her A&P and gets a AMFA covered position as a mechanic on 01/01/2000, then his contractual obligations are reflected from the DOC date of 01/01/2000, but any company related obligations are from his DOH which is 01/01/1990. Same goes for an AirTran mechanic, if he was hired on 01/01/1996 and didn't join the teamsters union under the mechanic classification until 01/01/2002, then any decrease in seniority will be as of 01/01/2002 as that is his DOC.

I just wanted to clarify this once more in case there was anyone still out there that didn't understand it the first time around. No one at AirTran's actual company DOH can ever be modified, we can only offer to modify out DOC which governs all of our contractual obligations anyway. So when anyone mentions the term DOH, they are actually mentioning the term DOC.

You are correct. I believe everyone is unintentionally using the term DOH to be synonymous with DOC. Both of our CBA's recognize a Mechanic's company seniority date and classification seniority date and they are both tracked and listed on the Mechanic's Seniority lists. All references to adjustments to seniority have always been to the classification seniority date.

 

[MadMan337]

Your basing it off flights alone and not man hours. You have to keep in mind that AT in MCO does more than overnight RON. MCO does A-checks and P-checks on the 717's and the 737's at the Hangar, those alone can take 100+ man hours each every night, not including the addition work done to the 717's outside of regular RON MX at the MCO line. It's similar to how, probably, HOU or PHX is staffed and manned at SWA. SWA in MCO only does RON with MEL's and some out of service work when it comes around. Now, I'm not saying that they don't work, but they don't run at 100% man hours every night like AT does in MCO. AT usually runs at 95%+ man hours every night with the line RON, Hangar work and all addition tasks outside of regulat RON, while SWA runs at about 70% man hours every night for just their RON work.

That's why, if you put it in ratio perceptive and compare it to daily flights, it looks bad, but your not taking into account any other workload.

I believe he was only talking about DAY and EVE Line not RON.

 

[AvTech04]

I believe he was only talking about DAY and EVE Line not RON.

Okay, if it's just DAY's and EVE then I need clarification on what we're referring to here. Is it how many people are manned during those times?? Is he saying that only 4 Mech's will be on DAY and EVE for SWA while 8 Mechs will be on DAY and EVE for AT? That doesn't make any sense.. unless this TA gets voted in and he is referring to the minimum protected slots. If that's the case, he has to go by what slots were available on the date of closing per the TA and can't modify the minimum to any less than that date for either SWA or AT..

 

[swaboeingonly]

Your basing it off flights alone and not man hours. You have to keep in mind that AT in MCO does more than overnight RON. MCO does A-checks and P-checks on the 717's and the 737's at the Hangar, those alone can take 100+ man hours each every night, not including the addition work done to the 717's outside of regular RON MX at the MCO line. It's similar to how, probably, HOU or PHX is staffed and manned at SWA. SWA in MCO only does RON with MEL's and some out of service work when it comes around. Now, I'm not saying that they don't work, but they don't run at 100% man hours every night like AT does in MCO. AT usually runs at 95%+ man hours every night with the line RON, Hangar work and all addition tasks outside of regulat RON, while SWA runs at about 70% man hours every night for just their RON work.

That's why, if you put it in ratio perceptive and compare it to daily flights, it looks bad, but your not taking into account any other workload.

What I was told is that this is for day/eve line only. 4 +1 days, 4+1 eve, etc.

 

[Swadl]

I heard that our LOA voting was at 90%. If that's true I'm highly impressed with the turn out. And can't hardly wait to see the turn out from the TA vote.

 

[squidly]

Explain to me what you classify as an AT clown. You might wanna give up being an aircraft mechanic if you can't correctly spell simple words. But I might be wrong you "probably" pronounce it like you write it. And I was "promised" everything. Not!!!!! But what is meant for me will be mine and that is a fact

Still clown ... you failed to anwser the question. You willing to give up something. Or just worry about my spelling? What are youwilling to contribute to show good faith and end this thing?

 

[Hustl3r]

Your spelling sticks out like a sore thumb. So maybe your decision making is just as pathetic. I could be wrong and it could be all typos or I could be point on. 20-25 was what I said but I'm not on the committee. we will see tuesday if any other negotiation is neccessary

 

[swamt]

You are correct. I believe everyone is unintentionally using the term DOH to be synonymous with DOC. Both of our CBA's recognize a Mechanic's company seniority date and classification seniority date and they are both tracked and listed on the Mechanic's Seniority lists. All references to adjustments to seniority have always been to the classification seniority date.

MadMan and AvTech,
You are both correct. For me personally, I was using the term DOH in place of the correct term I should have used of DOC. You guys are correct no one can change the original DOH. The only change, relating to senority, that can be effected, is the DOC date. Sorry for the confussion. I think everyone went along with the way we were all posting like MadMan said, however AvTech; excellent eye and point.

MadMan,
If you do have the relationship as stated on here, please do inform all the members of the nego team, LEC,ALR's and whom ever else needs to be informed, including the company, in order to get these new offers back to the table and back into AT nego teams hands. MadMan is correct guys, and as I have stated before; pls guy,s get involved with this. Just the mere 90% of members voting on this should tell you how important this is. Everyone pls at least send the union nego members E-mails of what it will take to get this to pass. Give them the lowest numbers that an AT mechanic has posted, (20%), and give them the highest number that SWA mechs have posted (35%) and let them make the decision on what to go in with. Make sure these numbers are contigent on Both SWA's and AT's LOA's being removed, no fences, no restrictions, senority reduction (one time only) and then it's DOC against DOC thru-out the system. If there is a catastrofic event or rifs then it's still DOC in senority order, none of this AT guy goes before SWA guy no matter senority, and vise-versa, that crap needs to go out the window- too much seperation within the ranks in my opinion. Maybe that's why the company liked it so much?? I know we can do this guys. Get envolved and be heard, but do it all respectively and professional and your points and info will be taken into consideration. MadMan can tell you, if you go in loud and obnoxious, your ideas will go right into file 13, if everone presents their ideas properly and professionally it will go along ways. I am talking from all stations and cities. This 90% number we are hearing is one of the most unified moments I have seen here. Keep it up guys... Good luck to all next week.

 

[swamt]

Your spelling sticks out like a sore thumb. So maybe your decision making is just as pathetic. I could be wrong and it could be all typos or I could be point on. 20-25 was what I said but I'm not on the committee. we will see tuesday if any other negotiation is neccessary

You are nick-pickin spelling cause you really have nothing else to pic at. Now as far as spelling. DUDE Come on. Look at all my post. Most of us don't care about it. We get the point of each and every post. Look at it like texting. What's the diff (oh, man sorry I forgot to put a period after the abrieviated Diff. for difference) Who cares?? Move onto better more productive issues like sending E-mails to your union nego comte and maybe even the teamsters to get back to the table and get this done and overwith. BTW; your the only one (that I have seen) with a 20%-25% being your lowest number. Everyone else seams to be in the 25-35% or at least I will say the majority. I honestly think the final numbers will be close to the 30% midrange do to the 30-35% increase in wages and bennies and QOL. When AvTech posted his reasoning behind his numbers, I thought, was very fair and good reasoning behind his rational thinking. My self, I have stated 25%-35% because AT originally came into nego at 25%. I threw 35% from the AMFA side and figure good reasoning and nego would land us all at or around the 30% marker. And alot of the guys out here agreed. However, to be fair I included your 20% in my post above, leaving the room for futher nego if need be, I'm all about being fair. Stop picking about spelling or punctuation, everyone still gets it...

 

[swamt]

Would like to bring up one more point. Do you all se how weare all moving together as one to address the current issues at hand. Alot of us on here were a combination of YES votes as well as NO vote. We are now coming together with the same goals in mind to send the nego team back to the table with some more reasonable numbers to get this done. This is exacally what should happen. Love to see it. I know and see that we are a little off on our numbers, but that will be left to the fine folks nego at the table to come to that last and final number that they know their members will accept, pass this thing and move with other important single contract nego's. Again very happy to see the large turn out, bet we see an even larger one on the senority issue. I will predict a 92.5% or better. I would wager but don't want anyone knocking at my door for illeagal gambling, LOL!!

 

[WNMECH]

Pay:
Effective January 1, 2012, AirTran employees will receive a 5% increase in their base rate of pay or an increase of $1.20, whichever is greater. Effective March 1, 2012, AirTran employees will receive the wage rates and wage rules, i.e., all compensation, under the same terms as contained in the Southwest agreement. This results in approximately a 35% increase in pay for all AirTran mechanics and related employees by March 1, 2012.

This is straight off the IBT explanation of the offer being voted on now.
This does include all the other increses for airtran mechanics that are listed in the document.

We have all read this document and are aware of what AT guys will get when they join us as SWA AMFA represented mechanics. And I am happy they will get it.
However anything under a 35% reduction in senonity from them in exchange for these AMFA negotiated benefits would not be acceptable to me.

I believe if the number is 20-25%, it will just piss off our guys more and will be rejected.
You must realize, we may not be able to spell all that well but we can ADD.

 

[MadMan337]

Pay:
Effective January 1, 2012, AirTran employees will receive a 5% increase in their base rate of pay or an increase of $1.20, whichever is greater. Effective March 1, 2012, AirTran employees will receive the wage rates and wage rules, i.e., all compensation, under the same terms as contained in the Southwest agreement. This results in approximately a 35% increase in pay for all AirTran mechanics and related employees by March 1, 2012.

This is straight off the IBT explanation of the offer being voted on now.
This does include all the other increses for airtran mechanics that are listed in the document.

We have all read this document and are aware of what AT guys will get when they join us as SWA AMFA represented meechnics. And I am happy they will get it.
However anything under a 35% reduction in senonity from them in exchange for these AMFA negotiated benefits would not be acceptable to me.

I believe if the number is 20-25%, it will just piss off our guys more and will be rejected.
You must realize, we may not be able to spell all that well but we can ADD.

I believe (been a while since I read the document) the 5% was contingent upon AMFA and IBT ratifying both of the current transition agreements, SLI agreements and coming under one union prior to March 1, 2012. Not sure they will get the 5% in any subsequent agreement if these are voted down.