IBEW update for the week of October 21

[Labor Dawg]

LITH I'm not calling anyone a fake but if he still believes the TA was a good deal I do believe he is out of touch!If you want to debate how good the IAM really is why is it that the employees voted the TA down the way they did. Could it be that the IAM wanted to rush the TA thru so people could not question the agreement. Mr. Brinkner while he may be a fine upstanding man just supported a TA that was disgraceful! People were not even getting a pre-bankruptcy contract. The sad thing is they knew they were DEALING with a highly profitable company and they fell right in line with the company plans to [f***] this group. Seniority means nothing when you are trying to protect jobs. Maybe that is the real problem these guys haven't evolved with the times. A gallon of milk now cost almost $4.00. and yet my wages are less than they were in the 80s. I have a family and that is why I use milk as an example. I am not trying to disrespect anyone, but I hold the IAM responsible for many of the problems that have happened to the group. By the way tell me why they still don't want to listen to the group by promoting guys without a proper vote. OH YEAH THAT’S RIGHT THEIR BYLAWS ALLOW THEM TO DO THIS! This is the very reason they must be raided! They laugh at the true democratic process. Good Ole Boy System at its best!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

This is exactly what we need. Dialog! We are dealing with the past and the current. Now, the current merge is talking about how awful IAM is. Can Tom Brickner get past this. Or, is it inevitable that we go ahead and go IBEW. East and West are miles apart. Let's get the experience going. And it won't be fleet or mechanics but the union HEADS and possible replacements to respond. It is so insignificant to rely on opinions, not facts.

Hey, I had a thought. Since you have Tom's email. Kindly ask him what he did for fleet over the past 13 years. Please post his response here.

Since Tom is so quick to point out how his 'expert experience' can serve you best, why not ask him more specifically exactly what he has actually done at US AIRWAYS. Surely he knows because his name is on every contract. How about asking him why he wanted to throw away 20 benefits of the west down the toilet. Or ask him why he recently approved of Canale hiring 3 more 'east siders' to represent 'west siders', even though the west siders are IAM members?. Tom talks out of both sides and butters up the west against the east. Truth is that Tom was run out of the east because we have had enough of his bull####. Ask Philly about Tom and if Tom could keep more than 5 people in the room. Now Tom is running over to the west because nobody on the east will talk to poor Tom. Tom is also a United Airline guy.

regards,

 

[zone2]

Good night everyone.

 

[lithuanian]

Tim! Why don't you ask him yourself. Randy was not the representative we needed. Do not dismiss the fact that IAM was a pivotal player for decades. Tom Brickner might be the person to ask. Experience is practical. [email protected]. Maybe we need to educate and update ourselves before to stick it to ourselves.l

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim! Why don't you ask him yourself. Randy was not the representative we needed. Do not dismiss the fact that IAM was a pivotal player for decades. Tom Brickner might be the person to ask. Experience is practical. [email protected]. Maybe we need to educate and update ourselves before to stick it to ourselves.l

I know Tom and I have nothing to say to him. I was on committees where Tom was the speaker. There is nothing Tom can tell me because I know the man. You guys are newbies and his tough talk may itch your ears for a while but in the end, you'll figure out everything you need to know about Brickner. Separately, when Tom sez 'We are working on proposals'...who exactly is 'we'? What proposals is he talking about? When are these future negotiations dates he's talking about? Tom has done nothing. There are no negotiations scheduled, no proposals, nothing. Tom talks about the majority out west voting for the contract but it was barely the majority, but what Tom forgets to mention is that the majority voted his little sweetheart out by 65%.
Has Tom even scheduled one single negotiations date for section 6 westies? It's been 1 1/2 months since the September 5th letter where the IAM finally acknoweldged that I was right in their responsibility of pursuing section 6 for you folks. IMO, the IAM will wait till 2009 and screw you fellas over. What did Roth say about that?

at any rate, thanks for the email replies. They were interesting.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Go back and read your own posts. Again smoke and mirrors with you.

You talk about what the IAM already negotiated for us will not be lost! That is Bull(*& Tim! You cannot say that. All deals are off and you know this, but you are not being factual.

Still waiting for one thing that fleet would lose. Just name us one GoldenRam94. You're the one that popped off about this, now kindly show some respect for the audience who reads these post and share with them your facts, cases, references that back up your opinion. And also, what deal are you talking about that is off?

I gotta jet right now, I'll come back to this tomorrow morn.

New IAM Lie Flyers

regards,

 

[Labor Dawg]

LITH I think you think that Mr. Brinkner will change everything! The real question is why did all of this happen if he has the power to make it better? As I said before I was at the meeting at local 1776. He was there he could have and should have told Randy to sit down and shut up. He allowed Randy to stand up and say clearly that he thought this was a good agreement and that he was not sorry for pushing this crap! Again they are clearly not in touch with the people. The time has come for real men to stand up for what is right. That means that guys that are in positions of power should use it for the people. Hell even Stan Lee knows that with great power comes great responsibility. The strong is supposed to protect the weak and in return the weak will stand up for the strong. Well we have been beaten down for years! We have been beat down by the corporate assaults on the working class, and the very union we asked to defend us is sleeping with the enemy! I don't want the status quo I want the more and have paid for it for 13 years. 13 years and all I can show for it is losses in pay, sick pay, vacation time, med benefits, language in the contracts {such as whenever the company deems it has the right}, scope, seeing employees being traded off to keep catering in certain cities, 60 day rules that totally screw employees that are furloughed, deals for flts such as the PHL deal {the IAM guys let people from other cities come in to PHL. They got poss. space. Some agents made a commitment to the company and bumped to PHL. Then they could not go back to their families because they were being bumped by temps}, and my least favorite the class II cities. So all I can say is please tell me how great Brinkner, Randy and the IAM truly are!!!!!!!!!!!
PS I almost forgot about double time, shift permium and self pride!

 

[The Bagfather]

Dear Folks: I've been FS in SAN since 96 with a break from 04-06.
So I was there when the TWU came on. After a battle our first
contract was ratified. It was taughted as a good "first contract" by
the TWU.

Before we had a union we had profit sharing. While we were organizing
the company decided to withhold our profit sharing even thought we wern't
a union at the time. This was fought in court and we won. But what happened
was it was negotiated into the new contract and called a signing bonus.
Without that the contract woudnt have been ratified.

Now we merge with US right as the contract was becoming amendable.
The IAM carefully downplays this option most probably to avoid the risk of
a strike which may have cost them more than they thought we were worth.

Then we get the TA which is basically another "first contract". Especially if
one considers back pay issues from our amendable contract. Then consider
the loss of 3% match on the 401k , geografical diff et al and it starts looking
meager at best. A lot of SNA for instance would have been frozen at their
current rate of pay for 4 years. It is true however that a fair number of FS
in PHX and LAS would have gotten a significant pay raise. But even there, Anyone
who had been around since the TWU coming on saw through the TA.

Contrary to what you might get from this forum the IAM is not evil. They
just got in over there head thinking a battle weary East and a naive West
would go for it. Then they wouldn't have to put money into the COC
nor risk anything to amend our TWU contract. I think also that the bosses
at the national level hoped the mechanics would continue their mediation
so as to also avoid the arbitration expense. (It should be noted to be fair
that considerable resources were devoted to TA negotiations.)

So the IAM gambled and lost. If in the next week the IAM announced that
they are opening up section 6 for the west and they are committing significant
new resourses to COC issues (more lawyers, public relations campaign
political pressure etc) then I will stop collecting cards. But this will not happen.

Fleet service! We are at a huge crossroads. FS everwhere is watching this
In the end you must take action which is in your own interests. But for me
it would be dissapointing if not tragic if the IAM were allowed to stay. I don't
even think it is in the interest of Doug Parker himself to have his employees
represented by such a mediocre union.

Of course these are my own opinion and is definately a view from the west
but I felt it important to express it as I feel a lot of people feel the same
way and I have not seen it expressed to my satisfaction before.

Thanks ....BF email [email protected]

 

[Edward]

This is a warning to everyone:
The posting & slandering of names with out permission is not permitted. If you choose to do this you will be given time off without any other warning. There's plenty of room in the cornfield.

 

[orioleman]

Bagfather

THANK YOU very much for the history of you westies. Understand completely as I can see you guys are tired of the shell game..

Lets all get on the same page.. We have all been screwed from one source or another.. WE have an opportunity here to come together as ONE


SIGN THE IBEW CARDS..

 

[orioleman]

labor dawg

You got my vote for a chairman. YOUR information and knowledge of the issues is impressive


LITH

Just a history lesson on Hemmingway.. he was a PSA ramper worked his way up in the company (I'm sure by stepping over peoples back)

and worked under the grand poo baa Al Crelin.. As far as him being a lawyer .. I don't think so..

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

Contrary to what you might get from this forum the IAM is not evil. They
just got in over there head thinking a battle weary East and a naive West
would go for it. Then they wouldn't have to put money into the COC
nor risk anything to amend our TWU contract. I think also that the bosses
at the national level hoped the mechanics would continue their mediation
so as to also avoid the arbitration expense. (It should be noted to be fair
that considerable resources were devoted to TA negotiations.)

So the IAM gambled and lost. If in the next week the IAM announced that
they are opening up section 6 for the west and they are committing significant
new resourses to COC issues (more lawyers, public relations campaign
political pressure etc) then I will stop collecting cards. But this will not happen.

Exactly what I've been saying all along... They took the West for suckers! What was the vote in Phx again? 600-50? .......Oh wait... They WERE suckers!

This does NOT sound like the actions of a union that wants what is in our best interests. If any of you say that these actions WERE in our best interests, then I ask why it's good to NOT have a 401k match? NOT have a profit sharing, when customer service DOES. NOT to have normal rules on sick time. CUT holiday pay.. The list just goes on!! This is not a union that has any idea of what our "best interests" are.

Now the IAM has no choice but to clean up its act now that we have all gotten to the point of being irate, NOW the IAM is going to start using more resources, NOW the IAM is going to fight hard now that there are talks of new representation. NOW the IAM is sending more reps. Yeah, can anybody say DAMAGE CONTROL?!

TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE, my friends. Start packing your things. :rant:

And to think that there weren't any other ulterior motives for this conservative contract is just naive! The top of the echlon is corrupt, and they keep their henchmen ignorant with misinformation.

 

[Jester]

LAS and PHX were Suckers? How about some basic math?

You are sweating 3% of $9/hr for a 401K? What's that worth 30 cents an hour? Ooooo... My Cup Runneth Over!

Profit sharing? Based upon everything I am hearing in message board, predictions of future profits are greatly exaggerated. Last year I earned a whole $140 in profit sharing for the year... will someone pinch me?

Sick time? What's that? I'm part-time which has as much value as a copy of yesterday's PBT as I get no sick time pay.

Holiday pay? Few extra days of overtime a year are going to make or break the deal?

Considering many of the West were looking at $5/hour raises or more not to mention a pension, one month of extra pay would cover all those things you just mentioned "losing".


By the way, this "bankrupt contract" in the T.A. is probably the best any of us are going to ever see again outside of some inflation adjustments.

Regardless... Go IBEW! I am tired of being a hand-me-down for the IAM to abuse

So sayeth Jester.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Zone 2, this is a war so keep your head up and look straight ahead.
first off, there are alot of solid guys in PIT. It's taking some time to work though some of these issues since the IAM has pumped so much smoke into the room. Guys have legit concerns. Nobody is saying that they like the IAM, NOBODY. That's a good thing because we don't have to spend time talking about how the IAM is screwing people over. People arleady know that.
The IAM already knows this too, that's why the IAM isn't standing on what they did, they are just telling workers everywhere how they are going to lose the COC, pension, contract, etc if you divorce them. It's almost like they are wearing a wife beater Tshirt when they say this.

The truth of the matter is that nobody will lose a thing, NOTHING, and it will just take some time to unpack these issues.

This is about changing from a union that hasn't called your name in 13 years, to a new direction of hope. Those things take time so don't get flustered or pissed off at our PIT brothers and sisters. Some just take more time than others and if the IBEW is professional then they understand that.
To be clear, cards are not flowing like a waterfall since the IAM did their smear campaign BUT you should be encouraged to know that cards aren't just trickling in either. There is a steady current and the IBEW is not flowing like a dead fish down the current. The IBEW is swimming solidly against the current. Just was advised that Orange County did close to or right at a 100% signup as they are mailing 25 cards. PHX and LAS are solidly moving forward also.

Right now the battle to secure CLT is next. IBEW committee folks will be there to build a committee of leaders there so the information tree can be broadened to fight against the lies of IAM goofies that are running around thinking they are going to be the next member of the $100,000 club.

regards,

Your own words Tim! You clearly say that nothing will be lost.

Again, you cannot say this. All negotiations are open again. I am not saying that the IAM is worth keeping, I am simply stating the fact that something could be lost. Each individual needs to decide if what they already have is worth it.

Tim, I did not slander your name, stop trying to get me kicked out of here. I used your own words. Look up the definition of slander, you will find that what I did cannot be called slander, when they are your own words highlighted above! Ciao!

 

[b737200]

I'm in total disgust.
Tommorrow Parker will drop another stock holders party to celebrate the great earnings, caviar and
champane at CHQ. Then off for a round of golf.
OTH, you guy's only want to bicker and and badger each other and dot the I's of each post.
This is the way it is, start working like your underpaid and barely making it, instead of working like your the guy who is going to save the company.
These post sound like there coming from kids not from grown men.
Sign a card to show the IAM you are not satisfied, and work like your disatisfied to show the other party.
I see no action