iam twu alliance vote

[swamt]

Precident has not been set where a Collective Bargaining agent walked away from their members and the members lost their contract and became non-union because they did not approve of their plan. Yes precedence has been set that they can form an alliance, but they can't leave their members without representation simply because the members rejected the alliance. Precedence has also been set that two unions can represent the same class and craft at a carrier. So when the members vote "No alliance" they are not voting to decertify themselves from the Unions they are currently in.

Where does it say they cant walk away if we reject their plan? I believe it would fall under LMRDA. That would be no different than if the Union said if you guys elect Candidate "B" instead of Candidate "A" we will throw you all out of the Union. Its unreasonable discipline for them to throw us all out of the Union because we did not approve of their plan. They also have a fiduciary obligation to the membership in return for the dues they have collected. If they opt to leave then the membership would be entitled to any accumulated dues to be used to represent them in enforcing the contract just as when the members choose to leave they must leave those dues behind. unions are not for profit law firms, they are Non-profits and have obligations they can not simply walk away from. Even if they could throw us all out they would still have to enforce the contracts the members voted in place, but they would not be able to collect dues from us for doing so.

The Collective Bargaining Agent does not have the ability to void out a contract because the members did not vote on an internal issue the way they wanted them to, that has nothing to do with the terms of the contract.

They can not walk away from the CBA's they put in place unless we decide we do not want them to represent us. This vote will take place before Joint negotiations, so there are two current contracts in place and the Union is obliged to provide representation unless the members opt to decertify each union. So it would be illegal for them to in effect throw us all out of the Union(s) because we rejected their plan of an alliance that would split us between those two unions however the Alliance could in fact force it upon us and we could opt to decertify the Alliance but that would be through a regular NMB representation election process which would allow the members to choose another Union.

Bottom line is the Union is a democratic institution with membership rights provided under the LMRDA. They can not punish us by ejecting us from the Union because we voted against an internal issue, and they can not void our contract either.

Hope every one realizes this, part of the scare tactic.  And this is coming from a TWU union man, THINK people, THINK...

 

[swamt]

Why would he craft it so that a no vote for the alliance would lead to decertification? Was he worried it wouldn't pass unless there were repercussions for voting no?

This is their scare tactics by both unions TWU and the IAM.  They want the membership scared into voting for this alliance thing.  They want the membership to think they will be non-union if they do not vote for this alliance.  What is sad is most will believe these two unions just for the mere fact that they have represented their mechanics for all these years.  Bob Owens, as well as others that have posted are correct.  It takes an election thru the NMB to decertify a union let alone it would take 2 elections to decert 2 unions (TWU/IAM).  It's pretty simple guys, if you all vote no (against the alliance) then upon merging the NMB would have to throw out an election between the two unions.   You guys really need to do your own homework.  This would be huge if it were to happen as the TWU and IAM are saying.  Hell, that in itself would be enough for DFR suit against both of them...

 

[CMH_GSE]

Bob Owens:
"Even if they could throw us all out they would still have to enforce the contracts the members voted in place, but they would not be able to collect dues from us for doing so.

The Collective Bargaining Agent does not have the ability to void out a contract because the members did not vote on an internal issue the way they wanted them to, that has nothing to do with the terms of the contract."
 
 
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This "alliance" is about the worst thing I've ever heard of in my 22 + years with AA. 
 
I have not heard anyone saying, "yeah, we need that." 
 
I don't see any way it passes.

 

[swamt]

You are a liar.

The question here is "if the members reject the alliance would they be left with no union and no contract".

You are omitting information in order to threaten the members into accepting something they do not want.

If such a vote was put before the members they would have a third option, write in. The members would be able to write in TWU, IAM, IBT or AMFA. The Union does not have the right to impose internal political objectives on the membership by threatening to remove representation and the contract. It may be according to the opinions of your IAM lawyers legitimage but not legitimate.

I have been in heated talks with 700 about this.  I have said this from the very beginning, and I even asked you, Bob, to pls get involved and help explain this to the membership, so why are you now doing it?  When all this was first announced I said it was all a scam and scare tactics.  See 700, I wasn't so full of crap as you tried to say I was, now there is a TWU represenative saying the exact same thing I have been telling you guys all along.  It takes an election thru the NMB to decert, period...

 

[700UW]

The NMB will be conducting the vote, not the IAM not the TWU, just like the NMB did for the IBT/CWA Association.
 
But hey you all know better than the man that wrote the Alliance and all the TWU and IAM lawyers.
 
It will be an election.

 

[swamt]

Look guys,  more scare tactics as we speak...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Bob Owens:
"Even if they could throw us all out they would still have to enforce the contracts the members voted in place, but they would not be able to collect dues from us for doing so.

The Collective Bargaining Agent does not have the ability to void out a contract because the members did not vote on an internal issue the way they wanted them to, that has nothing to do with the terms of the contract."
 
 
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This "alliance" is about the worst thing I've ever heard of in my 22 + years with AA. 
 
I have not heard anyone saying, "yeah, we need that." 
 
I don't see any way it passes.

 
 
GSE
 
if this is Truly how you feel then can you get the GSE guy's to get with the program and help us stop this alliance before the remaining yrs you have are even worse?
 
We have asked the GSE guys and Facilities members each time we have had card drives here at AA since 1998. Each time we are turned away, one excuse or another.
The title 2 guys bought into the IBT? they signed cards thinking they the IBT was going to save the day. LQQK what happened forged cards and a pull out. Blocking the amfa supporters from a vote. WE all need a VOTE, so if that is the case the only way is to sign cards.
 
The one yr bar from the NMB is at the end of AUG. we need to insure that we have enough cards to jointly file with the USAirways guys. That means that GSE and Facilities needs to get with the Title 1 guys and sign cards.
 
NO more games and BS either we get or vote or suffer the results brought to us by this Alliance.
 
 
AMFA at AA 2014

 

[737823]

The NMB will be conducting the vote, not the IAM not the TWU, just like the NMB did for the IBT/CWA Association.
 
But hey you all know better than the man that wrote the Alliance and all the TWU and IAM lawyers.
 
It will be an election.

So your posts implies you are both a lawyer and/or wrote the alliance agreement? Was it not Tom Kilma that is the IAM designee for this BS alliance?

Josh

 

[700UW]

I am telling what came from the man who wrote the Alliance, he is an IAM Member and a good friend of mine for many years.
 
So why dont you disprove me if you think I am wrong.
 
So why is it a BS Alliance and what is it to you, you wont be voting on it nor does it effect you?
 
Klima is the airline coordinator, he is not the one who wrote or is the go between.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

So your posts implies you are both a lawyer and/or wrote the alliance agreement? Was it not Tom Kilma that is the IAM designee for this BS alliance?

Josh

Josh
 
both you and 700uw need to stay away from the important issues here at AA.
 
Neither of you work here or are affiliated with either union.
 
"YES" we all know this is a public forum, but your BS distracts from the issues here.
AA and Us employees are going to be fighting for what is right for them and the future money and benefits for their families.
 
Both of you and the back and forth bs are not wanted here. Give it a rest will you.
 
Start a financial thread put your knowledge to work see how many people visit and place info there. 700uw is just trying to keep the IAM which he loves and supports from loosing dues by scare tactics and quoting crap he has no knowledge about since he is not with aa or the IAM/TWU. (his words, not mine)..

 

[swamt]

The NMB will be conducting the vote, not the IAM not the TWU, just like the NMB did for the IBT/CWA Association.
 
But hey you all know better than the man that wrote the Alliance and all the TWU and IAM lawyers.
 
It will be an election.

You are once again a liar.  I have written the NMB as well as others.  The NMB has written back that they do not have the authority to conduct such an election between the TWU and the IAM.  The NMB also stated "in writing" that I have posted numerous upon numerous times to prove you wrong, and now Bob has finally chimed in and confirmed.  The NMB will be notified of your election for the alliance that you speak of, but they will not conduct or run the said election.  If there will be an option of non-union or no union then the NMB will conduct this type of election and there will be other "options" such as "write-ins", where members will be able to write in AMFA, TWU, IAM IBT or any other union they wish to be represented by.  They will aslo produce the "speak-in" option where members would be able to speak in the words of AMFA, TWU, IAM ect..., other options would include non-union, and possibly 2 other choices for the 2 unions representing each carrier at this time, but if all this happens it would be called a full blown representational election.  If it is only an election for the alliance of the TWU/IAM then that is an internal process and the NMB does not have the authority or juristiction to do so...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I am telling what came from the man who wrote the Alliance, he is an IAM Member and a good friend of mine for many years.
 
So why dont you disprove me if you think I am wrong.
 
So why is it a BS Alliance and what is it to you, you wont be voting on it nor does it effect you?
 
Klima is the airline coordinator, he is not the one who wrote or is the go between.

 
700UW
 
You have told us that you are not affiliated with US or the IAM.
 
So what is it to YOU?

 

[700UW]

You are the one who is lying at Mike33 got a totally different answer than you, and right from the IAM and TWU's mouth:
 
Learn to read and comprehend.
 

• Listen to the TWU-IAM Town Hall

• 
  Transport Workers and Machinist Union to Jointly Represent Ground Workers at the "New" American Airlines
  
  Questions relating to joint announcement
• Mechanic and Related Associated Agreement
• Stores Associated Agreement
• Joint Agreement on Pensions
• Seniority List Integration Agreement

 
Q: Will I have the opportunity to vote on whether or not I am represented by the Association?
 
A: Yes. Following the completion of the American – US Airways’ merger, the Associations will file representation applications with the National Mediation Board (NMB), a federal agency, which will culminate in three separate elections, one for each of the Mechanic & Related, Fleet Service and Stores classifications. You will vote in the election of the classification in which you work with others from both carriers.
 

 

 

[swamt]

I am telling what came from the man who wrote the Alliance, he is an IAM Member and a good friend of mine for many years.
 
So why dont you disprove me if you think I am wrong.
 
So why is it a BS Alliance and what is it to you, you wont be voting on it nor does it effect you?
 
Klima is the airline coordinator, he is not the one who wrote or is the go between.

I already have proven you wrong along time ago, as so has Bob Owens as of recent.  I have posted all my dealings and writings with the NMB, and to this day you only say "I believe my long time friend and member of the IAM"  (btw who is trying to force the alliance upon it's membership).  
You have refused to write and ask the NMB yourself, I wonder why that is 700??  You are afraid that you will recieve proof that I and others are correct.  Doesn't cost you anything but time sir, write the NMB, I DARE you to prove me wrong, C'mon, if you are so convinced by what this guy is telling you then pull the trigger and write the NMB.  But you won't, b/c you know full well you and your IAM and TWU leadership is using all this BS scare tactics to get the membership to vote in the BS alliance.  You are too scared to write the NMB and post the results, I did, why not you sir?  It would speak volumes about your character if you would at least make an attempt, as I took the time to do to prove you wrong, and now, finally, a top TWU international official is also telling you the very exact same thing I have told you from the very beginning, it takes a full blown NMB representational election in order to decertify a union, not some little ole internal alliance vote by the TWU and IAM.  Stop the scare tactics you look like a fool.  Move on somewhere else and let the AA and US guys do what they need to do and have a democratic vote...

 

[700UW]

He is a Treasurer of the line local 591, he isnt a high ranking TWU International Officer.
 
And you will see who is right and who is wrong, Linda Puchala, knows more than you, I, and the person you sent an e-mail too, yet funny how you wont post that Mike33 got a totally different answer from the NMB than you did, showing I was right as is the IAM and TWU.