Letter sent to NMB regarding FLeet Service dispute

[IAM1776PHL]

I know this is going to be hard for you to do, but i'll ask anyway. Would you name what good the iam has done for the ramp agents since 911? Not before, not during, but from 911 to the present. I don't care about other airlines compared to US. I want you to say what they have done for US and no one but US since 911. I don't think that I can ask it any clearer or more straight to the point than that. I'm convinced though, that you will find a way to wiggle out of giving a straight answer. The ball is in your court.

I'll help you out nothing ......traded many many many
F/S workers jobs in the small cities to offset the huge concessions package.
This is the part that the i.a.m. in hub cities failed to explain to the F/S group before the last vote.
Thats why so many members want to vote the i.a.m. out.

 

[hula-flyguy]

700, I'm not going to dispute your findings on the TWU. What you have failed to show is that the IAm was a difference when the workers needed them, even tough non-union workers went throught the SAME 911 terrorist attacks, are in the SAME industry, BUT came out with signifcantly better wages/benefits.


Yeah, nonunion folks are just ROLLIN' in the dough. Thanks for your many concessions that made it possible for us to rake in these fictirious funds!

WE LOST JUST AS MUCH, IF NOT MORE than our union co=workers.

 

[av60]

I know this is going to be hard for you to do, but i'll ask anyway. Would you name what good the iam has done for the ramp agents since 911? Not before, not during, but from 911 to the present. I don't care about other airlines compared to US. I want you to say what they have done for US and no one but US since 911. I don't think that I can ask it any clearer or more straight to the point than that. I'm convinced though, that you will find a way to wiggle out of giving a straight answer. The ball is in your court.

I'll help you out nothing ......traded many many many
F/S workers jobs in the small cities to offset the huge concessions package.
This is the part that the i.a.m. in hub cities failed to explain to the F/S group before the last vote.
Thats why so many members want to vote the i.a.m. out.

its all about the DUES.

 

[IAM1776PHL]

its all about the DUES.
Thank you

 

[Tim Nelson]

IAM Pension, protected the majority of the scope language, stood up for the members against the company in court during both the bankruptcies.

You still have the grievance procedure, safety and health provisions and everything else in your contract and have not gone back to being employees at will where the company can change things daily like they did when the PPG was in effect.

But unfortunately there were casualties since the laws protect the companies and not the employees.

And that is just for fleet, not M&R where we still do the majority of heavy mtc in-house.

700, they stood up for the members in court because it was their duty. in the end, they were'nt finally convincing, just went through the motions. They didn't protect squat in scope language. They got handed exactly what the company wanted them to have. Period. Even Canale in defense said "We had a knife to our back and a gun to our head" effectively saying we couldn't do squat.

700, since you continue to put false information about the pension I will have to believe that you are now lying since you had ample time to correct yourself.

Regarding the IAM pension, with reference to your #37 under this thread.
Your memory is mind boggling as you say that the fleet service concession was a $48 million bogey number. For the record, the August 2002 concession for fleet service was $427 million [6.5 years of concessions], which included around a $30 million credit. There was also a factoring concession for a retro pay cut that I beleive went back to July 1, 2002.
This is well documented and if you continue with your nonsense and lies I will put forth the hard copied sources here, with your own leaders signatures admitting the $427 million total concession.
This is dispute only in your mind as it was common knowledge in 2002. Your mechanics was $115 a year I believe. Not sure what the total concession was. The $900 million total with all groups included was annual only.

For those other than 700 reading this, I apologize for this 'rehashing' as I assume most were already aware of the huge concession amounts. 700 is too I believe but he likes fanning lies so the smoke makes the truth cloudy.

At any rate, here is the breakdown of certain concessions in fleet service for that proposal. Annually fleet service concession was $72 million.
Breakdowns:
Wages was the most significant cut and i think everyone can figure that one out. It was in the hundreds of millions.
After that, the second greatest concession was in fact the
Retirement benefits at: 48.2 million. This and the others below were not an annual concession but the concession for the duration. The retirement concession was a result of reduced company contributions and the institution of the IAM pension plan.
After that, the other big concessions in order were:
Vacation: 30.1 million
Health and Welfare: 29 million
Sick leave: 13.7
And a bunch of smaller ones going all the way down to "leaves of Absences" at 1.8 million.

I have this all on hard copy and if there is an election then you can bet the pension info would be made public to counter the ridiculus but typical IAM lies you stick to.


separately, just for historical purposes, the NMB determined a Dismissal-Withdrawn when I filed at the NMB in the '90's. There was never a determination of showing of support, however, it became clear when the reservations folks were considered eligible voters that there wasn't enough cards. Dismissal-Withdrawals are actually extremely common so you are ignorant to the fact that all unions have done many DW's. In other rulings, the IAM has been flat out dismissed because of lack of showing of interest [card signings]. I included just one of many in my post above but like many times I correct you, you just pick up your ball and go home without responding.

Actually, if there is an election I won't have time to spend on these side track issues & spending time debating this stuff with you unless there is some useful purpose.
I did however spend some time today as I saw the hit total taking off on this thread. So it occured to me that it might be useful in furthering this discussion since you have been so willing to play the role of disputer. Thanks.

For now, say what you want. Your opinion is only that if it has no support.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Dude what are you smoking?

All the employees concession from all the unions was $900 million, your fleet service employees could no where near make $900 million in concessions.

I see you edited your posting

 

[REACC1]

CWA customer service 18.00/hr, could have been you. CLASSIFICATION?
Question: Which means more to you, seniority or classification?

 

[robbedagain]

700. I believe that CAL went CH11 three times, either twice in the 1990s or 1980s and once in the 1990s. I am not 100% percent sure but think it was like 1986 or 987 and 89 and 94 may be someone can clear it up better but that is what I think. not sure

 

[hogsnpigs]

"You can do the math and actually get much smaller amounts."

Math is my downfall, so I'd like to see that. Could you please "do the math" in this forum for those of us in my position to understand? You suggest that smaller amounts can be reached "by doing the math", could you do the formulas to reflect smaller and larger amounts giving examples for us??

The IAM pension of $78 multiplier is no guarantee and based on many assumptions. You can do the math and actually get much smaller amounts.
It's in the language. Even your company put a 'qualifier' in the contract saying something like "We make no guarantee of any benefit you will ever receive from this pension".

At any rate, your company was very excited to get the IAM pension plan in the contract since it was the second biggest concession fleet service had to take [$48.2 million] when compared to the 401k.

The ramp got IAM'd on the pension as the IAM loyalist actually sold this 'deep' concession as an increased benefit. Some IAM loyalist may have done this because they were just plain dumb and ignorant to the facts, or their IAM job was on the line.
At any rate, 700 lets the facts get in his way when he suggest the IAM pension was an increased benefit for the ramp. At that time, I was there and part of the meetings that spelled out the deep concession of having the burden of the IAM pension plan.
What's more concerning is the future with this plan. In short it is a blast from the past and is very jurassiclike and not practical for workers of this century.
1. Workers have next to no portability with it.
2. heavy restrictions unlike the flexible 401k's where workers can make their own decisions for what's best for them and use the money for college, medical, mortgage.
3. payments can be suspended
4. Minimum company contributions are put in it.
5. If the IAM continues its 'heavy' losses in the California/West Coast aerospace industry then the plan will suffer great 'pain' and could very well 'wobble'.

At any rate, the IAM pension is just aweful and another result of IAM paternalism trying to tell you that 'they know what's best for you and your money.

You are better off non-union than being IAM'd.

regards,

 

[delldude]

Dude what are you smoking?

who...me?? why do you ask?? :unsure:

 

[700UW]

CO only went bankrupt twice.

 

[robbedagain]

oh ok I thought they went three sorry about that 700. May be it was TW that went 3x before going into history

 

[wings396]

I know this is going to be hard for you to do, but i'll ask anyway. Would you name what good the iam has done for the ramp agents since 911? Not before, not during, but from 911 to the present. I don't care about other airlines compared to US. I want you to say what they have done for US and no one but US since 911. I don't think that I can ask it any clearer or more straight to the point than that. I'm convinced though, that you will find a way to wiggle out of giving a straight answer. The ball is in your court.

I'll help you out nothing ......traded many many many
F/S workers jobs in the small cities to offset the huge concessions package.
This is the part that the i.a.m. in hub cities failed to explain to the F/S group before the last vote.
Thats why so many members want to vote the i.a.m. out.

One simple word says it all....NOTHING...
The fleet group has suffered brutaly under the IAM's representation, or lack of I should say. We could have taken the beating that we all got without paying dues for it. How anyone can stand up for this friggen joke of a union is beyond me, well that is unless you are on their payroll.... :blink:

 

[wings396]

I also can't help but to laugh at the IAM postcard that I got in the Mail today. A Quote from this piece of toilet paper.. "When America West Fleet Service workers join the IAM they will also receive the higher wages and secure pension enjoyed by US Airways fleet service workers."
How about telling them how many of their stations along with jobs will be lost to outsourcing!!!
They always FORGET to tell them about that fine little detail. How many US West stations will be left under the current IAM CBA??? MAYBE 4 or 5 if they are lucky,BUT they will get to ENJOY everthing that the IAM has to offer them for a small monthly fee. Then in the next line of B.S. they go on to boast about their teriffic pension plan.
They must be forgetting that you need to still have a friggen JOB with the company in order to be part of their great plan.....A true bunch of moronic lying jokers.. :down:

 

[Tim Nelson]

I also can't help but to laugh at the IAM postcard that I got in the Mail today. A Quote from this piece of toilet paper.. "When America West Fleet Service workers join the IAM they will also receive the higher wages and secure pension enjoyed by US Airways fleet service workers."
How about telling them how many of their stations along with jobs will be lost to outsourcing!!!
They always FORGET to tell them about that fine little detail. How many US West stations will be left under the current IAM CBA??? MAYBE 4 or 5 if they are lucky,BUT they will get to ENJOY everthing that the IAM has to offer them for a small monthly fee. Then in the next line of B.S. they go on to boast about their teriffic pension plan.
They must be forgetting that you need to still have a friggen JOB with the company in order to be part of their great plan.....A true bunch of moronic lying jokers.. :down:

wings, the IAM has never been anything more than the player on the field that runs his mouth in the 4th quarter while the scoreboard reads a blowout. All talk, no walk. And the reason why there is going to be an election isn't because of you, me, or any other individual. The reason why there is going to be an election is because hundreds of IAM members joined forces with the TWU in putting a miserable end to the 'pain' of doing 'hard time' and being IAM'd.

Although I'm not surprised, even the IAM's organizing drive that is pumping out all this election propaganda is second rate. Little flimsy postcard type things that stink of the appearance of second rate and cheapness. Unfortunately for the IAM, this US AIRWAYS campaign will also spill over and be very 'painful' to their endeavors with the Continental workers.
regards,