IAM Stepping Up campaign

[700UW]

http://youtu.be/zzjOiABS3pY

 

[Kev3188]

"We should respect the operation, but at the same time respect ourselves and our careers."
 
Truth.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev,
your clarification is helpful and only reinforces that use of the term "pension" to mean only DB plans is not only wrong but it creates confusion.

(sigh)

No, it only reinforces that you refuse to "know your audience," and are more interested in winning an argument than actually discussing anything.

You may be technically correct, but I can assure that if you say "pension" in a discussion on this board, 99.999999999% of the people will assume you mean a DB plan, and a DB plan only. That doesn't mean they're "confused"; it just means that's the context they're most familiar with.

 

[blue collar]

(sigh)

No, it only reinforces that you refuse to "know your audience," and are more interested in winning an argument than actually discussing anything.

You may be technically correct, but I can assure that if you say "pension" in a discussion on this board, 99.999999999% of the people will assume you mean a DB plan, and a DB plan only. That doesn't mean they're "confused"; it just means that's the context they're most familiar with.

Yep, when I use the word pension, I'm referring to a DB plan.

 

[eolesen]

Rule #1 in any negotiation, bi-lateral, or commercial discussion between two parties... agree on the nouns and verbs. All that matters is that everyone understands the intent and context -- it isn't really all that important if it is or isn't technically correct.

How the DOL defines pension doesn't matter right now -- they're not part of this discussion.

Kevin has set up some easy to follow ground rules on terminology.

WT, you can continue to stand on your own little island of importance while everyone else speaks the same language.

Or, you can be a team player for a change, and speak someone else's language. I'm sure you're more than familiar with the concept of "when in Rome", right?

 

[700UW]

Kevin,
 
I been hearing the anonymous survey isnt really anonymous, DL employees are getting e-mails that they havent taken it.

 

[700UW]

http://youtu.be/rx-UqQKkpTQ

 

[700UW]

http://youtu.be/fj_vVPqN_PI

 

[WorldTraveler]

Oh, I'm a team player.

The team has said that DL employees have consistently said that they don't want any more unions.

The team recognizes that the labor movement is dying an increasingly speedy death based on its own inabiity to adapt and meet the real needs of American workers.

The team also recognizes that terminology matters.... kinda hard to argue about details about compensation and then be flippant about the use of terminology to describe it. Words, numbers, values, ideals...

there can be no arguments with any of that... it's 100% the truth.

it's also not terribly difficult to know whether a link has been clicked on and it certainly doesn't involve knowing what was done on the linked page.

 

[Kev3188]

Rule #1 in any negotiation, bi-lateral, or commercial discussion between two parties... agree on the nouns and verbs. All that matters is that everyone understands the intent and context -- it isn't really all that important if it is or isn't technically correct.

How the DOL defines pension doesn't matter right now -- they're not part of this discussion.

Kevin has set up some easy to follow ground rules on terminology.

WT, you can continue to stand on your own little island of importance while everyone else speaks the same language.

Or, you can be a team player for a change, and speak someone else's language. I'm sure you're more than familiar with the concept of "when in Rome", right?

Thanks, E. That's exactly what- and all- I'm trying to say here.
 
 

Kevin,
 
I been hearing the anonymous survey isnt really anonymous, DL employees are getting e-mails that they havent taken it.

Here's what I can tell you:

The year before last, the survey asked for your age, gender, department, and whether or not you had anyone directly reporting to you. Since they already know the station, it's not hard to figure out who is who.

Last year, they dropped most of that demographic info. I think only your department was left?

If your city was in the bottom 25% of scores, you got to take another one not too long ago. There is also a whole spate of "fixes" that are implemented for those stations (increased senior mgmt. visits, skip level meetings, and so on).

This year's only asks for a dept. (they know what station), but also only has space for 50 words to comment at the end.

I'm not sure what they do elsewhere, but in my station, ALL of the system-wide demographics/aggregate scores are posted, and ALL of the station-specific comments are read first in a Lead meeting, then to all in a Town Hall style format. The year-before-last, our then manager also went through each question and noted the system score, and where ours feel comparably. The current one hasn't done that.

Bottom line: be honest (after all, they've asked you to), but don't write anything you wouldn't say to them directly.


 
 

The team recognizes that the labor movement is dying an increasingly speedy death based on its own inabiity to adapt and meet the real needs of American workers.

There's another team working to change just that. It's roster has more than just DL employees on it.
 

The team also recognizes that terminology matters....

No doubt, but context matters just as much. Knowing your audience is huge if you want to convey your ideas successfully. I think you know that. You can be completely accurate while speaking a language people understand.

 

kinda hard to argue about details about compensation and then be flippant about the use of terminology to describe it. Words, numbers, values, ideals...

Not when you're an effective communicator, it's not.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I find it more than curious that you would acknowledge that Anderson is a lawyer and talk so much about wanting it all in writing but then wiggle around when asked to use correct terminology and capture both the intent and the full meaning of the discussion in writing.

The labor movement has been taken to the cleaners more than once by slick lawyers who have wiggled out of one "commitment" too many that labor thought was sewn up tight while mgmt found loopholes big enough to drive thru.

Your statement about the survey is probably the most accurate... be honest but don't say something that you wouldn't be willing to say face to face.....

not sure why there should be any different standard anywhere.

 

[Kev3188]

I find it more than curious that you would acknowledge that Anderson is a lawyer and talk so much about wanting it all in writing but then wiggle around when asked to use correct terminology and capture both the intent and the full meaning of the discussion in writing.

No wiggling; I'm simply asking that the conversation not be bogged down in some sort of beyond granular linguistic battle. Surely you can make whatever argument you feel you need to w/o having to resort to such things, right?

Effective communication= Good

Pedantry for pedantry's sake= Not so much.

The labor movement has been taken to the cleaners more than once by slick lawyers who have wiggled out of one "commitment" too many that labor thought was sewn up tight while mgmt found loopholes big enough to drive thru.

No argument here, but you're now trying to conflate two separate things.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the evidence overwhelmingly says that erring on the side of accuracy and the greatest details ALL THE TIME is the best way to ensure that no one can take advantage of you (collective).

my desire, honestly, is that those loopholes and unexpected surprises DON'T happen and that you and the labor movement really do achieve what you think you are achieving and what was said, even if not written, at the negotiating table.

 

[Kev3188]

Effective communicators know how to be accurate w/o going out of their way to use in-the-park language. 

 

[700UW]

http://www.popularresistance.org/new-guide-unionbusters-101/