IAM Stepping Up campaign

[WorldTraveler]

Explain why the majority of airline employees ARE unionized.

because the vast majority of those unions were seated when the airline industry was regulated and costs were freely passed on to consumers thru government price controls.

It is hard to believe that you can't understand that the wave of bankruptcies that the legacy carriers all went thru was primarily intended to cut labor costs down to levels that were more competitive with the younger low fare carriers.

the irony of the industry is that unionization in the airline industry is on an upswing because these low cost carrier employees are tired of being fed promises with half-sized paychecks compared to their legacy peers. And the likely outcome is that the cost difference between legacy and "low fare carriers" will continue to close with labor rates between the two not much different. WN is a perfect example with their CASM which is now only 5% less than AA and DL. It is WN's productivity that sustains the wage advantage WN employees have but the productivity advantage is shrinking so wages cannot continue to grow as they once did.

DL has paid its employees at or above industry average for years and has strongly tied employee compensation to company performance, giving little incentive for DL employees to give up a system that is paying them far better than they would under a union system, esp. at a time when DL's profitability is so far ahead of the rest of the industry that it is hard to imagine any employees realistically gaining on a sustained basis.

 

[yoyodyne]

And you still haven't answered why the majority of airline employees are unionized and work under a CBA?

 
Because they are easily duped by flashy power-point presentations, but then wind up with leading industry floor rate, and the cheerleaders claim it because of bankruptcy contracts...
Then the union flashes DOLLAR signs (vs scope), and everyone gets the bone.

 

[700UW]

200 Cards collected from ACS in three days this week in ATL.

 

[WorldTraveler]

congratulations.

You do realize that with about 5000 cards needed for BW ACS, you need an average of 100 active cards per week in order to get an election called?

for the FAs you need twice that amount.

BTW, since Kev often talks about the number of BW stations that don't have mainline, this is a good time to note that AW at every airline has made huge improvements in productivity over the past couple years with kiosks, online check-in, and advanced gate technology that makes it possible for one DL gate agent to work a 150 seat flight.

IN contrast, the number of BW people that it takes to work a 150 seat aircraft is considerably higher.

The chances are real high that the AW and BW costs per flight are similar and might even be lower AW. That is the nature of the types of jobs.

but when the discussion turns to how many passengers can be processed by an AW agent vs. a BW agent - and considering that many domestic passengers don't check any luggage, the economics speak loudly to where DL can pay a mainline agent and have the most impact.

 

[Kev3188]

Here's a great FB post from an F/A that gets it:

"Suzi Pettit: One of the things I can't understand is why would anyone be an "undecided"? Why would our fellow flight attendants doubt anything we have to say when our collective experience represents at least what? 8 different airlines, many mergers, wonderful management, horrid underhanded management, and many negotiated contracts. Yes, the one constant in our vast experiences (experience which the New Way is very threatened by and will forever try to discredit)
is the unions. This one I won't sugarcoat. There have been those who have had bad experiences with representation. I can think of 3 different situations in my 30 year career. As much as I would have literally risked my life for any of my brothers and sisters, I had to do some impartial and honest thinking. All three flight attendants in all three cases would have been found guilty in a court of law. The union isn't in the business of exonerating anyone who violates a binding contractual agreement. Always keep in mind that if a union can't fix it, in almost every case the flight attendant was the one who irreparably broke it. The union is there to protect you whenever corporate is trying to violate your rights under your negotiated binding contract. The unions have fought for and won what was most important to us. We had a big voice. What is your fear? You have nothing to fear from being protected by law via a binding contract. You don't have to worry about disciplinary actions being dictated by the mood your supervisor is in that day, you don't have to worry about your retirement being taken away, nor what it will unexpectedly turn out to be because of the tiny print the company slipped in that no one noticed, or that your health benefits and your pay and your work rules will be eliminated, turned against you or forced on you. This is historically an industry whose roots are steeped in the military tradition. We look upon our coworkers as comrades, as brothers and sisters, as our family. We are an entity. Unless you are a crew member or are very close to it's members, you're not going to understand the band of brothers (and sisters) mentality. It's an entirely different life from anything on the ground. We live by codes, our own language, our own time, abbreviations, all very military. Except we are also caregivers, EMT 's at 35000 feet, police officers enforcing laws, peace keepers, entertainers, sales people, and we are to look polished and professional while wearing each hat. More is expected from our group of professionals than any other employee group. We are the saving grace for a passenger who feels he has been mishandled from revs to kiosk or check in to security to a crowded gate area where he's just another face with another complaint. We make it all go away so by the time he lands we have personally, single handedly kept a revenue passenger from defecting. We are hired based on our profile. We are extremely bright, but our fierce work ethic, our desire to please, our loyalty makes us vulnerable. Those traits can be interpreted as weaknesses and subservience. Now add a corporation that uses fear to control us, and here we are - professional do gooders who have no voice. We all deserve security. We all deserve to be held in high esteem. We are all this, we do all this without supervision, we are the company's most valuable front line employees who have the most time with the revenue. Most of us are nothing but loyal to each other. Most of us can't slide into that gray area between being your loyal crew member, and a crew member who will manipulate their brothers and sisters because they crave attention from the people who manipulate them. They actually believe their treason will secure them a position with corporate who is using them. So what is OUR agenda when trying to convince our brothers and sisters to vote in a union? We care. We keep caring long after we leave the position behind. Because our profile, our loyalty and protective nature is who we are even without the uniform. We had unions who listened to us and fought so very hard to get the benefits we enjoy today as retirees. We want the same for those who follow in our professional footsteps. That's it. We care. Now what's in it for flight attendants who are representing corporate, the ones who limit your questions on their site, the ones who may be all smiles but will never answer a question with a direct, honest, complete response? The answer: Whatever benefits them by betraying you. A feeling of accomplishment when management gives them a pat on the back for deceiving their peers, for defeating the union, with promises for a career in management, who knows what motivates those who are hopelessly self serving and can deliberately lead you to a place where you will lose what you have. What benefits are you expecting if we remain non union? If the least you wish for is for things to stay the same, you are in for a big shock and a short career. They can replace you with cheaper labor. They will. They can replace your schedule with a sharing program - two people sharing one block. They will. Oops, there go your benefits because you're not full time. This isn't some futuristic gloom and doom. This has all been tried before, and it would be your reality had we not had union representation at the time. Both sides will be amping up the action soon to convince you to vote yes, or no. It's not always going to come from a fuzzy warm place because sometimes with passion and urgency some of us get blunt. We are good, honest, very intelligent, highly experienced team players.,We were involved with our unions in every battle and we fought together to make it a better profession for us AND our future brothers and sisters. The emotion is frustration that we can't help get you the protection of a union if you won't believe. You won't get another chance. Wouldn't you rather choose iron clad contractual language, protection of a union, work rules that are negotiated according to YOUR input, a retirement that isn't created to take more money from you when you do retire, health benefits that can't be taken away or schedules that you won't have to share? We are all in this together and now is the time to protect the career we love. Don't throw it away with a "no" vote. Usually doing nothing produces as much. In the case of getting a union to work for us, doing nothing will result in a career you won't be able to live with."
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

the points may or may not be valid but you do realize that the name, like many who post on that forum, does not belong to an actual DL FA?

as such, what makes it certain they are actually a DL FA and that what they write is true?

if you don't want to use your own name, then don't try to use a pseudonym that looks like a real name.

 

[robbedagain]

that's great post there Kev  very well said letter

 

[Kev3188]

I agree. She's a effective writer and isn't afraid to say what many people are thinking.

 

[737823]

congratulations.You do realize that with about 5000 cards needed for BW ACS, you need an average of 100 active cards per week in order to get an election called?for the FAs you need twice that amount.BTW, since Kev often talks about the number of BW stations that don't have mainline, this is a good time to note that AW at every airline has made huge improvements in productivity over the past couple years with kiosks, online check-in, and advanced gate technology that makes it possible for one DL gate agent to work a 150 seat flight.IN contrast, the number of BW people that it takes to work a 150 seat aircraft is considerably higher.The chances are real high that the AW and BW costs per flight are similar and might even be lower AW. That is the nature of the types of jobs.but when the discussion turns to how many passengers can be processed by an AW agent vs. a BW agent - and considering that many domestic passengers don't check any luggage, the economics speak loudly to where DL can pay a mainline agent and have the most impact.

 

The DL 141 (represents HA, UA, and US) IAM Messenger newsletter has a piece in the current issue on self service boarding and bag tagging for UA at BOS and LHR. Right below it is a recap of the stations the IAM has stood by and allowed UA to outsource over the years:

http://iam141.org/docs/MessengerMay2014.pdf

 

the points may or may not be valid but you do realize that the name, like many who post on that forum, does not belong to an actual DL FA?as such, what makes it certain they are actually a DL FA and that what they write is true?if you don't want to use your own name, then don't try to use a pseudonym that looks like a real name.

Imagine that the union inventing support and using fake pseudonyms.

In the unions mind only the company and labor advisors have plants beating their drum never the union since as Kev always says "you (the worker) are the union"...

Josh

 

[700UW]

 

The DL 141 (represents HA, UA, and US) IAM Messenger newsletter has a piece in the current issue on self service boarding and bag tagging for UA at BOS and LHR. Right below it is a recap of the stations the IAM has stood by and allowed UA to outsource over the years:

http://iam141.org/docs/MessengerMay2014.pdf

 
Imagine that the union inventing support and using fake pseudonyms.

In the unions mind only the company and labor advisors have plants beating their drum never the union since as Kev always says "you (the worker) are the union"...

Josh

Stood by?
 
Your lying again.
 
The members voted to ratify the CBA, the IAM met with UA and held talks like the CBA states in order to keep the work from being outsourced, the final decision does rest with UA's management.
 
I wouldnt expect you to post the truth, because you are a habitual liar.
 
The members were warned on what could happen and even PMCO T5towbar explained this to you and others many times.
 
If DL's FAs or ACS unionizes they vote on their reps and will have the final say on their CBA.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[737823]

Funny that list of 40+ stations was from 2000-2008, doesn't include the most recent casualties. And yes the IAM did stand by and even encourage this outsourcing by bargaining for and recommending the members ratify that POS agreement. Meanwhile unorganized DL has more mainline ACS and ramp people in more locations, but you will say "DL contracts out XYZ , therefore they need representation", but as you yourself remind everyone no airline has ramp or AMTs at every airport they serve.

The sCO employees I know didn't want and don't like the IAM, it barely passed for ATW, had the old rules been in effect they would be unorganized. Really speaks volumes to the newly organized when they join the IAM and find out they have to move or lose the job they have been doing for 20+ years without representation. These are all indisputable facts you don't like because they don't suit YOUR agenda.

Josh

 

[robbedagain]

josh the only reason the rules got changed was bec dl wanted it change to suit their own agenda in the fact their employees are showing interest in becoming organized   

 

[700UW]

http://youtu.be/ja3ZLx5nnOo

 

[700UW]

 

[southwind]

http://youtu.be/ja3ZLx5nnOo

Yep! Eastern and I go way back........3 generations and everyone wants to blame only management for their demise!
Some of us know better and know unions were as much to blame!

The Downfall of Eastern Airlines!

1. Frank Borman- nice guy, not a good airline manager;

2. IAM.

Save your breath protesting about Francisco Lorenzo, his involvement only affected the value of assets at liquidation, not the survival of the carrier.

I would place the fault mostly on the IAM...I was there during the nasty strike...Charlie Bryant and his ego....next would be Lorenzo....

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/1176477/

Next!