Guess you forgot that that US was in chapter 11 in 2002 when we took concessions, and it was two rounds, and in 04/05 US was back in chapter 11 and we never reached an agreement, I was on the NC then when we had our CBA abrogated, they were not section 6 negotiations, it was Section 1113 C bankruptcy negotiations.
IAM M&R CONTRACT UPDATE AUG-2013
- Thread starter TRAVIS
- Start date
To The TWU/IAM Clowns,
I haven't been on here in a while. But simply said, this contract is pathetic. How in the world does a group of US Air Mechanics end up with TWU's negotiated American Airlines bankruptcy contract? Furthermore, It still places them last in the industry in take home pay. We will still have a higher premium after our september 12, 2014 increase.
AMFA Now More Than Ever!
I haven't been on here in a while. But simply said, this contract is pathetic. How in the world does a group of US Air Mechanics end up with TWU's negotiated American Airlines bankruptcy contract? Furthermore, It still places them last in the industry in take home pay. We will still have a higher premium after our september 12, 2014 increase.
AMFA Now More Than Ever!
Overspeed
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Looking at UA/CO merger aligning contracts separately before negotiating an agreement that raises the bar is normal. Frustrating but normal. Neither UA or CO got a higher wage rate than the other before working on a JCBA. The bad thing is that UA has been negotiating with the IBT for over three years and they do not have union merger issues.AANYER said:
WRONG! I spoke to a CAL guy who has been following his negotiations and they (both sides) do have merger issues. Why do you think they are having a problem hammering out a deal that is acceptable to both sides? Both UAL and CAL can not come to a fair agreement over benefits, seniority and work rules. Next thing your going to say it is AMFA's, NWA or Seham's fault.Overspeed said:
Overspeed
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Uh they do not have union issues in that there are two different union organizations. They are both IBT. We have the IAM and the TWU. That is what I meant. And from reading their negotiation pages, it looks like after negotiation the interim agreements the IBT decided to create a new CBA instead of fixing each item one at a time.1AA said:
http://teamsterair.org/articles/ual-cal-cmi-mechanics-update
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Overspeed said:
Just because CAL/UAL are in joint negotiations does not mean they don't have any union problems. Not getting the seniority list integrated since they have become a single carrier is a big deal. Even here at USAirways the Pilots are not happy with the current situation. There are the easties and the westies. Now you need to throw in the AA pilots and it is going to be fun to watch how that turns out. Since the AA pilots are the ones who wanted this merger. Thinking they could get a better deal, with Parker.
I get stuff from several UAL guys about what the IBT is/has done there and they are not happy about it. Why would UAL offer $105k for an early out and have the members turn it down. If they offered that here AA would have very little workers left. We had how many go at $40k? The back door deal of the IBT are happening all the time there, still.
Hoffa decreased the pay out of retirees to keep the IBT pension solvent for yrs to come. The IAM has done the same and will do even more if and when AA says we are no longer going to deal with the association we want you to decide which union is going to represent the employees going forward. It may not be the first contract but I would bet the second would be a good time for AA to say that.
The sooner we get one union here at the NEW AA, will be better for both the USAirways guys and the AA guys. Having this alliance/Association what ever is just a ploy by the AFL-CIO to keep the IAM and the TWU from a fight and keep the dues coming in.
Keeping the members in limbo does that it also prolongs the negotiations which in turn is a pay freeze for us the members but keeps the dues rolling along.
This T/A is a way for YOU the IAM mechanics to say we want more. You have given enough over the yrs. At what point do you say enough is enough. Do you want this IAM/TWU assoc. ?
Good Luck with what YOU guy's choose to do.
If you want a change then it's time for us to join together as one group to work now towards a better future for us and those who will follow.
Did either of them go into the merger with an open contract?Overspeed said:
No they didn't just open the contracts and give raises but for all three of those years both the CAL and the UAL agreements were far superior to either ours or the IAMs, they have higher pay, more holidays at higher multipliers and better benefits and workrules. look at us, our new employees only get one week of vacation and just lost the option to buy a second week, which even non-union Delta workers start off with, non union Jet Blue starts off with four weeks vacation. Don't you think that UAL is saying to their guys "how do you expect us to compete when AA is paying their guys $5 and hour less? Even after the mid term wage adjustment AA will still be paying wAAy less due to our inferior Vacation, Holidays, sick time, health benefits, OT rules etc etc.
I spoke to some guy named Jackson at the Shareholders meeting, I forget what his position was, he claims that they don't want to give the IAM a bigger pay raise than what we are getting because it would not be fair to the AA guys (like they care!!). I told him that they told us that when we became as big as the others that they would pay us like the others, we are looking at the IAM deal to see whether or not they intend to keep their word and would not mind one bit if they brought them up to industry standards because if we get hung up in joint negotiations our pay would be brought up as well through the mid term wage adjustment. (we don't want the IAM deal dragging down the average which this deal does). I also said that if they do that it would likely speed up the process as far as getting a joint deal done. (this was prior to the announcement of a TA).
This agreement is a disgrace, AA is already making tons of money and it doesn't even bring these guys close to what UAL and Delta are currently paying, it brings them up to our bottom of the industry Bankruptcy contract. One thing for sure, it makes the idea of any sort of "Alliance" with the IAM picking half of our negotiating team that much more repugnant.
If anything the UAL/CAL extended negotiations should give us a pretty clear view of what we can expect from our joint negotiations, and thats with just one Union at the table, not two, our joint negotiations could very well last up to the amendable date of our current CBA and roll back into section 6. Then we would be in the same position we are now but four years later, and older. Having both the legacy AA and (if it passes) the legacy US mechanics locked into the worst deals in the industry will render far more savings than any synergies gained through a joint agreement that brings us up to industry standard. Settling for a crappy deal now under the guise that we will then get a better deal in joint is nothing but pie in the sky. I hope the US guys arent stupid enough to buy it, tell the company to "show us what you intend to do when we are under one agreement". I think they already have.
The IAM needs to get a deal that brings them up to industry standard now, not up to the AA bankruptcy pay rates, that's pathetic. Doing so would put more pressure on management to come to a joint agreement fearing that maintaining the inequity through extended no-gotiations could destabilize the company.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Dont tell me the ibt is still involved at amr?? After it firebombed an election at amr and got destroyed at usair, who in their right mind would want them?
Not sure its fair to say the IBT "got destroyed at USAir"....they did not really lose by that large of a margin. And if a revote was run today after the IAM presented the Mechanics and Related with that POS they have the Ba** to call a non concessionary contract the vote would be quite different!!! Funny largest airline in the world ad the lowest paid mechanics!!!
TopCat870 said:
What you say is true; unfortunately, your license pay in the I.A.M. T.A., would still be considered substandard among your peers in the industry. Add to that the IAM - not unlike the TWU, then further diminishes the value of the A&P license pay by then giving so called "skill pay" to other title groups for things like having a drivers license.
It is time to rid ourselves of these "one size fits all" industrial unions. AMTs will always come out on the losing end - until we have our own representation. Right now, the AMFA is the best chance that we have.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
I must admit that over on the fleet side, they got a much better shake than the US AIRWAYS MX. What were the MX mechanics thinking? Wow.AP Tech said:
As an aside, seems like at least the US AIRWKAYS MX are voting against their District leadership in favor of the challengers. But heard that the INTL just charged the woman running against Higgenbotham with member in bad standing.
