IAM in T/A - Now we need ratification and the loan

[wts54]

Mr Tilton should give us back the 4and2 pattern back
that Bill Norman in SFO took away just because he could.
All the other IAM employees have that option but he is
insisting on us working 6and2.I would like to write Mr.
Tilton asking for his help but I cant find anyone who
can give me his e-mail @ual.com.Can anyone help me
with some info.Both rdo patterns are numerically the
same so it doesnt cost anything extra to UAL but it
sure makes life a little sweeter.Its the little things
UAL could do to make things nicer for us that dont cost
a dime.

 

[wts54]

Bob,I agree with you on reopening the contract
here at the good ship lollipop that would never
happen.Back during the esop they gave us a midterm
wage adjustment per the esop contract.Their offer
was a 2% increase,and keep in mind we were making
BILLIONS IN PROFIT.IMHO UAL or the people who
could have shared that money with all the employees
a little more freely than they did would rather
buy a bottle of clorox and drink it than
reward any hard work and sacrifice of the employees.
The contract in my opinion is to long especially if
the ATSB turns us down for a loan.When ever UAL turns
a profit and I'm sure someday we will they will keep
every penny for themselves.Open a contract early not
in anyone here's lifetime.I agree with much of what
you say in your posts.

 

[kcabpilot]

wts54:

I don't think that many of the people who post here have any idea of how this company has dealt with those of us in the maintenance division and there is no explaining it to them - they'll just call you a whiner. The loss of trust and credibility in management cannot be magically erased by the appearance of a new CEO who collects several million dollars up front to exact wage concessions from us.

I'm not buying the idea that United is in the situation it is today because of me or because of organized labor, that's just total crap but it's been management's drumbeat for at least the past several years.

Now there I go again, expressing my opinion and I'll no doubt be labeled an angry, bitter, stupid Mechanic by people who spend way too much time in the comfortable little world of this internet message board where anyone with a differing opinion is a mental midget, without a clue

I'd love to chat more but I've got airplanes to fix.

 

[atabuy]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/23/2002 12:24:04 PM kcabpilot wrote:

wts54:

I don't think that many of the people who post here have any idea of how this company has dealt with those of us in the maintenance division and there is no explaining it to them - they'll just call you a whiner. The loss of trust and credibility in management cannot be magically erased by the appearance of a new CEO who collects several million dollars up front to exact wage concessions from us.

I'm not buying the idea that United is in the situation it is today because of me or because of organized labor, that's just total crap but it's been management's drumbeat for at least the past several years.

Now there I go again, expressing my opinion and I'll no doubt be labeled an angry, bitter, stupid Mechanic by people who spend way too much time in the comfortable little world of this internet message board where anyone with a differing opinion is a "mental midget, without a clue"

I'd love to chat more but I've got airplanes to fix.
----------------
[/blockquote]
wts54 & kcabpilot,
I can't understand why you would stay somewhere that you hate to work, or would not try to change your work place situation. Almost 1/2 of you waking life is tied up with Ual. Have you ever thought about going into management to change the culture or is this something your co-workers would see as going to the dark side.
Do you guys have goals in life or know the direction you want to head in? What I mean is Ual cannot make you happy. You are responsible to do that yourself. Ual gives you the opportunity to make a living. What you do with the money you make is totally a decision you must make. Everything does not come to everyone right away. It takes years to aquire possessions, money, and a quality of life you dream of.
What does Ual expect of you that makes you so angry with them. What do you expect from the company.

If you can really collect your thoughts on these issues and show a valid reason why you think Ual is doing you wrong, I encourage you to write to Mr. Tilton and explain why you believe Ual is not living up to their contractual obligations. Before you do this search your memory and ask yourself if you have ever given management cause to buckle down on any thing you do. I mean the whole mechanic class you work in. Not just a few individuals. Generally people tend to treat others like they get treated.
I don't agree with all Ual's polocies either. There are many things I want to see changed and am working toward these goals.

I am waiting to work on these right now because I think Mr. Tilton has his hands full with a lot of big issues. So I will wait until things settle down a little. Remember most of the supervisors you guys have came from your ranks. There just on the other side with a bad attitude against you.
Try figuring out why.
Good luck.

His address is [email protected]

 

[wts54]

Lets all put on our rose colored glasses.

 

[Bob Owens]

Unitedchicago;
To each his own. I've never considered it impolite if someone asked how much I made, whats the big deal, what harm does it do? You can always say its none of your business. Maybe you feel that your overpaid for what you do so you dont want anyone to find out. But asking for a pay cut is a little more invasive. The impact is real and it is an insult because your basically saying to the person that they are not worth what they are getting.

Are you aware of what a question mark indicates?

 

[kcabpilot]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/23/2002 1:39:55 PM atabuy wrote:

I can't understand why you would stay somewhere that you hate to work, or would not try to change your work place situation.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Man, can't a guy express some dissatisfaction about something without everyone assuming he is full of hate? I don't hate my work or my supervisors or even Jimmy Goodwin or old Steve Wolf himself for that matter. I work with a great bunch of fellow Mechanics. I think that United has the best, most experienced maintenance crew in the world and I do try to change the situation as it is but that doesn't include keeping my mouth shut and accepting every cold plate of beans that management tries to shove my way.

wts54 is right. If management would stop treating it's employees like trucked in dayworkers and start LISTENING to them for a change the benefits would far outshine what they are going to get with this cheesy cash grab that is going down now.

Of course we have told them that, time and time again and I guess we'll keep on telling them but so far no one is listening.

As for staying, I've got some irons in the fire and it's very possible that I will bail out within the next year. There are family issues that keep me here for now. In the past year at this station in just the R&E skill alone there have been over 30 people leave so contrary to popular opinion there certainly is life outside of UAL.

 

[Segue]

The worth of one's job is (or should be!) determined by supply and demand in a market based economy. Why should anybody argue about being underpaid?

 

[UnitedChicago]

Bob Owens:

Yes...to each their own. I would disagree that asking for someone to take a paycut would mean that they are not worth what they're paid. I think that's a negative person's view...glass half empty.

 

[Boomer]

Segue,
I believe in the market based approach. The problem I have is that the Government only allows that approach in the case of Senior Management.

If a bunch of guys with names printed on their shirts bands together to negotiate the value of their contribution to the enterprise: the Government intervenes or allows the Corporation to file Bankruptcy and abrogate their contract with those employees while simultaneously giving bonuses to the upper management.

 

[Bob Owens]

UnitedChicago;
I dont know how being told that you should be willing to work for less could be interpreted as anything but You are overpaid. If Tilton works for the same company yet his pay is justified as he desrves every penny, then what are you saying to everyone else in the same company when you tell them to take a pay cut?

How should a positive person veiw being asked for a paycut? Assuming of course that he is not a moron.

 

[gatemech]

There are only two airlines showing profits. Isn't it funny that they treat their employees with respect?

 

[UnitedChicago]

UnitedChicago;
I dont know how being told that you should be willing to work for less could be interpreted as anything but You are overpaid.

Hey Bob Owens. Let me setup a scenario for you. It's general business sense. I hope you can crasp that. Let me know if you don't get it... I can dumb it down for you further.

You work for compnay A. Company A has fallen on hard times. There is a recession and Company A's sector has been especially hard hit due to an act of terror. Aviation is almost 100 years old, yet have we ever had four airliners manipulated into weapons against the United States of America?

So after say 4 years of being paid the same wage this horrible act of terrorism occurs. It plunges the airline industry into the biggest crisis ever. In order to survive, certain airlines must cut wages to survive and avoid mass-layoffs.

So if you still think that if you're asked to take a paycut, it must naturally mean that you are overpaid...you're a complete moron.

 

[atabuy]

For the mechanics.
Most of you were huffing and puffing about what we were going to lose before we knew the facts.
It turns out it is a straight money concession and the rest of our stuff is still in place.
Now you are saying the company hasn't changed.

The hangman always said some people would #### if they were hung with a new rope.

Give Mr. Tilton a chance to fail. Geez. In the short amount of time he has given us the chance to save ourselves. He is not a magician. Just a great leader to get us all working together.

Send in your ideas about how we can improve. Get on a task force to throw around ideas. If you don't want to put on rose colored glasses, at least take off the blinders.
Talk with each other and get a plan together. Talk with management. Bury the hatchet. Respect one another. You know this is a two way street.

These are common sense issues. Just do it!!

 

[Segue]

Boomer:

In any other business, the contract is between the individual and the employer. For management and salaried, the only legal requirement on both sides is a two week notice. If a person does not like it where they work, they leave and go to where it is better. On the flipside, if a managment employee does not fit in or underperforms, its easy to show them the door. Of course, officers have contracts that provide for a nice departure, but your average management employee has none of that.

The problem with union employees is that the contracts and seniority systems make it necessary for the employees to stake thier career on one company. Its just not practical to jump off and start all over again at base seniority.