IAM Fleet Service topic

[lithuanian]

The more information we try to absorb: The more misinformed we get! Log off! and go back to a time when education was useful. And now! Education (and such) is the Root of All Evil!

 

[orioleman]

lith,
I'm sorry but I really try to follow your thought process but you make no sense.

it sounds like to be educated is a bad thing. Sorry no comprendo .

 

[lithuanian]

OOPS!!! This got tangled up with my CRAIGS LISTING! [remainder edited by mods since it has NOTHING at all to do with this thread. If you want to continue posting here, stay on topic.]

 

[The Bagfather]

700, I'm not a lawyer either but what you say is obviously true.
So please come back and tell us what the chances of that are.
One is a thousand? One in a quadrillion? Or mabey One in
ten to the 435th. This last number is exceedly large. Essentially
this number reduces the chance so greatly as to make the
figure synonymous with impossible. But mabey I'm
exagerating. What do yhou think?

 

[libertybell]

Giantfan, Let's not worry about Hemenway coming back at this point, we must worry about jobs first and see to it that this contract is voted out. Canale gave all the 'rights' to a merging partner and this company. I look for a complete rape of fleet service at this time due to entering a merger with a complete strip of protections.

This is not a transition agreement. This is a merger agreement hand delivered to the United Airline Board of Directors.
Randy Canale made this 'clear' as he opened up the following articles this time to 'close out a United merger'.
Article 2. status of agreement- complete waiver of CIC merger protections and leverage.
Article 3. Scope- complete elimination of solid west scope with 'drop dead' 2011 language installed.
Article 4: Complete annexation of non-union managers and supervisors with immediate seniority.
Article 7: continued restriction on 60 day rule for those laid off
Article 9: Elimination of full-time seniority rights for recall to part-time positions
Article 26. Complete elimination of part-time [60-40] ratio for the west for a period up until integration. What the hell is going on???? This is HUGE. WHY do this??????
Article 28. Employees must wait for their pay raises and many things won't happen until OIE but union positive space travel happens IMMEDIATELY at signing.
Article 31 Duration add 2 years
Extra: Eliminate profit sharing

If you asked me to paint a contract for a merging partner, I would come up with all of the above. Randy Canale is duty bound to the United Airline stockholders and is sworn to them as a BOD. This is NO TRANSITION agreement since Randy opened up articles that don't apply but cater to United Airlines.

At any rate Giantsfan, you say your station is in Florida, Class 1 and is all voting yes. I can assure you because of VC in TPA that TPA is voting No. Nobody listens to VC and TPA is educated. FLL is voting mixed results right now but may turn into a decent No. MCO is the only class 1 station that is voting Yes anywhere so you have to be in MCO to say that. FV and LGA just about ran Chandlee out two days ago. BC couldn't put 4 words together. PF had NO EFFECT on SAN and MW's first lie in FLL was costly. These guys can't put 4 words together, don't have any answers and the only thing they are saying is that "Hemenway isn't coming back". That's the message from the union as it attempts to sell this contract. I copied their August 10th letter which said the same exact thing.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Tim,
Holy Sh!t!

I think the yes voters heads just exploded!

Thats one strong argument to favor a strong No vote.

Keep the facts coming.

 

[JoeDirt]

Bagfather
Maybe you can answer.

Ask yourselves why the company came to us..........why?

 

[Richard]

Keep it on topic--the posts on this thread which make no sense have been dealt with-DO NOT respond or comment further to them....

 

[lithuanian]

Joe Dirt! This is a Cost Neutral contract and the results of this vote will give the parties involved the go ahead.

Fidelity!
Blue Cross, Blue Shield
IAG
And, G$$ knows who else. Oh! Yeah! IAM and the pension!

The likes of workers at US AIRWAYS somehow, sometime, after this vote and into the next merger,will go thru this again, and again and again.

The US needs a leader to stop the INSANITY.

 

[mike33]

Most people realize it has merit and gives fleet tremendous leverage for a better transition agreement. Hemenway was advised by the company's attorneys to take it out this time. Remember, last time they didn't bother taking it out and Parker was clear that he didn't think it was a threat to remove it from the contract.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

To understand it's merit in this round is to under its value in upcoming mergers and the difference from the last TA. Remember, the last stock value of usair(not LCC but US) was $0 exit BK. The value of stock in upcoming mergers will not be zero and we now know the language states in the COC that the--

" Common Stockâ€￾ is the Common Stock of US Airways Group, which are then outstanding and the
Common Stock issuable on exchange, exercise, and/or conversion of securities of
the Company or US Airways Group that are then currently exchangeable into,
exercisable for, or convertible into such Common stock.

Which would be the same that the merger of DL/NW has offered their stockholders..............

 

[lithuanian]

Here we go again! Us vs them! I truthfully love a FIGHT! Yeah the money matters: But! The CIC! will result in the next go round of mergers to deal with the language the initial IAM/twu (both contracts) wrote into the protections and conditions for workers. Why, the H## doesn't anyone in position extol this?

It's going to be a real HANG-UP into the next merger, an arbitrator, the NMB and the union and company will look like S### .

Do we want management to take it in the R---? Or do we move on and let (them) get their bonus'?

Your vote will tell!

 

[mike33]

If US buys UA, then there is no COC, is there?

700..very fair ?. But, do you actually think that is going to happen? UA has a better name recognition and are much bigger than US. I see only Tilton stepping aside and Parker taking over, but only the management. UA would be the surviving carrier. Management change has nothing to do with COC on its own. The language never addresses the management. Just stock/assets. Yes? or No?

 

[necigrad]

Article 4: Complete annexation of non-union managers and supervisors with immediate seniority.

Tim, you need to explain this one. I don't see anything about management. Not one. Granted I don't know how the tower in PHX works, nor W&B, but here in LAS I can't come up with one supervisor or manager that this would apply to.

 

[The Bagfather]

Ah yes. I was wondering when someone would seek my council
directly on this weighty matter.

As GF pointed out (which by the way is almost word for
word a sentiment echoed by PF yesterday in SAN) the Company
will easily wriggle out of the COC in a UA merger.
It does seem odd doesn't it? Well here's my explanation.
1. The COC even though it has wage implications years down the
road. up front payouts...Man to tell you the truth I can't
even make a joke out of it.

BTW PF did come by SAN yesterday.. He's going to get back to us
on the rational of how we could be forced into the east contract.
On this subject does anybody remember JH and Tim thier famous
dual of wits on this subject? After Two days Tim finally squeezed this
statement out of JH when asked if Canale had the power to sign the
west over to the east and JH said; "I think so.". During the famous
TA briefing is where Canale instucted his minions to bring this false
threat back to the "masses".

Tim is spot on in his characterization of this contract. It is NOT TA
and should not be called such. A real TA would have merged the
east and west with Items acceptable to both and NO extention. The
COC is the exact reason this was never going to happen..I was a rehire
right when the merger was done. My the sta mgr was very smart. knowlegable
and fair minded. He wondered why I had come back under such conditions.
And the next thing he said is very major. He said that for the most part
the BK contract is lame but that the pay ladder might be a bright spot.
for a new hire. So he must have been assuming that we would go into the
east contract. He was in the loop and very respected so his thoughts on the
subject were what he believed to be true. BTW this corroberates what Tim
has been saying about this time period.

I'm not saying that GF and others don't have a clear view on this but in order
to understand them they need to reveal a lot more about what they know
transpired within the union throughout the last three years. Otherwise
we must conclude that Canale has misunderstood and misrepresented the
entire FS for his own hairbrained "vision". Now as a last gasp they use
the Middle seniority West Hubs, the east FS in west stations and the Class II
stations to give them thier "TA".

Note to low seniority PHX: Your "raise" will be about 8 cents until Dec. then
youll get 9.29 for a month. Then you will go into the TA pay scale. The
effect for all the West is pay raise that at most is 91.3% of what the east
gets. Now just look at one negative. That is insurance. Your new policy
will give you less coverage and cost you more. For amusement sake,
ask any traveling road show expert how much you current insurance will
cost in 2009. The reply will be: I'll get back to you which they won't
So mid range Guys and Gals in PHX vote yes. No one can blame you.
And I'm sorry that I am compleatly and profoundly against this "TA.
Thanks BF.. Joe .. Does that answer your question?
PS. Here's what this should be called. " ACOCFPOSUPAFMATEOTW"
(A Change of contract for porposes of solidifying union positions and
facilitating mergers at the expence of the Workers)...A transitional
agreement? Transitioning two work groups into one for the porposes
of fairness and solidarity? To do justice to both company and workforce?
be serious.

 

[mike33]

Bagfather
Maybe you can answer.

Ask yourselves why the company came to us..........why?

Road

I must have retyped this about 4 times now and each time I keep erasing what I typed. The bottom line is only " The Players " know why and Ive come to

the conclusion that " The Other Guys " want it out.

My take is I think Tim might have hit on something about the lawyers saying to get the COC out, but the " Other " lawyers not ours. For some reason they

didn't like it when presented as a package. Even with its' loss in Sept., which if true, says something for its' merit.

That's my honest feeling.....

Mike

 

[orioleman]

Holy cow Lith,
honey I don't know what meds your taking but they seem and sound pretty effective........

where can I get some.... 😱 😛 😀