IAM Fleet Service topic

[freedom]

Freedom,
I would love to see a signed deal tommorow but I'm not willing to sell out Fleet Service just to allow the Present District Elected morons cut a cozy deal for themselves with management. You wanna put pressure and heat on the company get behind the New Direction ticket.
Canale and the rest of the deadweight we have at the table need to go. They have had there chance for years and brougt us nothing but Bad Communication,Leadership and Reprsentation.

To be honest I’m not entirely certain in the new directions ability to negotiate in good faith . I believe that the new direction slate maybe so far to the right that our union will forced into a corner and made to STRIKE .

I believe that our best chance at achieving a TA may come from our moderate elected officials in power now . The company should also believe this .


To the company , I know you like to wait , even though you may say different publicly . Don’t fool yourselves into thinking that we in the west will stop pushing should or rather WHEN the hardliners come into power , desperation will cause us to push even HARDER as time goes on . You will undoubtedly see more and more desperate acts to bring you to a TA while at the same the you will see our union demanding things that you will think are highly unrealistic , so basically you’ll get to see our operations self destruct through frustration .

What’s that saying , tripping over a dollar to save a nickel , don’t let the forest keep you from seeing the trees Mr hemmingway , get something done NOW with the people sitting at that table with you , BEFORE the hardliners come in , or you will look back and think that the most unreasonable demands being pushed to you now were mild compared to what you’ll be seeing in the future .

 

[roabilly]

Quote: freedom

To be honest I’m not entirely certain in the new directions ability to negotiate in good faith . I believe that the new direction slate maybe so far to the right that our union will forced into a corner and made to STRIKE .
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Freedom…

First it should read …Left…

Nobody…can be made to strike! Again... there is a democratic vote taken before any such action is sanctioned.

I advise you to educate yourself… Read the RLA…familiarize yourself with all applicable Labor Laws before posting blindly…

I’ll assure you that Mr. Nelson, and others that post in this thread have well acquainted themselves with these materials.

 

[freedom]

I know all I need to know about the RLA , I‘ve read it , and I’m not terribly interested in it nor are many of my fellow brothers here in PHX , I give lip service to it because , hey we have to follow the law right ? But as soon as the benefits outweigh the costs of not violating it ,I’m all in .

When I said made to strike , I meant put into a political situation that is so far detached from where we are now that it would be the only viable option left to us to achieve our goals .

And as for right or left , I tend to think right because that’s more conservative and hardcore leaning , left is more liberal and open . These new direction slate guys are mostly hardliner east guys from what I gather .


I do however hope there are some real hard-line radical union guys in the bunch ! That would be awesome , we need some really wild union leaders nowadays

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
"To be honest I’m not entirely certain in the new directions ability to negotiate in good faith . I believe that the new direction slate maybe so far to the right that our union will forced into a corner and made to STRIKE ."

Your a confusing poster, one post you want to burn down the house and rally rally rally and lets show management we mean business ... then you post this''

don't let the word strike scare you.. As long as the IAM is in there won't be.. just look at your current lack of sec 6 .. the word strike scares the hell out of the IAM also.

 

[roabilly]

Hmmmm…Freedom …Freedom…Freedom…

I give up ! … I’m still yer friend though!

! n' tae qbb

yllibaoR

 

[freedom]

freedom,
"To be honest ({so on and so forth } the word strike scares the hell out of the IAM also.

Your talking about the current IAM that’s in office NOW , but soon enough those individuals will most likely be ushered out of office , and THEN we will have new leaders who will be advocating a strike as it gets closer to the expiration of the east contract .

Who said I was scared of a strike ? If it were possible to strike tomorrow I would wholly advocate doing it , of course if that were in fact a REAL possibility of being able to strike tomorrow I think the company would have already offered us more favorable terms , BUT they know our hands are legally tied for quite some time , hence the really shitty TA’s .


What we’re seeing here is the company just pushing further and further until they push us right over the %^$%ing edge .


EDIT :bah take no note of my ramblings roll , i just go into fight mode every time i see the west's future in danger , we’re fighters out here , and we want to win badly .


Anyways , if talks once again fall apart , it is my sincere wish that throughout our entire system , field stations and hubs , east and west , old political team and the new direction team , that we can take action , no more words , real physical actions .

Anyways , you shouldn’t be hearing from me for a few days , good luck to us all

 

[Couldbewrong23]

Your talking about the current IAM that’s in office NOW , but soon enough those individuals will most likely be ushered out of office , and THEN we will have new leaders who will be advocating a strike as it gets closer to the expiration of the east contract .

Who said I was scared of a strike ? If it were possible to strike tomorrow I would wholly advocate doing it , of course if that were in fact a REAL possibility of being able to strike tomorrow I think the company would have already offered us more favorable terms , BUT they know our hands are legally tied for quite some time , hence the really shitty TA’s .


What we’re seeing here is the company just pushing further and further until they push us right over the %^$%ing edge .


EDIT :bah take no note of my ramblings roll , i just go into fight mode every time i see the west's future in danger , we’re fighters out here , and we want to win badly .


Anyways , if talks once again fall apart , it is my sincere wish that throughout our entire system , field stations and hubs , east and west , old political team and the new direction team , that we can take action , no more words , real physical actions .

Anyways , you shouldn’t be hearing from me for a few days , good luck to us all

Freedom i am in phx and feel the pain, i am right there with you! Action do Speak Louder then Words

 

[700UW]

If you all go into section 6 in 09, dont expect anything differant, on the M&R side we have gone as long as 4 1/2 years to achieve a new CBA and not get released by the NMB to strike.

On the average each CBA has taken well over two years to negotiate, we went on strike in 1992 it took three years to reach that point.

Right now unless the political climate changes the NMB wont release anyone to strike.

So ask yourself can you go three more years on the pay levels you have while everything is going up in price?

 

[Planemx]

If you all go into section 6 in 09, dont expect anything differant, on the M&R side we have gone as long as 4 1/2 years to achieve a new CBA and not get released by the NMB to strike.

On the average each CBA has taken well over two years to negotiate, we went on strike in 1992 it took three years to reach that point.

Right now unless the political climate changes the NMB wont release anyone to strike.

So ask yourself can you go three more years on the pay levels you have while everything is going up in price?

the point is not to strike, it is to get a fair contract. You will never understand what it means to be part of a team..........

Comment deleted by moderator...time off given.....who's next.....

 

[700UW]

The only way to get a fair contract in this industry anymore is a strike or threat of one.

I have always been a strong union person, part of the team, actually a leader and have been on the Negotiating Committee.

When you are dealing with Hemenway, Glass and Harbinson, there is no such thing as fair, as you being a Westie, I dont think you realize that yet.

Fair?

It has been almost three years from the merger and only two groups have a combined CBA, Dispatchers and Agents, and those are not very fair agreements.

You are not in a position of strength in negotiations.

 

[Jester]

The only way to get a fair contract in this industry anymore is a strike or threat of one.

I have always been a strong union person, part of the team, actually a leader and have been on the Negotiating Committee.

When you are dealing with Hemenway, Glass and Harbinson, there is no such thing as fair, as you being a Westie, I dont think you realize that yet.

Fair?

It has been almost three years from the merger and only two groups have a combined CBA, Dispatchers and Agents, and those are not very fair agreements.

You are not in a position of strength in negotiations.

700UW,
Strength is relative to issues of supply and demand. The Tempe Boys would be hard pressed to find hundreds, if not thousands of West workers willing to start at $9/hour, especially with the approaching summer heat and vacation travel. On the other hand, those same Tempe Boys would have a much easier time finding thousands of people willing to take the East contract, as is. Of course, it is a matter if the FS would be willing to honor its own strike, which might be why Boss Canale has not been quick to call for West Section 6. Call for a strike and too many people still show up, or worse yet, East eagerly fills in those strikers positions. We know what is the demand for FS workers, but we cannot be sure of the available supply of FS workers if a strike is called.

I think the overwhelming number of West people would leap at the chance to get the East contract, regardless of some mythically large advantage West benefits has within its contract as foisted by some on this board. (By the way, for any FSA who can explain to me how the West vs. East benefits are worth more than $10,000/year [2,080 hours per year x $5 pay raise], I would be more than willing to enjoy your humorous explanation.)


And Freedom,
How does that "Brotherhood Bromide" taste? Ya know... to paraphrase the Easties on the board, "We are all in this together so hang-on because your day will come after 2009 once our contract is amendable." ::::burp::::

Sorry Westies, it doesn't matter how long we have waited or how much we have paid in dues, the East and the IAM does not really care about us. We are nothing more than a tool for their benefit. In the meanwhile, avoid the corporate Kool-Aid and the IAM's "Brotherhood Bromide" because you will just have a bad hang-over once the morning reality provides a moment of clarity. In the meanwhile, I'll be sleeping off a hang-over on the bag room couch.

So Brews Jester.

 

[700UW]

The East wont fill any striking jobs on the West, same union, same company and the East CBA contains language that no one has to cross a picket line to come to work and will not be discilpined for not crossing a sanctioned strike with a picket line.

Even if the west went into Section 6 it would be at least two years before they reach an impasse to trigger the 30 day cooling off period.

 

[rat tales]

700,

I don't get you. You seem to be the pro union guy, you know everything about negotiations, but it appears that you show fear when it comes to making a stand. Fleet has not had the opportunity to gain language or scope in their contract through traditional contract negotiations. I am well aware of your self promoting "prowess" at being a "negotiator". As you have admitted, what you were a part of was not negotiations but bankruptcy manipulation, and your group failed miserably. I think that scarred you in way that you feel that cut and run is the best solution.
We, Fleet, have existed under a "first contract" for coming up on 10 years. Accepting another shell game, money shuffling, job and scope compromising, zero cost agreement in lieu of extending traditional negotiations an additional 4 more years is chicken s##t. We as a group need to start the clock as soon as we possibly can. We have screamed at the top of our lungs at our leadership for 2 years that the Section 6 card should be thrown.
Our opportunity is approaching. Delaying it for zero gain is not smart. Bankruptcy is over and we want this sucky BK language gone! We don't care how long it takes to negotiate a new contract. You can't hit a home run if your to scared to step up to the plate!

I said it,

 

[700UW]

Ok, lets say you succede in getting section 6 for the west, what good will it do when it takes several years to get a new cba and what good would it do for the east?

 

[rat tales]

The clock doesn't tick until you wind it up.

Think outside the box. We are in merger frenzy. We would have 2 open contracts from 2 angry groups negotiated not only separately but in concert. Potential merger partners would balk seeing the havoc involved in the merger attempt and would potentially walk. Naysayers would attempt to place the blame on our group that this could harm the company. Our spin could be that the company has caused this division and that their divisive will is the true cause of our inability to find a merger partner.
There will definitely be alot of pressure to settle the disputes not only with our group but with the pilot group. I am putting money on it that they will find a way. And it will be to our benefit.
What is that phrase? "You can pay me now or you can pay me later"