lithuanian
Senior
- Feb 2, 2006
- 469
- 0
Amongst all the current slang and opinions we can make money on the new vote NOW! And can get along with that. Same here. But! What' it worth to give away your voting rights with the CIC!
IAM Fleet Service topic (Mini Thread)
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
- Status
Tim,
I would first like to say that this is a POS contract but my counterparts here in PHX sound as if they will be big yes votes again. The problem I have with voting no on this contract is factoring in the time value of money. If I'm not mistaken and we vote no and we merge with United that the east employees would be stuck at $17.87/ hr. top pay and the west employees would be at $15.20 top pay. Now, if transition talks go anything like these transitions talks, it could be 2011 or even later for a topped out west employee to see anything. Tim, I'll reiterate that I think this contract sux but the last time a senior employee in the west got a raise was 2000. The possibility of waiting 11 or more years for a raise is criminal.
I would first like to say that this is a POS contract but my counterparts here in PHX sound as if they will be big yes votes again. The problem I have with voting no on this contract is factoring in the time value of money. If I'm not mistaken and we vote no and we merge with United that the east employees would be stuck at $17.87/ hr. top pay and the west employees would be at $15.20 top pay. Now, if transition talks go anything like these transitions talks, it could be 2011 or even later for a topped out west employee to see anything. Tim, I'll reiterate that I think this contract sux but the last time a senior employee in the west got a raise was 2000. The possibility of waiting 11 or more years for a raise is criminal.
727_4_Ever
Member
- Oct 23, 2006
- 48
- 0
Obviously as a group we'll never agree on the CIC language and whether it's important or not. As for my reasons for voting no on the last T/A I had plenty and the CIC hearing in no way swayed me to vote no. I felt the contract offered was no where near what this company could offer compared to what other airlines were doing for their Fleet Service. I do remember them saying they wouldn't be back but back they came. I personally don't believe for one minute that they won't be back again. I don't for one minute believe that we can hold them from merging but I do believe that we are causing problems for a smooth deal to be cut. Doug has a bad reputation for this mess he's in for not being fair to his employees and bringing morale and customer service to all time lows. Look at how Delta treated him. It wasn't that they were against merging as they realize everyone is going to get in the game or be lost, they just weren't about to team up with this crappy run operation. Here is a quote off of Yahoo Business to give you a feel for how Parker and US Airways are looked upon.
"News reports have speculated that US Airways could be in talks with United and American Airlines. But industry observers disagree about whether those pairings would work.
Michael Boyd, an airline consultant in Colorado, said US Airways has been tainted by operational problems and union fights since its previous combination in 2005.
"If you're United or American, why would you embrace something that's been nothing but problems?" Boyd said. "It just strikes me that Parker wants to merge something. I don't know why." "
Not too Good. So while I don't think we can stop the mergers from happening as I think very soon there will be announcement after announcement on everyone joining in or being left behind, I do think the CIC and our unsettled contracts are hurting the boys in Tempe. Just do the right thing Al and give us some respect and it'll all be fine. Another week vacation is a must, pension increase a must, 20.00/hr with raises to come a must (still below CO), some job security a must, Holiday pay a must, full sick pay a must. These things would not kill the golden goose as they want you to believe. The airlines that failed recently and the mergers will cut capacity to where airlines will be making a killing. While they want you to believe that the failings of ATA, Skybus, etc. are signaling doom and gloom for them it's really great news because capacity they need cut is being done for them. Delta and Northwest got the ball rolling and now everyone will join in or be left behind. No one is denying what's going on which definitely tells you it won't be long. I for one will not vote to keep myself at the bottom of this industry especially when we'll be merging with someone with a better deal and then we'll be stuck like the guys out west are now. No seven inning rule here let's play the whole game. Everyone has suffered this far so don't quit now as you're almost there. Good luck to everyone.....hang on for the ride.
"News reports have speculated that US Airways could be in talks with United and American Airlines. But industry observers disagree about whether those pairings would work.
Michael Boyd, an airline consultant in Colorado, said US Airways has been tainted by operational problems and union fights since its previous combination in 2005.
"If you're United or American, why would you embrace something that's been nothing but problems?" Boyd said. "It just strikes me that Parker wants to merge something. I don't know why." "
Not too Good. So while I don't think we can stop the mergers from happening as I think very soon there will be announcement after announcement on everyone joining in or being left behind, I do think the CIC and our unsettled contracts are hurting the boys in Tempe. Just do the right thing Al and give us some respect and it'll all be fine. Another week vacation is a must, pension increase a must, 20.00/hr with raises to come a must (still below CO), some job security a must, Holiday pay a must, full sick pay a must. These things would not kill the golden goose as they want you to believe. The airlines that failed recently and the mergers will cut capacity to where airlines will be making a killing. While they want you to believe that the failings of ATA, Skybus, etc. are signaling doom and gloom for them it's really great news because capacity they need cut is being done for them. Delta and Northwest got the ball rolling and now everyone will join in or be left behind. No one is denying what's going on which definitely tells you it won't be long. I for one will not vote to keep myself at the bottom of this industry especially when we'll be merging with someone with a better deal and then we'll be stuck like the guys out west are now. No seven inning rule here let's play the whole game. Everyone has suffered this far so don't quit now as you're almost there. Good luck to everyone.....hang on for the ride.
lithuanian
Senior
- Feb 2, 2006
- 469
- 0
I find it quite an odd HONOR that P.Rez responds. We are selling our Souls to IAM for 4 dollars an hour.
We deserve more! This group called IAM displaced TWU! We in the West are learning by experience that unions have not been our best friends. And, it is the membership between AWA/US AIRWAYS that needs to bring IAM to their senses!
We deserve more! This group called IAM displaced TWU! We in the West are learning by experience that unions have not been our best friends. And, it is the membership between AWA/US AIRWAYS that needs to bring IAM to their senses!
Ramp Rogue
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 724
- 81
To all that post on these boards, it would help those that read these boards if punctuation and proper spelling is used. It is hard to understand what you mean if you don't use the right word or words for what you intend on saying. Commas and periods are quite useful if placed correctly. Many words sound the same, but have different spellings. Please take notice of them and use them in the right context.
1. there - their - they're
2. our - are - or - hour
3. lose - loose
4. then - than
5. were - we're - where
These are a few of the words that I have noticed that were used in the wrong context.
Rogue
1. there - their - they're
2. our - are - or - hour
3. lose - loose
4. then - than
5. were - we're - where
These are a few of the words that I have noticed that were used in the wrong context.
Rogue
redeye
Senior
- Aug 17, 2007
- 263
- 0
PR,
Did you not negotiate that contract in 1999. Why did your group ratify
a contract with wages as poor as that. All we are fighting for is what is
fair. The positives in no way offset the negatives. If this were a extension
of your TWU contract I can see your position. But it is not. We are being
asked to take concessions to integrate members who accepted the pay
rate they are at. We were pounded in bankruptcy court and are being
asked to give again.
We only hope that the west understands that what we want are improvements
but not in exchange for jobs and not at a three for one exchange rate.
Thanks
orioleman
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2007
- 1,669
- 64
urbf,
"Article 7, 60 day rule is gone. Those poor unfortunates who were furloughed have 6 months to come back after we all vote this in. They lose nothing. Those who are back as HP lose nothing. I can't wait for those bigs guys to come back!"
read it again . the words prior to OEI render the 60 day rule useless. and YES I am sure we gave up a concession to have wording put in our contract that will not
be applicable after the OEI or ratification . Unless the company plans on reopening those cities before we vote . NOTE..
"Article 7, 60 day rule is gone. Those poor unfortunates who were furloughed have 6 months to come back after we all vote this in. They lose nothing. Those who are back as HP lose nothing. I can't wait for those bigs guys to come back!"
read it again . the words prior to OEI render the 60 day rule useless. and YES I am sure we gave up a concession to have wording put in our contract that will not
be applicable after the OEI or ratification . Unless the company plans on reopening those cities before we vote . NOTE..
Redeye, that contract was ratified because we had nothing. I was hired in at $6.95/hour and those wages were frozen. We actualyl got quite a lot, which truly says how piss poor we were being treated. You've got no idea how many grievances were filed after signing it was so bad. Now I feel like I'm getting treated just as bad, but by my union!
Hey.. Chill Out
Veteran
- Dec 16, 2007
- 501
- 3
orioleman
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2007
- 1,669
- 64
p rez,
"I would first like to say that this is a POS contract but my counterparts here in PHX sound as if they will be big yes votes again. The problem I have with voting no on this contract is factoring in the time value of money. If I'm not mistaken and we vote no and we merge with United that the east employees would be stuck at $17.87/ hr. top pay and the west employees would be at $15.20 top pay. Now, if transition talks go anything like these transitions talks, it could be 2011 or even later for a topped out west employee to see anything. Tim, I'll reiterate that I think this contract sux but the last time a senior employee in the west got a raise was 2000. The possibility of waiting 11 or more years for a raise is criminal."
first welcome to the board.
Now 2 scenarios
if you were an investor which horse would you put your money behind.
horse no.1 USairways buys UA = Canale and CO get US and UA ramp under a POS bk contract . (RLA says surviving UNION in this case US is the contract they go under)
horse no2 UA buys US = we go under UA contract with much enhancements . Remember UA contract is amendable in 09 also.
so being an investor which horse would you pick.
looks like Canale kills 2 birds with one POS RAG so called T/A .
something to think about.
I wouldn't want to explain to 10,000 UA folks why they lost holidays / doubletime / 21 something an hour and scope language because Canale said it was the best we could do.
maybe just maybe that is WHY the CO and Canale WANT this CIC out of our contract for a few pieces of silver
"I would first like to say that this is a POS contract but my counterparts here in PHX sound as if they will be big yes votes again. The problem I have with voting no on this contract is factoring in the time value of money. If I'm not mistaken and we vote no and we merge with United that the east employees would be stuck at $17.87/ hr. top pay and the west employees would be at $15.20 top pay. Now, if transition talks go anything like these transitions talks, it could be 2011 or even later for a topped out west employee to see anything. Tim, I'll reiterate that I think this contract sux but the last time a senior employee in the west got a raise was 2000. The possibility of waiting 11 or more years for a raise is criminal."
first welcome to the board.
Now 2 scenarios
if you were an investor which horse would you put your money behind.
horse no.1 USairways buys UA = Canale and CO get US and UA ramp under a POS bk contract . (RLA says surviving UNION in this case US is the contract they go under)
horse no2 UA buys US = we go under UA contract with much enhancements . Remember UA contract is amendable in 09 also.
so being an investor which horse would you pick.
looks like Canale kills 2 birds with one POS RAG so called T/A .
something to think about.
I wouldn't want to explain to 10,000 UA folks why they lost holidays / doubletime / 21 something an hour and scope language because Canale said it was the best we could do.
maybe just maybe that is WHY the CO and Canale WANT this CIC out of our contract for a few pieces of silver
Ramp Rogue
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 724
- 81
How did the informational meetings go in BWI, LAX, PHX, OAK, PIT, BUR, IND, BOS, ELP?
Rogue
Rogue
orioleman
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2007
- 1,669
- 64
Randy Canale sez,
Your choice will be between accepting the proposed changes now, or waiting for traditional negotiations to resume in 2009"
Hey Tim or any of our loyal Iam pro Canale people ,
can you answer this for me . I luckily still have a copy of randys aug letter but went looking on the IAM website to do a cut and paste
and can't find it anywhere . it was there the other day . WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS AUG LETTER HE SENT TO THE MASSES AND WHY
WAS IT PULLED OFF THE WEBSITE..
things that make you go hmmm
any way this what he said back then
and i quote "Your choice will be between accepting the proposed changes now, or waiting for traditional negotiations to resume in 2009"
hey guys sound familiar.
Your choice will be between accepting the proposed changes now, or waiting for traditional negotiations to resume in 2009"
Hey Tim or any of our loyal Iam pro Canale people ,
can you answer this for me . I luckily still have a copy of randys aug letter but went looking on the IAM website to do a cut and paste
and can't find it anywhere . it was there the other day . WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS AUG LETTER HE SENT TO THE MASSES AND WHY
WAS IT PULLED OFF THE WEBSITE..
things that make you go hmmm
any way this what he said back then
and i quote "Your choice will be between accepting the proposed changes now, or waiting for traditional negotiations to resume in 2009"
hey guys sound familiar.
Hey.. Chill Out
Veteran
- Dec 16, 2007
- 501
- 3
I remember hearing that from the IAM reps in PHX, and reading that, AND telling my brothers in PHX that it was a lie.
Well, maybe not a lie, but misguided.
Well, maybe not a lie, but misguided.
Orioleman.
Here is my scenario, we vote down this POS contract and we don't merge with anyone, Canale wins re-election and then puts the west people under the current contract. Also factor in that it takes 4 years to negotiate a new contract and our new top out wage as of 1/2014 is $24/hr. with a 2% raise in 2015.
Horse A: Accept T/A and my salary as a topped out west employee would equal $302,033 from 1/1/09 thru 12/31/15.
Horse B: Take my scenario above and my salary for same period would equal $293,749.
Which horse would you take now?
Here is my scenario, we vote down this POS contract and we don't merge with anyone, Canale wins re-election and then puts the west people under the current contract. Also factor in that it takes 4 years to negotiate a new contract and our new top out wage as of 1/2014 is $24/hr. with a 2% raise in 2015.
Horse A: Accept T/A and my salary as a topped out west employee would equal $302,033 from 1/1/09 thru 12/31/15.
Horse B: Take my scenario above and my salary for same period would equal $293,749.
Which horse would you take now?
Redeye,
The TWU contract appears as if it was the worst contract ever until you look at the history of AWA. Consider that when the Union was voted in at AWA the top out was $10.77/hr. and as a 12 year employee I wasn't there yet. Also, consider that after bankruptcy it was going to take about 18 years to get to that $10.77/hr.
Thanks
The TWU contract appears as if it was the worst contract ever until you look at the history of AWA. Consider that when the Union was voted in at AWA the top out was $10.77/hr. and as a 12 year employee I wasn't there yet. Also, consider that after bankruptcy it was going to take about 18 years to get to that $10.77/hr.
Thanks
- Status
Similar threads
