Iam 142 Final Offer

[AP Tech]

"They are unlikely to relocate to PHL, DCA, CLT and the larger stations where we have all the openings; so utility guys will be able to get them."

Ok Hawk,so you are suggesting furloughed mechanics and related take open fleet service positions at I presume starting wage rate which last time I checked was $7.18 an hour I believe......part time of course.....and for many it will involve relocating. For a part time job at $7.18 does that make any sense? Last I checked many places paid that much for part time help. We may be confused but not stupid!!!!

"It is better to have a job when looking for a job than not to have one."

Sounds like a certain Captain we all know....

"If the IAM rejects this proposal, we will implement the 1113c proposal made in October. It is much worse. "

Now I must ask, is the company prepared in the event that the IAM withdraws its services? Look at what happened in Phl with a few sick calls! I doubt it, the company will fold!!!

The big seller will be the severence package if it is there as has been stated but I seriously doubt? I have to admit that if there is an acceptable severence package the majority will vote yes just so they can get away from this "mis-managed" sorry excuse for a company. I myself feel this way as I do not wish to be part of employee giveback #4!!!!

 

[repeet]

Bump

 

[Phoenix]

It will pass by 60%. You heard it here first.

[post="237158"][/post]​

Don't worry... If it doesn't pass then it means y'all were confused and you will have a revote.

 

[awayfrmitall]

ok question.....

I think I saw either in this thread or another one that the severance package is paid in three installments over three years...

Is this correct or was I misreading something?

 

[700UW]

Severence is normal, one week per year upto 15 weeks paid weekly.

 

[justaumechanic]

Severence is normal, one week per year upto 15 weeks paid weekly.

[post="237526"][/post]​

If this package does not pass do you really think that the company is going to have severance in the imposed package!! You would be dreaming.

And don't be the least bit suprised if the severance payout has all types of little hoops to jump thru.

Something like this "If you have the oppotunity to take a position in another city and you refuse no severance, if you have the ability to downgrade to a lower classification and you refuse no severance, if you are placed out on the street due to a bump and not due to a redution in your department no severance. You know little things that show up after you vote.

And 700 lets be clear on something. We all can read. What was it two years ago when we voted in the contract when the final copy came down (the book) low and behold there were things in it the book that were not, and I repeat, were not in the contract we voted on. When the Grand Wizard was asked "Hey Dude, whats this stuff". Oh we just forgot to include it and it was a non issue".. HUH?

If my memory serves me correctly we are supposed to VOTE on the entire contract, not the part the IAM feels we should see.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,

However, how do you motivate folks in a union, who have been programmed by managmnets to hate their union and distrust them.

Its called leadership, and there doesnt seem to be any sign of it over in the IAM, or the AA/TWU either. The lack of leadership is not the fault of the membership, its the fault of the structure of your union and those running it.

I've seen many members whose lives have been destroyed by corporate raiders, yet these folks blame their leadership.

And they should, because the "leaders" have failed them. The members fork over money every month to these guys that are supposed to plan out stategies and actions. To organize the members and provide them with information to counter what the company is putting out. Todays unions more often than not simply repeat the company, in the case of the TWU they even exaggerate the company's claims. The IAM has said they dont endorse this, but have they offered a plan? Did they even bother to formulate one? Even if the situation is hopeless they are still collecting dues, they still should be working.

These people get into positions they cant handle yet they fight like hell to keep them. If they simply put half as much effort into fighting for the members they should not have to worry about their position, however that is where the structure kicks in. Most unions do not allow the rank and file to pick the top leaders.

During my trial I told the International that I was elected by the members and my primary loyalty is to them, not the International. I have to fight for my members first. The International claimed that statement was a violation of my oath as a TWU officer which says nothing about loyalty to the members but Loyalty to the International and the Union.

When leaders are not chosen by the members they have to go the extra mile to earn their trust, we dont see that in the TWU or the IAM. Instead the leaders constantly berate the members for lack of "participation". In the meantime they have done nothing to earn their trust, if they had been elected at least they would have had a start but todays union leaders do not want the members to pick the leaders because they do not trust the membership.

So the sham about the lack of membership involvement being the cause of todays weak unions is just a ruse. If the leaders truly wanted membership involvement then they would let the members choose who fills the top positions of the Union.

Leaders step out in front, that is what the word lead means. The people we have running unions today are too worried that if they do step out front they will turn around and nobody will be there, so they dont lead. They know the members did not pick them and perhaps their worries are justified. It simply means that their presence in that position is harmful to the union, not that the members are wrong. If the so called "leaders" have no faith in their members how can you expect the members to have faith in their leaders?

Members have to get balls. But their balls are little "milk duds" that get squeezed.

The members may have milk duds but the "leaders" dont have anything.

The first step the members need to take is to vote out the structure which puts people in power who cant or wont lead, get new unions, once you have a democratic union where all the leaders are diretly democratically accountable to the members and a union that the members chose then the statement "the union is you" is real, not just rhetoric.

The fact is that nodody presently working chose the IAM or the TWU.They were in place when we got hired and our membership is conditional upon our employment with the company that hired us. Membership is mandatory. So in reality our union is part of the package that came with the job, not the career path we chose. Leave the job and go somewhere else you get a new union, same deal. Is it any wonder why management is able to turn guys against their union? They pay us and tell us what to do, we pay the union and they do as they please.

While there may be many present IAM union officials who are genuine in their intent their loyalty to the organization and its hiearchy often clouds their judgement. They know that the union is screwed up an ineffective and have accepted the explaination for this that the leaders give-"its the members". When in fact its the leaders.

The first step is to either go to the AGW or AMFA. Those are the only two organizations available to airline workers that allow airline workers to have a direct say in who leads them.Perhaps then new and real Leaders can emerge and once the members see that those milk duds will be like watermellons, but everything takes time.

 

[N617P]

Severence is 15 weeks, not 19 for the IAM Mechanic and Related.

[post="237381"][/post]​

Yes it is 15 weeks.You have to add in 4 weeks vacation we have earned for this year. B)

 

[Bob Owens]

If this package does not pass do you really think that the company is going to have severance in the imposed package!! You would be dreaming.

And don't be the least bit suprised if the severance payout has all types of little hoops to jump thru.

Something like this "If you have the oppotunity to take a position in another city and you refuse no severance, if you have the ability to downgrade to a lower classification and you refuse no severance, if you are placed out on the street due to a bump and not due to a redution in your department no severance. You know little things that show up after you vote.

And 700 lets be clear on something. We all can read. What was it two years ago when we voted in the contract when the final copy came down (the book) low and behold there were things in it the book that were not, and I repeat, were not in the contract we voted on. When the Grand Wizard was asked "Hey Dude, whats this stuff". Oh we just forgot to include it and it was a non issue".. HUH?

If my memory serves me correctly we are supposed to VOTE on the entire contract, not the part the IAM feels we should see.

[post="237537"][/post]​

Well the sad fact is that the IAM does not even have to let you vote on the contract, they can simply impose it.

The reason why they can get away with withholding information is because they dont even have to let you vote on it.

Your recourse is that you can vote out your union.

 

[planejane]

Sounds like the 142 contract is pretty bad. IAM sacraficed money to the AP mechanic to hold onto more jobs. hear some are taking more than 21%, no shift differential, loss of holidays,,,,,,,,,sounds like a continious severence package until you can find another job. Yep, keep paying those IAM dues.........

 

[700UW]

Planejane, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

This is not a tentative agreement, the IAM did not agree to it!

It is a final offer from the company.

You are just trying to stir the crap.

 

[BoeingBoy]

From my perch it boils down to who has whom over a barrel.....

There are those who say that the IAM groups had better accept this deal because it will only be worse with "imposition" - even Hawk posted that on here the other day.

So my question is this. If the IAM would suffer more (which means lower costs for the company) under "imposition", why is the company bending over backward to let the IAM groups vote? Could it be that the company knows that "imposition" could result in job actions that will cause the company to fail?

So which side is nervous.....

Jim

 

[justaumechanic]

I IAM agreed to this package 4 months ago.. They just went to CCY to have coffee and donuts..

They have not negotiated a contract in 10 years.

And it will pass with flying colors and there might be 3 mechanics and a stock clerk that will strike, the rest will go in like sheep to a slaughter house.

 

[Bob Owens]

Planejane, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

This is not a tentative agreement, the IAM did not agree to it!

It is a final offer from the company.

You are just trying to stir the crap.

[post="237698"][/post]​

In the end whats the difference? If they ratify it they are stuck with it to 2011 and the IAM gets to sit back and collect dues while at the same time claiming that they did not "endorse" it.


The fact is the IAM is not leading, the "We dont endorse it" followed by having their low level officials and stewards run around telling members that if they dont accept it they will get a worse deal means that they really want the members to vote YES but do not want to be held accountable.

They want you to vote yes because its easier for them.

Here is one reason why as a member you are better off voting NO.

2011

The company can not turn around and impose a contract on you that does not become renegotiable till 2011. Neither can the judge unless he figures that USAIR will still be under bankruptcy protection in 2011. However if you vote Yes you are screwed till 2011.

They claim that with these new concessions they hope to exit BK. So vote NO, let them take the concessions, if they take more, you can strike, if they dont restore them when you exit BK you can strike, in fact since the agreement was abrogated and they imposed new terms you will no longer have to wait until 2009(? Second round of cencessions) to strike for better wages if the company prospers. By voting NO you should be in better shape than you were before because you have options. "No contract" does not automatically mean that you will strike.

Your union should solicit a meeting with the creditors to let them know that they are willing to help out but there is no way that they can make such a disadvantageous agreement for such an extended period of time. They should ask what terms they have agreed to for comparasion. This would be a PR move more than anything else but it could change the dynamics.

The key point is that if you agree to this contract your career is over anyway, not only at USAIR but the rest of the industry because of the effect that your agreement will have at other carriers. Two years ago when all this craziness started I said that once they got concessions they would just keep coming back. Your concessions would simply be matched by other unions and your concessions would have accomplished nothing for the company but simply lower your income and savings, making you even more vulnerable if the company should fail anyway. I knew the TWU would lead the pack as far as concessions go, thats why I knew it was so important to try and get IAM members to stop it before it started, the IAM used to have a good reputation although nobody has showed up on the scene of the caliber of Charlie Bryan.

The best you can hope to acheive by voting yes is that you might have a job in the future but it will pay you around 40% less than what you used to get. At 40% less, with little chance of getting better will this job be worth it? The best you can expect by voting yes is that you might have a job with no future today that will prevent you from moving on.

Lets face the facts here. From a membership perspective the unions are busted. The only thing that remains are the dues. Payable to the IAM Incorporated.

 

[usfliboi]

Its an agreement to the extent, iam couldnt legalally agree to the loss of all the utility jobs. Believe me Iam knew what it was doing.. its call CYA