Huge pay raise for Delta/NW pilots..ONLY

[2BlacknBlue]

when banks do not lend or limit how much.. people cannot secure loans for new cars, that is not the workers fault.

I agree, it cannot but it can determine how it will be handled and any/all changes must be given by consent.

honestly, this does not make any sense.

Dig,
What the executive pawn meant was union---bad, executive greed---good! :down:

 

[dapoes]

when banks do not lend or limit how much.. people cannot secure loans for new cars, that is not the workers fault.

I agree, it cannot but it can determine how it will be handled and any/all changes must be given by consent.

honestly, this does not make any sense.

Your not getting what I was referring to. I was not blaming the workers.

Despite popular union views, businesses create jobs, not unions. When the increased costs forced upon the business due to overly aggressive unions those costs are going to passed onto the supply chain and the final consumer. When business fails to bring in those profits then companies will trim labor or shutdown completely. Businesses will look for alternatives to US Labor altogether and more foreign work will be done via outsourcing.

Perfect example is the UAW who raped and pillaged the auto industry (along with poor business decisions) and to no surprise, the auto industry is looking for a bailout $$$ as well. LINK
If this doesn't infuriate you then I guess nothing does. Personally there is something to be said for letting them go bankrupt so they can start over...minus the UAW.

That's why there is much opposition to Obama's promise to the Unions for the EFCA (see article)
When Obama took the path of least resistance for campaign $$$ and bedded with the unions on this matter, the economy was in much different place. In this past few months alone we have seen epic financial and employment losses and by all indications we have only seen the tip of the iceberg. To think that the Forced-Union-Act (AKA EFCA) is going to be at the top of his agenda would be miss. Thats why there was no mention of it at his press conference on friday. Chances are if it does pass, it would be highly modified (same secret election process, shorter election period) or get shelved altogether.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Dig,
What the executive pawn meant was union---bad, executive greed---good! :down:

Does the pawn (dapoes) EVER work?? I've never seen one person troll a board as much as this one..leading me to believe that perhaps two people are posting under one name. If not, then Delta is paying this mgt.person to sluff off practically 24/7 (so much for productivity). If dapoes is a line f/a, then apparently she doesn't fly very much thus causing me to wonder why she expends so much time and energy defending a company's anti-union stance when she has so little invested in said company. A lot of it just doesn't ad up.

 

[Kev3188]

Instead of DL spending millions to keep us from organizing, why haven't they just spent the money on ensuring that we ARE paid industry standard, thus giving us an incentive not to want to organize?

Because it is much easier (and cheaper) to wage a campaign of misinformation.

They are banking on you guys to buy in to what they're selling. Frankly, every ACS employee at DL should be insulted at how stupid upper management thinks you are.

You can also guarantee that if the Delta ramp agents don't vote a union in with the NW agents, you are going to see the NW stations decimated. Hold up! Do I hear Anderson licking his chops at the outstations he's going to contract out?
P.S. Save the bold print for future reference.

Believe it.

Anderson already said that they'd re-evaluate every station on a "city-by-city" basis after the representation votes were decided...

 

[Dignity]

I was not blaming the workers.

Ok...I was trying to understand until you posted the following...

When the increased costs forced upon the business due to overly aggressive unions those costs are going to passed onto the supply chain and the final consumer. When business fails to bring in those profits then companies will trim labor or shutdown completely. Businesses will look for alternatives to US Labor altogether and more foreign work will be done via outsourcing.

you just blamed the workers! you even went so far to write they(workers) will also be responsible for foreign outsourcing! what is your definition of "increased costs"? maintaining or establishing health insurance? an adequate living wage? people having an interest(a voice) in the whole process?

Dapoes, I truly appreciate different points of views, but you are going in circles with your opinions on this one and it can be perceived hypocritical.

 

[dapoes]

Ok...I was trying to understand until you posted the following...



you just blamed the workers! you even went so far to write they(workers) will also be responsible for foreign outsourcing! what is your definition of "increased costs"? maintaining or establishing health insurance? an adequate living wage? people having an interest(a voice) in the whole process?

Dapoes, I truly appreciate different points of views, but you are going in circles with your opinions on this one and it can be perceived hypocritical.

Wrong again Dig, you are apparently having a comprehension problem. Let me highlight what im referring to to make it easier for you:

When the increased costs forced upon the business due to overly aggressive unions those costs are going to passed onto the supply chain and the final consumer. When business fails to bring in those profits then companies will trim labor or shutdown completely. Businesses will look for alternatives to US Labor altogether and more foreign work will be done via outsourcing.

Is that more clear now? Do I need to draw a picture for you?

 

[Dignity]

Do I need to draw a picture for you?

No thank you... but you can write a letter of apology for your lack of tact and class!

Dapoes,
you highlighted business, yet your post was in regard to union which would cause the "business" to increase costs, the union is the workers...
the workers are the union...you blamed the workers for increased business costs!
a suggestion, pay attention to what you write!

Because I do!

 

[T5towbar]

Dapoes.

Please stop comparing us to the Autoworkers and the UAW.
This is like apples and oranges. Both sides in that debacle have made mistakes, but management dropped the ball on this one, plain and simple.

The economy is tanking because of greed and speculation. Perfect example of this was the so called "fuel crisis" when oil was over $125.00 - nearing $150.00 a barrel earlier this year, and all of the airlines had to cut employees; retire least fuel efficient aircraft; and other measures to save cost. Now oil is at or below $100.00 a barrel (until OPEC raises it by lowering production). What happened? All of us know that the airline business is a cyclical one.....good times some years, and bad ones too. But you have to take into account that airlines have been mismanaged since the days of Lorenzo, and the BK's that happened afterwards. Then to top it off, after 9/11 hit, NONE of us was working. So we then made even more sacrifices (which some were necessary, IMHO) for our survival.

What we are asking for is not unreasonable in today's workplace market. This is not the UAW. (They have their own problems) Even IF we got everything back that we lost, that total would not be a burden on our airlines bottom line.

So don't criticize your "new" NW group, just because they are Union. They have been dealing with Anderson (who learned his craft at the feet of Lorenzo) far longer than you have, and I see the reasoning for why they want a CBA in writing.

There's plenty of executive mismanagement in the airline business. Just ask any ex-United employee who lost his pension. You can't keep on defending some of these management guys.

Thank GOD that my boss knows how to run an airline (but we can still do better)


BTW: You think any of us is gonna get a profit sharing check next year? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dapoes]

No thank you... but you can write a letter of apology for your lack of tact and class!

Dapoes,
you highlighted business, yet your post was in regard to union which would cause the "business" to increase costs, the union is the workers...
the workers are the union...you blamed the workers for increased business costs!
a suggestion, pay attention to what you write!

Because I do!

Right, and the union dues pay goes back to themselves, not the union machine right? :blink:
We all know the employees dangle from the union puppet strings. Theres no greater proponent of mediocrity than organized labor.

 

[dapoes]

Dapoes.

Please stop comparing us to the Autoworkers and the UAW.
This is like apples and oranges. Both sides in that debacle have made mistakes, but management dropped the ball on this one, plain and simple.

The economy is tanking because of greed and speculation. Perfect example of this was the so called "fuel crisis" when oil was over $125.00 - nearing $150.00 a barrel earlier this year, and all of the airlines had to cut employees; retire least fuel efficient aircraft; and other measures to save cost. Now oil is at or below $100.00 a barrel (until OPEC raises it by lowering production). What happened? All of us know that the airline business is a cyclical one.....good times some years, and bad ones too. But you have to take into account that airlines have been mismanaged since the days of Lorenzo, and the BK's that happened afterwards. Then to top it off, after 9/11 hit, NONE of us was working. So we then made even more sacrifices (which some were necessary, IMHO) for our survival.

What we are asking for is not unreasonable in today's workplace market. This is not the UAW. (They have their own problems) Even IF we got everything back that we lost, that total would not be a burden on our airlines bottom line.

So don't criticize your "new" NW group, just because they are Union. They have been dealing with Anderson (who learned his craft at the feet of Lorenzo) far longer than you have, and I see the reasoning for why they want a CBA in writing.

There's plenty of executive mismanagement in the airline business. Just ask any ex-United employee who lost his pension. You can't keep on defending some of these management guys.

Thank GOD that my boss knows how to run an airline (but we can still do better)


BTW: You think any of us is gonna get a profit sharing check next year? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Not defending management, they have their issues. Im just not sold 100% on AFA in our situation.

 

[Dignity]

Right, and the union dues pay goes back to themselves, not the union machine right?

I never commented on that at all! as a matter of fact my posts are in regard to your comments..
why are you referring to a completely different subject, when your post was in regard to business costs and subsequent increase? business costs and individual contributions are two different issues.

 

[dapoes]

I never commented on that at all! as a matter of fact my posts are in regard to your comments..
why are you referring to a completely different subject, when your post was in regard to business costs and subsequent increase? business costs and individual contributions are two different issues.

I'm sorry you cant see the connection I was trying to make. Perfect example is the UAW and the condition of the auto industry. If you fail to see anything wrong with that, then you never will see what i mean.

 

[Dignity]

I'm sorry you cant see the connection I was trying to make.

I thought you were apologizing and then I see you werent!

Perfect example is the UAW and the condition of the auto industry.

I understand there is a host of factors that has contributed to the current state of the economy and in particular your reference, and it is not isolated.

if you fail to see anything wrong with that, then you never will see what i mean.

I comprehend what you write and imply a little more than you give credit, it would be at minimum..professional, a hint of courtesy on your part if you tried to do the same.

 

[dapoes]

I comprehend what you write and imply a little more than you give credit, it would be at minimum..professional, a hint of courtesy on your part if you tried to do the same.

Yes you are correct, and to you I apologize.

 

[Dignity]

I apologize.

Thank you.

Dapoes,
there is value working together through issues that need to be dealt with...incorporating best business practices learned from cooperative initiatives led
by both groups going forward(regardless how it all eventually plays out). workable solutions, combined with mutual respect will equal potential success for all.

I wish you a pleasant day.