NW Pilots Try To Keep Merger Alive

[LukeAisleWalker]

DL and NW would never make it together. Even now some at NW still have bitter feelings over the "Ducks" and all that they brought to the table.

There are problems enough at all airlines, but one known for their over-stressed, unhappy, bitter employees would not make a good combo with ANYONE. My NW f/a friends all roll their eyes when griping about short-staffing, no movies, etc..with the same statement "THAT'S Northwest."
I was warned back in 1978 (from the sister of an unhappy NW f/a) to not even think about applying there.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I just think it is ridiculous for anyone to think that if they were hired in 1995, they should go ahead of some one hired in 1990-1985 (ala the other shoe Delta/Pan Am), especially since their company is in far worse shape financially than NW.

Both companies are better off going their separate ways.

NxNW, with all due respect, if you're speaking of FAs during the PanAm/Delta combo. It was, as I know you recall, an acquisition of certain assets, NOT a full on acquisition/merger as with Western or Northeast for that matter.
All interested PanAm f/a's interviewed with Delta and if competitive, were offered employment with DL. PanAm f/a's still got to keep their original date of hire for passes and vacations. Many came into original DL bases and bumped DL f/a's out of Christmas vacations and off crowded flights. So it's like comparing apples and oranges. Btw, AA would have used an electric-powered super staple had they bought the PanAm Atlantic routes if one were to base it on their treatment of TWA.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

DAL would have a better balance sheet if they didn't sponsor the "Gay Pride" parade.

First of all, you're a bigot and secondly, the Moderator has been notified. This was done to ensure anyone can come online and read/discuss AVIATION/AIRLINE News and NOT your narrow-minded view of the world.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

NW brought to the merger the BEST balance sheet worth BILLIONS, which is superior in value to anything Delta laid on the table. This was earned on the backs of NW employees. Delta's Mkt. Cap is not much better's than NW's yet it is almost twice our size with considerably more debt.

I have heard nothing that proves this would have benefited NW employees (except take OUR paycuts to raise the pay of pilots, and pay off some of Delta's huge debt). It would have done wonders for the safety of the "new" Delta's future financially.

Both companies are better off going their separate ways.

I think your pilot group disagrees with you NxNW. They were rebuffed Wed and yet Thurs, they came back for more --from Thur, 3/20 Atlanta Journal Constitution:

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/busine...lid=inform_artr

"The NWA pilots have a keen understanding of the difficulty merging two pilot groups," said Matt Coons, vice chairman of communications at the Northwest pilots union.

"We are willing to let a neutral arbitrator rule on this issue on an expedited basis. This will allow both pilot groups to maintain the synergies and value created by this exploratory process."

Wednesday, officials at the Delta pilots union, another unit of the same national union, rejected their Northwest counterparts' call for accelerated arbitration.

"Arbitration is an abdication of leadership, and it won't be a part of this process," Delta pilots union spokesman Robert Hazzard said Wednesday.

Why can't NW Pilots take "NO" for an answer?? DL pilots are not interested in arbitration. This was stated by DL ALPA at the beginnig of the process, then again Wed, and now Thurs. No is no.....but your pilots don't seem to understand the meaning of the word. I guess they haven't taken your advice or read your posts!!

 

[bagboy]

DAL would have a better balance sheet if they didn't sponsor the "Gay Pride" parade.

Allie, get laid already. Just because your husband says you're like a popsicle, cold on a stick, doesn't mean you can't change.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

NxNW, with all due respect, if you're speaking of FAs during the PanAm/Delta combo. It was, as I know you recall, an acquisition of certain assets, NOT a full on acquisition/merger as with Western or Northeast for that matter.
All interested PanAm f/a's interviewed with Delta and if competitive, were offered employment with DL. PanAm f/a's still got to keep their original date of hire for passes and vacations. Many came into original DL bases and bumped DL f/a's out of Christmas vacations and off crowded flights. So it's like comparing apples and oranges. Btw, AA would have used an electric-powered super staple had they bought the PanAm Atlantic routes if one were to base it on their treatment of TWA.

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Luke,

I think you have an unconscious case of "AA ENVY"

OBTW, AA uses the fairest system of all, for non-rev travel........................4.00 hours before, first come, first served !

 

[North by Northwest]

I think your pilot group disagrees with you NxNW. They were rebuffed Wed and yet Thurs, they came back for more --from Thur, 3/20 Atlanta Journal Constitution:

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/busine...lid=inform_artr

"The NWA pilots have a keen understanding of the difficulty merging two pilot groups," said Matt Coons, vice chairman of communications at the Northwest pilots union.

"We are willing to let a neutral arbitrator rule on this issue on an expedited basis. This will allow both pilot groups to maintain the synergies and value created by this exploratory process."

Wednesday, officials at the Delta pilots union, another unit of the same national union, rejected their Northwest counterparts' call for accelerated arbitration.

"Arbitration is an abdication of leadership, and it won't be a part of this process," Delta pilots union spokesman Robert Hazzard said Wednesday.

Why can't NW Pilots take "NO" for an answer?? DL pilots are not interested in arbitration. This was stated by DL ALPA at the beginnig of the process, then again Wed, and now Thurs. No is no.....but your pilots don't seem to understand the meaning of the word. I guess they haven't taken your advice or read your posts!!

Cause they (NW) smell a raise before 2011 (from NW). It's also a PR move. statement from NW pilots

On another note. I was referring to the Delta/PAA pilots. I believe they were slotted in (sic). I knew from the beginning that NW pilots would NOT be giving up one month of seniority (unless it was through arbitration) Clearly, Delta pilots are not interested in a middle ground (and I am thankful for that...as now this can die)

It is beyond me why NW pilots even sat down at the table if Delta pilots weren't interested in DOH or Arbitration, the two known forms of integration most widely used.



(My GOD that stupid word "synergies" is so over used and full of slimy vagueness)

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

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Luke,

I think you have an unconscious case of "AA ENVY"

NHBB--That's pretty insulting. I think what AA did to TWA f/a's was the slimiest thing going.
Where in my post you got that I was for something like that is mystifying.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot....you live in your own parallel universe, completely disconnected from reality.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Clearly, Delta pilots are not interested in a middle ground (and I am thankful for that...as now this can die)

It is beyond me why NW pilots even sat down at the table if Delta pilots weren't interested in DOH or Arbitration, the two known forms of integration most widely used.

I really don't think DL pilots were interested in this merger from the start. They are a prima donna group, that I'll concede. I mean w/ many of the pilots having left before BK, the present ones moved up incredibly fast and now they want to protect that and even more. I certainly respect what they do everyday in the cockpit but like true divas, they know how to work it.

 

[North by Northwest]

I really don't think DL pilots were interested in this merger from the start. They are a prima donna group, that I'll concede. I mean w/ many of the pilots having left before BK, the present ones moved up incredibly fast and now they want to protect that and even more. I certainly respect what they do everyday in the cockpit but like true divas, they know how to work it.

I don't blame them (Delta pilots) one second! What they have is a once in a career opportunity. Just as I can't see a NW pilot giving up senority for the return of some of their money.

Besides, it was another way of NW giving it's pilots a raise with out abiding by the "ME TOO" clause in the other NW Union contracts (what a dirty web they weave). These ruthless creatures seek and worship the $.

Good Luck to all the Delta crew with your VOTE!!!

Have a voice in your future!

 

[bagboy]

There are problems enough at all airlines, but one known for their over-stressed, unhappy, bitter employees would not make a good combo with ANYONE. My NW f/a friends all roll their eyes when griping about short-staffing, no movies, etc..with the same statement "THAT'S Northwest."
I was warned back in 1978 (from the sister of an unhappy NW f/a) to not even think about applying there.

Luke, Don't fear the dark-side, we're not that bad. What you see as a weakness is our strength. Our "bitterness" makes us strong fighters. Something the employees at DL needed to learn. And what is it with your movies in the seat backs. You continue to go on and on and on about seatback entertainment. Who gives a rats a**. Toys are expensive and gas is too. If you are willing to give up more pay or loose jobs to pay for TV's so your passangers don't ring the bell and ask for anything, by all means go for it. NW was the first to have lie flat seats in it's first class 330's with seatback entertainment. Every airline has the TV's or will in the near future. It's not a unique amenity to an airline. The only thing unique to DL is it's ability to bend all the way over, smell your your own a**, and tell averyone it smells like roses. Pass on the punch next time, I think you've had enough. P.S. My sisters, boyfreinds, consins, mother works at DL and she said DL is the greatest, every plane comes and goes on time and they always smell like roses.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Luke, Don't fear the dark-side, we're not that bad. What you see as a weakness is our strength. Our "bitterness" makes us strong fighters. Something the employees at DL needed to learn. And what is it with your movies in the seat backs. You continue to go on and on and on about seatback entertainment. Who gives a rats a**. Toys are expensive and gas is too. If you are willing to give up more pay or loose jobs to pay for TV's so your passangers don't ring the bell and ask for anything, by all means go for it. NW was the first to have lie flat seats in it's first class 330's with seatback entertainment. Every airline has the TV's or will in the near future. It's not a unique amenity to an airline. The only thing unique to DL is it's ability to bend all the way over, smell your your own a**, and tell averyone it smells like roses. Pass on the punch next time, I think you've had enough. P.S. My sisters, boyfreinds, consins, mother works at DL and she said DL is the greatest, every plane comes and goes on time and they always smell like roses.

Bag, you must have me confused with someone else. If you haven't noticed in several of my board postings, I am a union/AFA supporter at Delta. I can assure you I do not drink the Koolaid. However, our AFA campaign is based, and I agree, on the fact that you CAN be pro-union and pro-Delta. You say I go "on and on" about seatback entertainment. Where in my previous post which you quoted above do I even mention it? I made ONE mention about the seatback entertainment in another thread about a month ago. It must make you uneasy for some reason.
And about "bitterness"...I don't think bitterness makes you a strong fighter. In the long run it makes you weak because all of your supposed strength is borne out of emotion at the expense of rational thought. I'm not saying strong emotion is bad...but it must be balanced and MOST importantly, it cannot be misdirected toward others you work with.
Finally, if you have no pride in the product you're offering customers, it can make a job very miserable. I'm not proud of a lot of the things passengers rightfully complain about but I am proud of a few of the innovative things that they enjoy regardless of which airline started the trend or which airlines will have them in the future.

 

[North by Northwest]

Bag, you must have me confused with someone else. If you haven't noticed in several of my board postings, I am a union/AFA supporter at Delta. I can assure you I do not drink the Koolaid. However, our AFA campaign is based, and I agree, on the fact that you CAN be pro-union and pro-Delta. You say I go "on and on" about seatback entertainment. Where in my previous post which you quoted above do I even mention it? I made ONE mention about the seatback entertainment in another thread about a month ago. It must make you uneasy for some reason.
And about "bitterness"...I don't think bitterness makes you a strong fighter. In the long run it makes you weak because all of your supposed strength is borne out of emotion at the expense of rational thought. I'm not saying strong emotion is bad...but it must be balanced and MOST importantly, it cannot be misdirected toward others you work with.
Finally, if you have no pride in the product you're offering customers, it can make a job very miserable. I'm not proud of a lot of the things passengers rightfully complain about but I am proud of a few of the innovative things that they enjoy regardless of which airline started the trend or which airlines will have them in the future.

Northwest's International product (which I feel is superior to Delta's, I've flown full fare from NYC-Paris) is ranked as one of the best for Trans Atlantic carriers (with the youngest Transatlantic fleet across the Atlantic)...having back seat entertainment that many (such as delta) do not currently have on the majority of their 767/757 fleets. Nor did they have, until recently onboard their domestic fleet. Many airlines flying the Atlantic still have inferior products whose J class still does not recline 70 degrees (NWA's Shelled cocoon lies 78 degrees Flat at an angle) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEVLd13cSTI ..while NW is preparing to go horizontal with a state of the art 787 Dreamliner seat that is considered First Class by many. That aircraft alone will leap by miles in amenities over all US carriers except Continental (another 787 customer)

Luke, I fear your perception of NW is extremely dated as in 20 years ago. NW introduced "seat back" video (the FIRST American carrier to do so) it was dismantled when surveys indicated pax did not want to pay for it. The savings in fuel and fees propelled NW to extraordinary profit. I am only interested in amenities for pax if it will increase revenue=pay for employees=long term job security.

Northwest's produced a 2007 profit of over $750 million dollars with it's International and domestic product...that is far superior to most, including Delta's. Our expectation (employees) has always been to have a product that competes with the JALs...our primary Tokyo rival. That appears to finally be developing. I invite you to fly Northwest Trans Atlantic or Trans Pacific and try it out first hand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp9V0PNPtks&NR=1

Do not take our passion to stand up for ourselves against a multi-Billion dollar company, and crooked judges, nor our independence for "bitterness". Bitterness develops when there is no hope and you accept what wrong has been committed against you. THAT... has never occurred with the employees at the airline known as Northwest.

 

[Guinness767]

You did not produce a strong profit at all! You have incredibly low pay and pathetic work rules and benefits. IE, the company took from the employees and called it a profit, nice work if you can get it. Yeah, you guys over there are real tough, badass fighters all right. Hey if it works for you, brag on it all you want, but don't think reality ceases to exist. I guess if you have been beaten up as much as you have you need to rationalize things in order to get up every morning. Hey, why don't you work for free and then the company will really be kicking butt against the other airlines that actually pay their employees.

 

[North by Northwest]

You did not produce a strong profit at all! You have incredibly low pay and pathetic work rules and benefits. IE, the company took from the employees and called it a profit, nice work if you can get it. Yeah, you guys over there are real tough, badass fighters all right. Hey if it works for you, brag on it all you want, but don't think reality ceases to exist. I guess if you have been beaten up as much as you have you need to rationalize things in order to get up every morning. Hey, why don't you work for free and then the company will really be kicking butt against the other airlines that actually pay their employees.

How bout I post the numbers...Delta 2007 / NWA 2007 would that help you get a handle on reality? Moreover, are you referring to our pay vs. yours? Our work rules vs. yours (which group are your referring?) Delta doesn't have a pot to piss in! The money for NW pilots raises/ AND YOURS was coming from OUR MONEY! Delta can't even AFFORD what it pays you now...we will see how long that bragging about that pilot pay lasts.

Your response is a childish whine with nothing to back it up. KOOL AID must taste great when you are screwing over the other employees! We will see where those big pilot pay checks get you when you stare those BILLIONS in debt in the face that's due EACH YEAR for the next 5 years. Don't be bitter because NW pilots didn't fall for your wishin and hopin seniority windfall (focus on those 20-30 planes Delta will be parking). Better hope those old 767's can drum up some profit with oil over $100.

p.s. What the hell would you spineless wannabees know about "bad ass?" It took bankruptcy AND Judicial rulings AGAINST us for us lose, what is your excuse? Delta management orders you to jump and you say how high. Yeah, the company DID TAKE from the employees at NWA, and guess what? WE PAID for is a company that RUNS RINGS around Delta financially (Oil man knocking on the Jetway, Bill collector calling on the phone) (at LEAST we got something vs. what did you get? Bragging rights to having the 2ed highest pilot pay, and BILLIONS in Debt?).

Ya thought you were gonna get your chops on all those free NWA billions to keep that big pay check coming. (Ha ha...BILLIONS in Debt BILLIONS in Debt...ring a bell. Must we cut and paste the nuts and bolts of where your pay check comes from. Must the other Delta employees see how your pilot pay may just cost them their jobs and even their company).

Mosy along now and worry about those BILLIONS that are due with oil $$$$$.

Let's talk numbers...if ya got the stomach for it!

Clean up your financials...then you can brag about somebodies PAY and WORK RULES. It's like having a Jaguar while living in a hut.