Hub Closure Sweepstakes

[700UW]

Am I the one who goes on mission trips preaching and promoting the bible?
 
Nope, not I.
 
I am a trade unionist, I never want one group to gain and another group to lose.
 
Go search my posts and find where I said that, you wont, so thats a lie.
 
I have always believed in dovetailing and all my posts in regards to seniority support that.
 
Can you say the same?
 
How nice did Delta treat those former Pan Am employees?

 

[WorldTraveler]

funny you want to keep mention PA but DL hired 6500 of them. They are some of the most anti-union employees DL has... but not surpassed by the former EA employees. They have got to the most anti-union DL employees. Amazing how DL has managed to hire so many union-damaged employees who are now very loyal to DL's business model.

Did you read the part about God telling the Israelites to go smite (look that word up) the unbelievers? The notion that God is some pushover doesn't square with what is in the Torah or the New Testament.

oh... anything more to add on the hub discussion?

 

[700UW]

And what did they do with their seniority?
 
They made them interview and get hired and stapled them to the bottom.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It was an asset purchase, not a merger. And they did indeed receive their seniority for many purposes, including pay.

tell us what other airline hired even 1/3 of the PA employees that DL did.

700,
You are right. You did write back then that you supported dovetail. Unfortunately, there were indeed US people who argued for stapling.

I did find this you 700 wrote on 23 Nov 2006
Well PIT does not like US, maybe you will understand that Seabury and associates working for US raised the money for the merger, not Doug nor America West.

And I could give a rat's ### about a CEO who lines his pockets at the worker's expense.

One merger is far from completed, the webpage is a mess and he wants another merger, he needs to be drug tested. (you still believe that?)

Nor’Easta 20 Nov 2006
All the non-union DL employees have had many chances to vote in a union. But, they always said "we have it better non-union." If this goes through; I bet they wish that a union was voted in. No Union = STAPLE!

Some other interesting quotes
LGA Fleet Service same date
You neglect to mention it's been fifteen years since Delta bought anything from another airline, while your boy Doug seems to have a shopping disorder.

Nov 26, 2006 by WhatNow

"Keep Delta My Delta"....hmmm for all you Delta folk down yonder in the South.....here's a news flash....USAirways don't want you neither! If USAirways employees were to wear buttons they would say "PLEASE, Keep Delta YOUR Delta".....unfortunately....the USAirways folks will SOON be wearing buttons that say..."Delta OUR Delta"! Be careful Kharma is a bi@#h to deal with when it comes around again


Written on Nov 26, 2006 by DL FlyGirl and still true.

Let history speak for itself here folks. Douugie is out smarting you and your unions. You'll find yourselves without a union to hide behind. You'll be merged into the Delta and remember DELTA doesn't have a union.


Delta merged with Western who had a union but when they became DL employees the left the contract behind.

When DL toook on the uniionized Pan Am workers once again their contradct was left behind.

There has never been a reason for DL to have a union. Our management as treated us fair enough to keep it out. If there were then Western and PA employees would have fought for one.


Sadly for you huys you've haven't the luck of good management for years hence the need for someone to speak for you.

Delta benefits are still superior to US's so what has your union done for you that Delta management hasn't done for us?

Same day, Delta Fly Boy

We have watched the non-lubricated screwing that unionized employees have received at other carriers and the majority of us, as always, want no part of that.
Through this whole 9-11 downturn we have weathered the storm the same or sometimes better then the workers who are "protected" under organized labor.

Same day, Aislehopper
Bear:

I agree with you that there will be no collective action that would attempt to shut the airline down. It would not make our position any better.

Where I disagree is with your "scared" comment. The afa is marginally effective at best. At the time of the last vote, we were at or equal to our peers in pay and benefits.

You also have to admit that the afa claims and what it actually does are two different things.

Remember OSHA now? What about "if any one company does away with our pensions we are going to have a nationwide strike?"

Not voting in the afa was not due to timidness or fear, it was a statement that the afa did not meet its burden of proof that it could make a difference.

Longing4Piedmont 6 Dec 2006

What I would fear if I were you is what DL becomes after dougie gets told no AGAIN. You have poked a sleeping giant and they are mad. I would not want to be US and be competitior of DL when this is done.

PHX Mama
Many have expressed the same feeling although Doug has said that Delta was the better fit. If this falls apart I think NW is an option but with all the publicity surrounding the US/DL proposal I dont think it was a smokescreen. JMHO.

This one was really funny regarding LGA.
DL cedes its mainline gates. LCC retaining its terminal and MAT. Possibly ceding MAT in future if more, new, convenient gates are added adjacent to LCC terminal. (oops, guess that didn’t go as planned)

Wings396 on the thread USAir and Delta… NO GO.
Get a grip here pal, what you want and what happens are 2 different things
I am not the one saying that the deal is dead, nor am I saying that it will go thru. You on the other hand seem to have some type of "Inside" knowledge by knowing the end result already prior to any public announcement. You are doing nothing more than taking a shot in the dark with your posting. If you are a DL employee, what do you care who runs the Airline as long as you get a paycheck???
You can't be foolish enough to support the clowns that have been trying to run Delta for the last 5+ years, can you?

EOlesen
There's one fatal flaw in all this "creditors may like DL's offer better" line of argument --- who is going to front the money necessary to pay the unsecured creditors, and does DL standing on its own generate enough cashflow to make good on their commitments?

US Airways already has the financing lined up. DL doesn't, otherwise they would have already come forward with their POR for approval.

and then this thread

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/32144-is-dougie-going-home-empty-handed/

 

[700UW]

You quoted me yet no where did I say to staple or place anyone at the bottom of the seniority list.
 
Your post shows none of the sort.
 
I still dont support Doug, it took eight years for the FAs to get a JCBA.
 
He went behind his own employee's backs who have been in negotiations for two years or more and made deals with employees that werent even under his control.
 
Yes he is a good numbers guy, but not good to his own employees.
 
And I can only speak for myself, not any other poster.
 
Do you know the laws were changed because of how Delta treated the former Pan Am employees, they stapled them to the bottom, and they had to interview, now when an airline buys substantial assets of another they have to take the employees with them.
 
http://articles.philly.com/1991-12-05/news/25811627_1_deal-pan-honor-pan-am-tickets-eastern-airlines
 

Delta "betrayed all of us when Pan Am trusted Delta in its most desperate hour," said Leon Marcus, an attorney for Pan Am's unsecured creditors, who said Delta seemed to care only about the assets it already had bought. "Now they're running away with the family jewels," he said.
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

You sure about that? Check with the TW employees about how they felt they were treated.

You also realize that the Pan Am creditors unsuccessfully, yes unsuccessfully sued DL. That means they lost. The article you cited has to be read in that context.

You also realize that the last line notes that PA's remaining assets would be auctioned... to UA who hired very few PA employees and subsequently folded up the operation while DL has grown to be the largest int'l airline at JFK... that's quite a tribute to Pan Am and its employees, many of whom still work for DL at JFK.

And I did accept your word that you didn't say that even before going back into the archives.... I posted the above just for a trip down memory lane.

Some of it is a hoot to read 7+ years later.

I really enjoyed the part about messing w/ DL and LGA. Those two couldn't have been more right if Moses himself had written them.

 

[Hope777]

WAY THE F OFF TOPIC !!!! This Tread is about Hub Closures NOT a Pissing Match between 700 and WT that have a hard on for each other.  We all know that PHX will become the next BWI,PIT of USAirways fame.

 

[FWAAA]

Considering US's gates in MIA are on the wrong side of the airport in the Star Alliance concourse, they would have given up those gates regardless.

Agreed.   Giving up the two US gates at MIA is as meaningless as it gets, since new AA wouldn't continue to use them.   The AA gates at PHL, CLT and PHX probably aren't absolutely essential, either.   
 
At a different airport where gate space is a little tighter (LAX), US is leaving T-1 where it has three gates and moving to T-3 where it will have exclusive use of just one gate (since two were given up as concessions to the DOJ).   

My question is whether those two gates at T-3 become common use gates and whether new AA can use them?  It's going to be a while before AA gets its four new TBIT gates, which I understand are preferential use and the sterile connector between T-4 and TBIT isn't scheduled to complete until 3rd or 4th quarter of 2015.   Until then,  the current US schedule of about 20 daily departures to PHX, PHL and CLT would require at least two if not three gates.    

 

[WorldTraveler]

What was said in the past about hubs is relevant to the discussion today, your honor. It does establish the credibility of what some have said in the past regarding what will take place in the future.

I still repeat there is no imminent danger of any AA or US hubs closing for many months but there will be route specific cutbacks.

FWAAA,
in the near term at LAX, AA has very little room to grow. Remember that they have more flights (and more need of gates) to fly fewer seats to JFK.

 

[700UW]

The move from T1 to T3 was announced way before the merger.
 
It was announced in January of 2013.

 

[FWAAA]

The move from T1 to T3 was announced way before the merger.
 
It was announced in January of 2013.

I realize that.   I started a thread about it on a different forum the day the news broke.
 
My question is whether US (new AA) gets to use the two gates given up at T-3 (are they common use)?   If US gets to use them as common use gates, then no harm/no foul for giving them up in the merger concessions, since long-term, there's no way new AA would keep a split operation at T-3, whether it had one gate or three gates.   The four new gates that AA is getting at TBIT should be able to handle all AA widebody flights, domestic or international, which should free up some space at T-4.   
 
The additional transcon frequencies will require more gate space but that should be offset by faster turn times, since an A321 with just 102 seats should, in theory, be emptied, cleaned, recatered and boarded a little faster than the 168-seat 762s they're replacing.

 

[700UW]

I believe from what I heard PMUS will operate from T3 and they are working on a plan for a combined operation.

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA,
in the near term at LAX, AA has very little room to grow. Remember that they have more flights (and more need of gates) to fly fewer seats to JFK.

Thanks, Captain Obvious.   I'm not talking about LAX growth - I merely asked a question about from where new AA could fit the current US schedule of about 20 peak season daily mainline departures.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so do you have any information to substantiate faster turn times on the 321? It seems obvious that could be the case but.....

yes, I had also heard that the plan is to put US' operation in T4. I'm not sure what will overflow to T3 but AA will be operating out of 4 locations including the AE facility.

 

[eolesen]

We now have to substantiate the obvious?...

AA used to turn a 757 in 35 minutes on MOGT. The A321T shouldn't take any longer than that.

Widebodies typically take a minimum of 45 minutes MOGT for a domestic turn.

That should add up to over an hour's worth of gate time.

I don't recall if AA's still running RJ's over at T-4, but there will no doubt be room for a few more at the satellite once AA's LAX-PHX flights go away in favor of US's narrowbodies.