Hub Closure Sweepstakes

[700UW]

You cant turn a 757 nor an A321 with deplaning, cleaning, catering, boarding, unloading and loading in 35 minutes.
 
I was on a task force for US for the 757s and I think it was a 55 minute or 60 minute turn time.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I get that, E... I just want to see a schedule that shows that AA is ACTUALLY turning its 321s at LAX in less time than they used for their 762s and that their combined gate time for the total expanded 321 schedule is less than the 762s.

I would strongly agree with 700 that esp. after a transcon and with premium service, the turn time isn't going to substantially less.

The coach cabin still boards about the same number of people per aisle. The premium cabins are boarding more people per aisle on the 321. Takes away from the whole cache of the 321 if you board the entire aircraft in 20 minutes and force all the premium passengers to rush on, even if you mathematically could do it.

 

[eolesen]

I'd disagree on that. You're eliminating half the main cabin seats, and that's normally the cabin that gets trashed quicker and is harder to clean since the seats are closer together.

 

[Kev3188]

You cant turn a 757 nor an A321 with deplaning, cleaning, catering, boarding, unloading and loading in 35 minutes.
 
I was on a task force for US for the 757s and I think it was a 55 minute or 60 minute turn time.

 
 

I'd disagree on that. You're eliminating half the main cabin seats, and that's normally the cabin that gets trashed quicker and is harder to clean since the seats are closer together.

For those in the know, do the A/C on this service get a higher level of cleaning than a normal turn might?

Also, with cabin service now farmed out, I wonder if instead of, say, 2-3 AA employees showing up to clean, if it'll be 6-7 from a vendor. That, too, may factor in to some of the planned turn times.

Just some random thoughts...

 

[WorldTraveler]

cabin cleaning is not even close to the longest portion of the ground time of an aircraft.

You are still boarding and deplaning more people per aisle on the 321 than you were on the 762.

I'd also like some evidence that main cabin passengers leave more trash.

Further, the seat setup in a premium cabin is far more exact and requires more materials than in the main cabin.

We can debate theory all day long. I just want to see a schedule that shows that AA is using less total ground time for their 321 transcon operation with more flights than on the 762.

I'll accept whatever answer the data shows

 

[FWAAA]

We now have to substantiate the obvious?...

AA used to turn a 757 in 35 minutes on MOGT. The A321T shouldn't take any longer than that.

Widebodies typically take a minimum of 45 minutes MOGT for a domestic turn.

That should add up to over an hour's worth of gate time.

In my (extensive) experience at LAX, if the arriving 762 is late, and everyone is standing at the gate, it takes at least 15 minutes for everyone to deplane the 762s.   Cleaning can take from 15 to 30, easily.   I've been in the crossfire of numerous loud arguments/disputes between AA employees (agents and FAs) and the outsourced cleaning crews while standing on the jetbridge during these delayed departures.   And no matter how much the agents and FAs crack the whip on the passengers, boarding always takes 20-30 minutes, including the scramble to accommodate the standbys.  
 
Same thing at JFK, although in New York there aren't gate shortages like at LAX.   Easily takes an hour to 90 minutes to turn a 762 and that's when everybody is cracking the whip to HURRY because the departure is delayed due to a late inbound plane.    When things are on-time, my guess is that the 762s are turned in 90-120 minutes.   With only nine 762s each way, no big deal - as two gates can handle nine departures and arrivals.   If the 102 passenger A321s can be turned a little faster, then two gates should be able to handle 13 daily departures and arrivals that are basically hourly until about 4 pm in LAX and then two later redeye departures.      

 

[WorldTraveler]

90 to 120 minutes to turn a domestic widebody with 165 passengers? can you show me a schedule?

The neighbors in the other terminal turns 753s with one aisle and 763s with 100 more passengers in a whole lot less time than that and I'm talking all the other terminals on the south side of LAX.

I truly hope you are not right...

 

[700UW]

Plus the A321 and 757 are hand loaded, unlike a 767.
 
And if the bin carpets are broken it takes even longer.

 

[WorldTraveler]

based on today's schedules, AA has 65 to 80 minute ground times at LAX for 321Bs. They have no 762 daytime turns.

AT SFO, their 767s from JFK have 75 to 90 minute turns.

If the same turn schedule is maintained at LAX, AA might save 10 minutes per turn but offsets it by X number of additional flights. And what is that number of additional flights by this summer? Each additional 321 flight uses more gate time than what is saved with roughly every 6 flights.

 

[Kev3188]

cabin cleaning is not even close to the longest portion of the ground time of an aircraft.

That's 'cause turn cleans are rarely done that well (unless you have an army up there)...



 

Plus the A321 and 757 are hand loaded, unlike a 767.
 
And if the bin carpets are broken it takes even longer.

...If it even has them in the first place...

 

[WorldTraveler]

unless someone can show me differently, actual AA schedules show that AA is using more gate time with its 321 schedule than they were with their 762 schedule.

 

[wings396]

Wings, WT was not talking about a bidding war for DFW. He was talking about the two gates AA has at DAL (Love Field) should AA have to divest them in order for the merger to go through. Same with MIA if we had to give up any gates there (which we didn't).

Jim, I'm going back a while on this one. Back when US first announced their interest in AA,many comments were made by WT about how DL wouldn't just sit on the sidelines without making a run on AA or possibly some of their assets mainly MIA & DFW. We all see how that prediction went. But then again, he only highlights the things that he got right.

 

[WorldTraveler]

No, you failed to note what I said in its proper context. Nowhere did I unequivocally say that DL would bid for AA's assets.

I said if DL had the opportunity, yes. But that opportunity never arose because no one so far as any of us know offered a restructuring proposal that involved breaking up AA.

And BTW there are plenty of people who said that DL would be parted out including with a US acquisition. you can go back and look at the threads... I gave you the dates that should help you find what was said.

 

[wings396]

Hogwash, you said it dozens of times. When I have some free time, I will dig back into some of your old posts. Hell, you post so much I don't know how you could keep track of what you did and didn't say anyway.