Holly Hegeman FA smackdown!

[jcw]

well, I don't think you are really going to admit she is on AA's payroll - and I don't think she is - but she couldn't have written anything that was both pro-company and pro-labor at the same time - all the while trashing the opinions of FAs who don't agree with her.it is obvious AA wants this agreement to go into effect. no one here has really presented the downside. apparently the line FAs know what those are and are speaking up.thanks for posting her article.

That's an obvious statement two sides negotiated an agreement and one would want it to go into effect - that's for the insight - bless your heart

 

[kirkpatrick]

Holly:  Truer words were never spoken.  One thing however.  The complaining FAs are not a "group".  Just a bunch of online whiners who can't buy an effing clue, even with a major pay raise.
 
WT:  The same drivel can be found on the Delta pages, but they can't do anything about it, which might be a good thing.
 
MK

 

[eolesen]

so she sleeps with you, too.

Wow, a new low, even for you. No, I'm capable of having friends I don't sleep with. Are you?

no wonder you can't objectively recognize that it is the height of arrogance and unprofessionalism when an industry analyst tells a member of any labor group that they have been infected by a disease because they do not agree with their union or their mgmt.

She's questioning their logic and objectivity, as is anyone sane enough to look at the math.

again, if she doesn't get a paycheck from an airline, she is outside of the airline industry.

just like you.

not like some people that you would like to think are outsiders.

So, anyone who works for DGS is outside the airline industry? After all, they just get a check from the ground handling company.

Or someone who worked for TransQuest was outside the airline industry?

How about Boeing? Are they outside the airline industry, too?

Is someone who works for ATPCO or ARINC outside the industry?

My paychecks since 1989 have *all* been either directly from or just one step removed money that came from an airline.

Can you say that?

 

[Onestep2flt]

As Holly notes there seems to be a small but very loud (and growing?) contingent of ignorant AA and US flight attendants who don't know an opportunity when they see it and continue to willfully ignore the forces at play both in this merger and the industry at large. They, whomever they may be, are very active all over the AAFA pages on Facebook, even going so far as to brainwash the new hires into voting against the TA to serve whatever personal agenda they may have for seeing it fail. Whether is is a grudge against APFA, Laura Glading, common sense (or maybe they just really love the idea of going to arbitration so they can get less money?) I have no idea, but her dressing-down of this self-destructive line of thinking is too glorious not to share:
 
 
 
 

 
Well, the devil is in the details.  My personal opinion is that it will pass with flying colors so you have nothing to worry about.  The problem you may not understand is that it is a concessionary contract for the US flight attendants.  You are selling this on one thing and that is  hourly rate.  At first look this would look fantastic to most.  However, you must add up all you are loosing to see the whole picture.  We could discuss the fuzzy math used to value this document for years to come.  Bottom line is both sides want your emotions to dream of what you can do with that extra cash.  The union even has an app for your phone so you can determine how much extra you will pocket each month.  My suggestion is that they have an app that subtracts all the things you gave up to get the extra cash.  I think that app would be an eye opener!! 
 
I can't speak to the good folks at American.  They are living a with what they got from the heels of Bankruptcy.  Their situation is different than their counterparts at US.  It is tough to not see that cash rolling in front of you.  The US flight attendants were there twice in two years.  It is hard to envision having to live with it for the almost nine years that they lived through theirs.  That is why the union came up with the scheme that they are using to achieve a joint contract now.  Flaunt some cash and all is well.  That is the path they appear to be taking.  
 
You only have to look at what took place this week to get you thinking about this.  I know this is not THE only stumbling block for American folks but it was in the top five for sure.  The 40 hour wording!!  Think about this.  Since when has the company ever been so kind to change language of an agreement that was already sent out for a vote?  When they know that the largest voting block might just turn out enough no votes for it not to pass!  What if the US side petitioned about their insurance benefits?  Would the company agree to a change to get this to pass?  That would be a no.  Why?  Because they know they only need to keep the most fragile but largest group happy.  This is not to disrespect the American folks.  This language can of course benefit both groups.  My point is that every US flight attendant can vote no and it will still pass.  That is a fact the company knows very well.  You are over 20,000 strong and US has around 8,000.  In terms of voting though you are the weak group because you have the most to loose.  The company magic formula is to always give you the least it takes to keep you showing up.  Putting that BIG DOLLAR Figure distracts you from looking at the whole picture.  
 
I think it is a very personal decision for everyone.  Everyone has different things they can live with and live without.  I would ask that everyone look at facts and not dollar signs.  If just the pay is important then you should be happy.  Before you decide that you should ask if you are loosing anything that you can't live without?  That is something that the "Fanatics" from either side of the fence can't take from you.  YOUR OWN FREE WILL!  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Just curious, are you in the Yes or No column?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Let me see. Humm... mediator or yes vote?

Mediator or yes vote?

Yes vote.

 

[Mach85ER]

I'm curious to hear some input from FA's regarding the following:
 
What would be the opinion and estimate on the general vote of the FA's for their TA if they learned Parker offered the pilots a 20% raise in January from current APA pay rates?
 
Thoughts?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Mach85ER, I believe they would want to burn the house down.
 
It seems like there are a lot of people who are disappointed with the joint negotiating team already.
 
What I can't understand is... If the company is so intent on not giving out profit sharing to any of the work groups, why didn't either the negotiators ask for/the company grant a "me too" clause for PS in the APFA TA? It wouldn't have cost them anything, and it would have quieted some of the wailing that is going on among the membership...

 

[kirkpatrick]

Mach, do you mean 20% initially and more later?  Our TA offers 19.1% over the term not counting the generous lead position raises.  I figured next month's LAS flights will get me 621 more before taxes literally overnight if the TA passes.
 
If the pilots get a huge raise and more at the end, plus profit sharing and other things, there will be a gnashing of teeth on the FA side, but most by now are resigned to the fact that we are not pilots.  We don't have their skill or training levels, their clout or their unreplaceability.  (Spell check doesn't like that word).
 
We also have to keep in mind that each group is different and may lag behind other carriers at different levels.
 
MK

 

[Mach85ER]

Thanks MK,
 
I meant intially plus yearly raises.
 
There seems to be a feeling that one reason for AAG dragging their feet with us is the FA vote. Co says they want to get doen with yours first. They've offered nothing to us and refuse to counter anything.
 
Even worse, they have Kirby running around the system telling pilots they want 5 seats more on our Scope limit of 76 seats in exchange for any raises. The industry standard is 76 seats.
 
Whether it's the standard negotiating tactic, fair enough, the pilot relations and view of Parker/Kirby are heading south FAST.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Are they offering a 20% + more per year?

 

[Mach85ER]

Are they offering a 20% + more per year?

 
 
Nothing yet. just WAG.
 
Just guessing at the secret "big picture" timeline on the APA delay and the FA vote.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

APFA needs to know thar LUS is waiting for their incentive.
 
LG may not cater to LUS but if it is close she may need the votes.
 
If this goes to an arbitrator her days are numbered.
 
Many are withholding votes expecting some non cost item that specifically benefits LUS.
 
If she is as all powerful to get things done behind the curtain she better do it one more time.
 
And something meaningful because her people are getting blasted.
 
Something decisive with content.
 
She may think she can go it alone but people are waiting...for something from LG.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

APFA needs to know thar LUS is waiting for their incentive.
 
LG may not cater to LUS but if it is close she may need the votes.
 
If this goes to an arbitrator her days are numbered.
 
Many are withholding votes expecting some non cost item that specifically benefits LUS.
 
If she is as all powerful to get things done behind the curtain she better do it one more time.
 
And something meaningful because her people are getting blasted.
 
Something decisive with content.
 
She may think she can go it alone but people are waiting...for something from LG.

And that would be...?

You want something more, but either don't know/don't care what it is?

The AA FA's are already ready to burn the house down and thing the US FAs are being favored. This would make it even worse, if that's even possible.

 

[boston]

The negotiating team was comprised of equal members for each airlines, Roger Holmin the former L/US mec is sitting at the table. Those who
have an opinion that hey are getting the shaft, need to go to a road Show. Not one negotiator would have put the money in the same place, it ws very difficult and they worked very hard to bring this TA to us. Unfortunately, some F/As aren't getting over 2003, and there polluting the rank and file. In sort order at the road shows they have shown up and tried assert false information and they were set strait very fast, and they didn't know what to do. Some even thought they were going to start at 2001, and LG said at the end of this contract they would surpass it, they said she was lying, however the facts are the facts, and the math adds up.
 
Hope they don't ruin it for the rest of us who are looking forward to this. But the list is Loooooooooooooooooooooooong, who isn't eligible to vote.