Holly Hegeman FA smackdown!

[AdAstraPerAspera]

So what your saying is that LG has no responsibility for the failure of this vote?
 
Heads need to roll and she is responsible for this.
 
If she does not fix this then she is of no value and needs to be gone.

 
And just why, exactly, should LG pay the price simply because a razor-thin majority of FAs are so stupid that they willingly vote against their own interests?
 
I think you should heed the advice of your namesake.

 

[boston]

The membership did it to themselves that's for sure! LG came back with the best thing we had in a long time. Its disingenuous for any APFA FA or any other person to say they weren't informed. We have known since the secret meeting in Tempe, that in order for the merger to go thru a number of things were to take place. What they missed I don't know, they wanted Horton out, they wanted a merger to take care of that. They got DP., Email after email, hot line after hot line, APFA town hall meetings, anti AFA carding campaign, election of negotiators, 6 L/AA 6 L/US, Fact rep program in place, fact calls, more hot line. Fact reps in operations, mailers, flyers, robo calls, ballots, voting material, fact reps in operations again, Phone call center for the facts, fact reps on social media to counter lies and misinformation. 
 
 Unfortunately there have been very vocal members doing everything in their power to undermine this process, and know what! These individuals are now telling their followers don't worry, and Profit sharing will get it, look at the pilots.. So now there demanding LG go in and get that 82K back. The company has made it very clear what there intentions are and these individual lead all the wanna be revolutionaries into the dessert with no water. But underground railroad leaders are demanding base chairs to call emergency BOD meetings and the audacity for them to put in place a new base chair to be in charge, ( in charge of what). You couldn't make this stuff up, just come to Miami and watch the horror show.
 
A no vote is fine, but when such underhanded tactics, lies, to mislead people and not to mention unsuspecting new hire,and that is unfair to the rest of us and infuriating. This didn't have to happen!   

 

[WorldTraveler]

the problem with your theory, Boston, is that failure to approve the TA has real costs. You would truly have to believe that people are financial masochists to believe they would have rejected the TA and also have known the consequences of doing so.

There have to be a lot of people who simply did not understand what they were up against.

You and most of the participants on this board have an above average knowledge of the labor aspects of the industry. But you still only get one vote and your coworkers that don't open a single email or read a single brochure from the union also get a vote.

perhaps the whole concept of labor's involvement in the merger and the process that came out of it was far too complex for most union members to understand, mgmt. took advantage of that reality by inserting terms that made sure they would win regardless, and now the result is INTRA-labor strife, which is exactly what mgmt. wants to keep labor underpaid. If employees are mad at each other, they are not focusing their anger as much on mgmt.

pick up the pieces of what happened. Make peace with your coworkers. Focus your energies - together - where it needs to be focused to get the compensation and work rules you want.

 

[boston]

I guess I'm not clear enough. The issue in Miami and New York isn't about money its about taking it down. There is a view individuals who are telling the FAs you will get more, just hold out don't worry there will be another offer. These are the very same people who complain that we at AA don't get paid trip protection (L/US does, included in TA) these are very people complain that we have no paid training(L/US does and the TA does $75 per day, kept the duty rigs, Int override of $3 per hr for Caribbean, CA,LA &HI, $3.75 Deep south, Europe and Asia, increase  to premium pay. 9.9%401k to 50yrs to 2019. These only a few. As you know there was a adapt and go the better of the 2 was put in place and then APFA achieved more.
 
The complaint is not that the TA was rejected, but how it was and why it occurred. I'm not sure if you would call the Miami and New York financial masochist, but if they cant have you cant have it, however I can attest many are very vindictive and under the assumption that another offer is on its way and it will prove better, they know and the TA doesn't read that this is it.. Now, they are screaming and in arms about the pilots proposal that is out. If they can fill out the pilots application then talk., but they feel they should be paid more like a person who has a completely different skill, and responsibility, they have a grandiose idea of themselves . I would of loved more money and not had to bother to learn any new scheduling, not had to clean an aircraft.
 
 
 
Read between the lines.
 
Simply, often flying through out Central, South America, and the Caribbean if a passenger become very angry the will refuse all food and water
as they wither away and die.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

the problem with your theory, Boston, is that failure to approve the TA has real costs. You would truly have to believe that people are financial masochists to believe they would have rejected the TA and also have known the consequences of doing so.There have to be a lot of people who simply did not understand what they were up against.You and most of the participants on this board have an above average knowledge of the labor aspects of the industry. But you still only get one vote and your coworkers that don't open a single email or read a single brochure from the union also get a vote.perhaps the whole concept of labor's involvement in the merger and the process that came out of it was far too complex for most union members to understand, mgmt. took advantage of that reality by inserting terms that made sure they would win regardless, and now the result is INTRA-labor strife, which is exactly what mgmt. wants to keep labor underpaid. If employees are mad at each other, they are not focusing their anger as much on mgmt.pick up the pieces of what happened. Make peace with your coworkers. Focus your energies - together - where it needs to be focused to get the compensation and work rules you want.

Wow. The rare good point coming from WorldTraveller. That's actually a fairly compelling take, I must say.

 

[silverbird007]

Does WN contract out to a union-busing firm to negotiate it’s union contracts

no I actually think that any union should have a good working relationship with management. But only when the union is 100% looking out for its members. Being too cozy with management is a different story. Its sorta like the lobbyist in DC, APFA should be lobbying the company to benefit our union. But like in DC the lobbyist are way too cozy with the congressmen. Champagne dinners, secret meetings, LG going to Kirby's wedding? Same thing. Maybe its not anything illegal but it just doesn't look good.

 

[boston]

WT, you are correct about the so many of the APFA membership not knowing what we were up against, and unfortunately choosing to listen
to others interpretation of the language, To give credit, many FA's did come in and bring questions in for interpretation and clarification. Some of the same people would come back to say "I've tried to explain what this article in the TA , but the crew will have none of it. For example language that was in L/US language we adopted for future, so if certain issues arose there was a protocol between the company and the union...that was an outrage.
 
Its sad that so many chose to believe all but who was in the negotiating room, and infuriating some have and still working hard to undermine
this process. This is why there was no vote on this TA in the beginning, but that changed to accommodate L/US wanting a vote, which stopped the non AFA-CWA authorized  a carding by the membership.  

 

[700UW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yUuAygwIPs&feature=youtu.be

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

^ yep.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

WT, you are correct about the so many of the APFA membership not knowing what we were up against, and unfortunately choosing to listen
to others interpretation of the language, To give credit, many FA's did come in and bring questions in for interpretation and clarification. Some of the same people would come back to say "I've tried to explain what this article in the TA , but the crew will have none of it. For example language that was in L/US language we adopted for future, so if certain issues arose there was a protocol between the company and the union...that was an outrage.
 
Its sad that so many chose to believe all but who was in the negotiating room, and infuriating some have and still working hard to undermine
this process. This is why there was no vote on this TA in the beginning, but that changed to accommodate L/US wanting a vote, which stopped the non AFA-CWA authorized  a carding by the membership.  

I agree with 99% of what you say,however there is one line in your post that disturbs me.
 
"This is why there was no vote on this TA in the beginning,..."
 
Do you mean to say that this TA would have been implemented unilaterally by leadership without membership approval/disapproval?
 
I've been wrestling with this sentance for most of the day and am amazed that democratically elected representatives of the membership would/could do this.
 
The leadership serves at the discretion of the membership- for better or worse.
 
Not the other way round- for better or worse.

 

[IORFA]

Apparently, you've never heard of the TWU. Pilots still aren't sure if they get to vote either, from what they say on the plane. I don't know for sure either way.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Apparently, you've never heard of the TWU. Pilots still aren't sure if they get to vote either, from what they say on the plane. I don't know for sure either way.

Thanks.

 

[Bob Owens]

You would truly have to believe that people are financial masochists to believe they would have rejected the TA and also have known the consequences of doing so.

 

From the very beginning workers have been told there would be consequences to rejecting poor offers from the company, five more years and no profit sharing is not a good deal, long deals are never good deals for workers because they do not protect them from downturns (2001 agreements) and they lock them out of sharing in gains(1995 agreement) . Unions make sure that consequences go both ways. There should be consequences to the consequences if the company chooses to go that route. 

 

[overhauler]

Here is my take as to the biggest reason why the TA failed.  The company failed to understand the ramifications of the hard 40 hours.  Once it was clarified by APFA leadership, the company quickly modified it to 480 hours annually.  Some of the membership falsely interpreted this to be the company backing down.  This embolden the uninformed.
 
This is only the opinion of a soon to be retired mechanic.  I've enjoyed my long career with American, I still have much pride everytime I see one of our birds take flight!