Hidden concession TWU gave USAir?

[FWAAA]

We gave up (as did all the APA and APFA) profit sharing from a Company that hasn’t been profitable in a decade for base pay increases worth far more and, to you, that is a bad thing because the TWU also negotiated an industry pay adjustment which will occur in 2015. If the 4.3 percent is paid by April, it will be worth approximately seven thousand dollars in additional pay through September 12, 2015 to every mechanic, and that is without counting the impact on 401k contributions. Assuming AA had its best performance ever and made a billion a year for six straight years, profit sharing would be less than 3,800 dollars total. And we know that is not a realistic scenario because the combined talent of the two worst managements in this industry are not going to produce the best profits in the history of the passenger airline industry.

There will be plenty of work in a merger and profit sharing was weak at best. We will earn more with the raise than profit sharing. Do you trust AA management to do that well that you will make $2500 plus in profit sharing?

I think middle management are the ones most at risk of job loss.

You are getting the 4.3% earlier than the wage adjustment. So you are getting more money for 30+ months than you would with no MOU.

More proof that you can't fix stupid.

Delta's mechanics make more money than AA's mechanics and they get 15% first dollar profit sharing. Next week, DL employees will get their third straight payout, which this year will be worth more than 6% of wages.

You foolish clowns didn't negotiiate sufficient upside in 2003 in exchange for the concessions and now you've done it again. AA offered 15% profit sharing (just like DL) with the term sheets. The pilots traded away 2/3 of their profit sharing for higher pay, all other AA workgroups foolishly went along (thanks to the me-too provision that was an admission that you can't effectively negotiate on your own), and now you've bargained away the last 1/3 (5%) to Doug Parker in exhange for a few more pieces of silver. The collective stupidity in giving away all profit sharing is astounding.

If you TWU clowns had any brains and negotiating prowess, you would demand and get at least 15% from Parker, and a fair result would be more like 20%. Idiots.

 

[AANOTOK]

Question for the US folks...do you get shift differential?

 

[mike33]

Question for the US folks...do you get shift differential?

No

 

[mike33]

More proof that you can't fix stupid.

Delta's mechanics make more money than AA's mechanics and they get 15% first dollar profit sharing. Next week, DL employees will get their third straight payout, which this year will be worth more than 6% of wages.

You foolish clowns didn't negotiiate sufficient upside in 2003 in exchange for the concessions and now you've done it again. AA offered 15% profit sharing (just like DL) with the term sheets. The pilots traded away 2/3 of their profit sharing for higher pay, all other AA workgroups foolishly went along (thanks to the me-too provision that was an admission that you can't effectively negotiate on your own), and now you've bargained away the last 1/3 (5%) to Doug Parker in exhange for a few more pieces of silver. The collective stupidity in giving away all profit sharing is astounding.

If you TWU clowns had any brains and negotiating prowess, you would demand and get at least 15% from Parker, and a fair result would be more like 20%. Idiots.

This is exactly what ive been trying to tell the US guys on the US board. The $$ amount is probably worth $ 6000-$ 8000 if DP has his profit synergies right!

 

[Rogallo]

More proof that you can't fix stupid.
If you TWU clowns had any brains
Idiots.

You've nailed 'em again.

 

[Bob Owens]

We gave up (as did all the APA and APFA) profit sharing from a Company that hasn’t been profitable in a decade for base pay increases worth far more and, to you, that is a bad thing because the TWU also negotiated an industry pay adjustment which will occur in 2015. If the 4.3 percent is paid by April, it will be worth approximately seven thousand dollars in additional pay through September 12, 2015 to every mechanic, and that is without counting the impact on 401k contributions. Assuming AA had its best performance ever and made a billion a year for six straight years, profit sharing would be less than 3,800 dollars total. And we know that is not a realistic scenario because the combined talent of the two worst managements in this industry are not going to produce the best profits in the history of the passenger airline industry.

So you are saying the the profit sharing (along with the rest of the contract) that was negotiated for us was crap, right?

 

[Bob Owens]

There will be plenty of work in a merger and profit sharing was weak at best. We will earn more with the raise than profit sharing. Do you trust AA management to do that well that you will make $2500 plus in profit sharing?

Who knows? The lawyer from AA claimed we were going to get back every penny we gave up with the profit sharing, With the figures he thew out there it was $3 billion in profits expected, Parkers team claims they will net another $2 billion in synergies. Thats roughly $5 billion or $3125 in Profit Sharing right, would have been close to $10k if you hadnt given away 10% upfront to "save jobs" that they could not outsource anyway.

Hey I'll take the 4.3%. but we are still around 15% below everyone else, so why give up profit sharing? Profit sharing is supposed to motivate the workforce as they share in the gains. If they dont make a profit it costs them nothing. We will still be giving up more than anyone ever gave and without the Profit Sharing we are better off to not go above and beyond and work the OT than give the extra effort to save a trip or make an on time departure.We should have said the 4.3% was in exchange for supporting the merger, guess we got nothing for that.

And, I thought the whole point of the merger was to get rid of AA management? At least thats what the union has been saying for the last year, has that changed?

 

[Flying low]

Dang swamt, we got it, AMFA good, TWU bad. Not arguing that point, but geez, does every topic have to turn into a discussion about AMFA?

When is the vote???

Right after the merger. Then it will be another 5 year card drive...

 

[iluvaa]

So you are saying the the profit sharing (along with the rest of the contract) that was negotiated for us was crap, right?

He will only say parts are crap when it fits his spin of the day geez Bob keep up

 

[Realityck]

None of the elected officials had any say in this, they didnt even pretend to let them have a say.

I don't want to distract you from your vendetta but I was told the Presidents are meeting in Dallas this week. What did they say when you asked the Int'l about the return of the active employee's company prefunding money?

 

[AANOTOK]

Not speaking for Bob, Realityck, and didn't get a word in when Mr. Little was at our Hall (local 513), but I did ask an elected official from our local about the match and his feels as though it is very possible that it will stay in the fund and NOT be returned to the active members.

 

[Bob Owens]

I don't want to distract you from your vendetta but I was told the Presidents are meeting in Dallas this week. What did they say when you asked the Int'l about the return of the active employee's company prefunding money?

So in order to avoid answering the question you turn this into where was I this week?

Ok no problem, I did our EB, PHL membership, EWR membership, JFK /LGA membership meetings this week and just cancelled the Boston one due to the fact they are predicting very heavy snow, and may cancell all flights into Boston tonight and I didnt want to get stuck up there over the weekend. I usually do my membership meetings the week following the first monday of the month, so I did not go to the Presidents Council, I'll get an update from those who went. According to the International its not important for each area to have a representative there because once 591 is put in place there will only be one Line guy there anyway right? Experience over the last four years tells me I didnt miss much, certainly not anything worthwhile that I could not get in an E-mail.

You dont have to bother answering the question, we already know the answer.

 

[enough already]

If you TWU clowns had any brains....

Therein lies the problem.....

 

[exs]

Not speaking for Bob, Realityck, and didn't get a word in when Mr. Little was at our Hall (local 513), but I did ask an elected official from our local about the match and his feels as though it is very possible that it will stay in the fund and NOT be returned to the active members.

If this happens, it will be the final nail on the TWU coffin. The TWU are the best organizers AMFA has.


GO AMFA!!!

 

[AANOTOK]

In the April US/AA merger term sheet, this is indeed in there. And from what I'm told it will be implemented
with the merger.

401K: The reference to "5.5%" in the description of the 401(k) plan in Article VL3 of the M&R 1113 Proposal is replaced with "3%". For the avoidance of doubt, this change is made to confirm that the 401 (k) plan to be offered to M&R employees will provide a Company match up to 3% of eligible earnings (which includes base pay, licensees), premiums, and overtime). This change is made in exchange for other deal items.

It's in Fleets term as well.