Haven't Heard About the Extra 4% in Equity to be Held Aside?

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
So your solution is to not hold the leadership responsible, dump the TWU, get AMFA, and when they screw up then what? Blame them? Great plan.
 
The theme on this blog seems to blame everyone for the last ten years. It was the same on the-mechanic.com years before that. How has all the complaining on the internet worked out for you?

 
O/S
 
BY holding the leadership of the TWU accountable we are putting blame where it belongs. Bringing in AMFA is not going to solve all our problems since many here have been screwed for so long by the TWU/AA that they don't even care. (or know the difference.)
 
But there is a difference when the Leadership screws the membership under AMFA they can be removed. Unlike the TWU. or any other of the industrial unions, in our industry.
 
"YES" I agree AMFA has made mistakes in the past and we don't need to debate those all over again. What we need to do is bring a vote here to AA, in which we the membership can decide which union will take us into the future.
 
All the accusations you have made about the line local leadership may/maynot be true. If you have proof then bring them up on charges. Show the membership the proof. Don't just throw the dart.
 
This blog gives many some info and others a way to vent frustrations built up by the many yrs of the TWU failures.
 
Are you effected by this stock deal and if so then you should ask the questions as well.
 You seem to have the TWU kool aid flowing thru your blood, it's ok for you to bad mouth the line local officers but what are you doing to show us they are not doing their job. Talk is cheap, show us the proof.
 
I am not defending them since I would like the TWU as a whole GONE. The officers of 591 have not done what I hoped they would do by stopping the scamming. It has continued and they even made it worse because it costs more due to the raises they gave to them selves as did the previous Intl. officer.
 
What I hope that this time as we collect cards around the system, specially in Tulsa the members there,  have seen just what the TWU has done to our contract. The ability for AA, to contract work just as all the other carriers have done.
 
We have many new aircraft and they will not require heavy checks for yrs.
 
Either AA contracts that work out or pays for a maintenance facility they have no intention of using. Which is your version? What is the TWU's Plan? Cut wages, cut holidays even more, cut out medical, just to keep the base open? It's all about the dues and saving the Intl.'s money NOT about the members who pay dues.
 
"YES" GP has to take some blame since he was on the committee but like Ollie North he did not have the power you are saying that would make him completely responsible for this it lies with the tWU Intl. 5%-5%-4% shouldn't the TWU have had that all figured out from the beginning? Maybe they did, they just wanted to spring this bs on us in small amounts as time went on. 
 
O/S instead of trying to convince the membership that the TWU is good lets promote a vote and then you can see just how much of the bs you talk holds water.
 
AMFA at AA 2014
 
 
Have You all Had ENOUGH YET?

 

[NYer]

O/S
 
BY holding the leadership of the TWU accountable we are putting blame where it belongs. Bringing in AMFA is not going to solve all our problems since many here have been screwed for so long by the TWU/AA that they don't even care. (or know the difference.)
 
But there is a difference when the Leadership screws the membership under AMFA they can be removed. Unlike the TWU. or any other of the industrial unions, in our industry.
 
"YES" I agree AMFA has made mistakes in the past and we don't need to debate those all over again. What we need to do is bring a vote here to AA, in which we the membership can decide which union will take us into the future.
 
All the accusations you have made about the line local leadership may/maynot be true. If you have proof then bring them up on charges. Show the membership the proof. Don't just throw the dart.
 
This blog gives many some info and others a way to vent frustrations built up by the many yrs of the TWU failures.
 
Are you effected by this stock deal and if so then you should ask the questions as well.
 You seem to have the TWU kool aid flowing thru your blood, it's ok for you to bad mouth the line local officers but what are you doing to show us they are not doing their job. Talk is cheap, show us the proof.
 
I am not defending them since I would like the TWU as a whole GONE. The officers of 591 have not done what I hoped they would do by stopping the scamming. It has continued and they even made it worse because it costs more due to the raises they gave to them selves as did the previous Intl. officer.
 
What I hope that this time as we collect cards around the system, specially in Tulsa the members there,  have seen just what the TWU has done to our contract. The ability for AA, to contract work just as all the other carriers have done.
 
We have many new aircraft and they will not require heavy checks for yrs.
 
Either AA contracts that work out or pays for a maintenance facility they have no intention of using. Which is your version? What is the TWU's Plan? Cut wages, cut holidays even more, cut out medical, just to keep the base open? It's all about the dues and saving the Intl.'s money NOT about the members who pay dues.
 
"YES" GP has to take some blame since he was on the committee but like Ollie North he did not have the power you are saying that would make him completely responsible for this it lies with the tWU Intl. 5%-5%-4% shouldn't the TWU have had that all figured out from the beginning? Maybe they did, they just wanted to spring this bs on us in small amounts as time went on. 
 
O/S instead of trying to convince the membership that the TWU is good lets promote a vote and then you can see just how much of the bs you talk holds water.
 
AMFA at AA 2014
 
 
Have You all Had ENOUGH YET?

So, basically what you're saying is that the TWU sucks, the rest of the industry has done the same to their workers (so they stuck too) but at least with AMFA you can get rid of the leadership if you don't like what they've done. Is that correct?

 

[Overspeed]

 
O/S
 
BY holding the leadership of the TWU accountable we are putting blame where it belongs. Bringing in AMFA is not going to solve all our problems since many here have been screwed for so long by the TWU/AA that they don't even care. (or know the difference.)
 
But there is a difference when the Leadership screws the membership under AMFA they can be removed. Unlike the TWU. or any other of the industrial unions, in our industry.
 
"YES" I agree AMFA has made mistakes in the past and we don't need to debate those all over again. What we need to do is bring a vote here to AA, in which we the membership can decide which union will take us into the future.
 
All the accusations you have made about the line local leadership may/maynot be true. If you have proof then bring them up on charges. Show the membership the proof. Don't just throw the dart.
 
This blog gives many some info and others a way to vent frustrations built up by the many yrs of the TWU failures.
 
Are you effected by this stock deal and if so then you should ask the questions as well.
 You seem to have the TWU kool aid flowing thru your blood, it's ok for you to bad mouth the line local officers but what are you doing to show us they are not doing their job. Talk is cheap, show us the proof.
 
I am not defending them since I would like the TWU as a whole GONE. The officers of 591 have not done what I hoped they would do by stopping the scamming. It has continued and they even made it worse because it costs more due to the raises they gave to them selves as did the previous Intl. officer.
 
What I hope that this time as we collect cards around the system, specially in Tulsa the members there,  have seen just what the TWU has done to our contract. The ability for AA, to contract work just as all the other carriers have done.
 
We have many new aircraft and they will not require heavy checks for yrs.
 
Either AA contracts that work out or pays for a maintenance facility they have no intention of using. Which is your version? What is the TWU's Plan? Cut wages, cut holidays even more, cut out medical, just to keep the base open? It's all about the dues and saving the Intl.'s money NOT about the members who pay dues.
 
"YES" GP has to take some blame since he was on the committee but like Ollie North he did not have the power you are saying that would make him completely responsible for this it lies with the tWU Intl. 5%-5%-4% shouldn't the TWU have had that all figured out from the beginning? Maybe they did, they just wanted to spring this bs on us in small amounts as time went on. 
 
O/S instead of trying to convince the membership that the TWU is good lets promote a vote and then you can see just how much of the bs you talk holds water.
 
AMFA at AA 2014
 
 
Have You all Had ENOUGH YET?

 
Interesting, you want me to provide proof that the TWU officers are not doing their jobs.  You label me as a rock thrower and you have no proof yourself. In fact you acknowledge AMFA's past failings and say let's move beyond that. I ask the same thing for the TWU however I strongly believe we have done better than AMFA has under the same conditions. Hmmmmm...

 

[Rogallo]

So, basically what you're saying is that the TWU sucks, the rest of the industry has done the same to their workers (so they stuck too) but at least with AMFA you can get rid of the leadership if you don't like what they've done. Is that correct?

 
Yes, they all suck. But ours sucks the best!!!
And it's called termination. If performance is not satisfactory you get rid of them. What a concept!
TWU GOTTA GO!
 
You should've been a brain surgeon!

 

[NYer]

Yes, they all suck. But ours sucks the best!!!
And it's called termination. If performance is not satisfactory you get rid of them. What a concept!
TWU GOTTA GO!
 
You should've been a brain surgeon!

Lobotomy?

 

[MetalMover]

Oh this one is a classic. The TWU now has the Judge in pocket. Well in that case they really are pretty stupid as they should have just had the Judge sign an order that the TWU get's to keep the entire equity to themselves rather than give it to anyone at all. Or heck give the EBO people there share and keep the rest? 

A guy last week was going around with a Petition that he didn't think the TWU should "Hold" any of "Our" shares for the lawsuit. Yep how about we present that one to the Judge. 

Maybe the TWU could have told the BK Judge that we don't want to go through BK either? SMH.

Maybe it's just me, but has anyone else noticed that WeAAsles and NYer have really started to ramp on their posts on this forum around the same time the AMFA card drive also ramped up?
I guess Overspeed finally got some help.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

So, basically what you're saying is that the TWU sucks, the rest of the industry has done the same to their workers (so they stuck too) but at least with AMFA you can get rid of the leadership if you don't like what they've done. Is that correct?

 
"YES" I am saying that the TWU sucks at it's job. and what is going on in the rest of the industry is also not good. The IAM has done what for its members at US? The IBT over at the new UAL with CAL/UAL merged its been what almost 7 yrs no contract and they have not even merged the seniority with the same union on both property.
 
We can't wait that long to merge our members with the US mechanics, this will cause more harm to our class and craft for the future mechanics of the airlines. The faster we get to a point we can work on a JCBA under AMFA the better.
 
And "YES" if we don't like what the Nat. Dir or anyone else at AMFA Natl. is doing we can remove them. I can attend negotiations, and it separates my class and craft just like the Pilots and the F/A, and others like the electricians. 

 

[1AA]

So, basically what you're saying is that the TWU sucks, the rest of the industry has done the same to their workers (so they stuck too) but at least with AMFA you can get rid of the leadership if you don't like what they've done. Is that correct?

Sounds good to me. The pilots and flight attendants have been doing it that way for years.
They faired better in BK than we did. I believe the word I am thinking of is ACCOUNTABILITY to the membership. Gee what a concept in unionism.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
Interesting, you want me to provide proof that the TWU officers are not doing their jobs.  You label me as a rock thrower and you have no proof yourself. In fact you acknowledge AMFA's past failings and say let's move beyond that. I ask the same thing for the TWU however I strongly believe we have done better than AMFA has under the same conditions. Hmmmmm...

 
O/S 
 
I don't want you to list all the TWU failures just the ones your yapping about, ( 591 officers corruption) WE all here have had the debate over what the TWU has done vers AMFA and the failures of both. If you have proof about the money paid for college classes and any other thing that GP, GS, BO and the rest of the 591 officers then show us so we all can have a say. Give us the info to ask what the XXXK? what gives you the right to use our money for that? They say (591 officers) have set up a way to have themselves removed like AMFA, so if the stuff you are saying violates the rules lets see how that works here at the TWU?
 
Give us the chance to vote O/S and we will see just how/who the membership wants.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

 

[WeAAsles]

Maybe it's just me, but has anyone else noticed that WeAAsles and NYer have really started to ramp on their posts on this forum around the same time the AMFA card drive also ramped up?
I guess Overspeed finally got some help.

Maybe some of us aren't afraid of presenting the realities behind the debate. Basically all of the things you want to conveniently ignore in your drive because it doesn't support your cause. Do you really believe that this very small group you sing the praises of with their limited resources would have stood a chance in BANKRUPTCY court?

You have a clear example of AMFA representation and what that get's you with NWA and the same outcome would have probably occurred with AA had you had AMFA as your bargaining agent. Can you tell the readers why it wouldn't have been so? NWA wrote the playbook on how to destroy that group, they did and AA absolutely would have followed that same template.

Your card drive only has one way to succeed. Tap into the anger of those you want to sign up. That's the easy part but do you have any more meat to offer on that bone you're selling to people? What do you do to get those who can get past their emotions and want proven results? Under a BK scenario which union did far better than the other? Which one survived? Simple questions that your members need to ask themselves.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Maybe some of us aren't afraid of presenting the realities behind the debate. Basically all of the things you want to conveniently ignore in your drive because it doesn't support your cause. Do you really believe that this very small group you sing the praises of with their limited resources would have stood a chance in BANKRUPTCY court?

You have a clear example of AMFA representation and what that get's you with NWA and the same outcome would have probably occurred with AA had you had AMFA as your bargaining agent. Can you tell the readers why it wouldn't have been so? NWA wrote the playbook on how to destroy that group, they did and AA absolutely would have followed that same template.

Your card drive only has one way to succeed. Tap into the anger of those you want to sign up. That's the easy part but do you have any more meat to offer on that bone you're selling to people? What do you do to get those who can get past their emotions and want proven results? Under a BK scenario which union did far better than the other? Which one survived? Simple questions that your members need to ask themselves.

 
WeAAsles
 
We would not have the option of tapping into the anger of the membership against the TWU if they did their job, now would we?
 
How did the IAM fair against NWA they were there as well. What about the F/A union or the Pilots. How did the IAM work out for me and all the other Eastern employees?
How did the CAL guys and the USAirways guys do with the IAM under BK. Oh lets not forget UAL had the IAM there as well. The IBT has done what for our class and craft?
What did they do when the heat was on about fraudulent cards turned into the NMB which would of at least given us a chance to get a vote here. Have the Leaders of the IBT gotten the seniority issue and medical issues worked out between the CAL/UAL guys yet?
 
 But the TWU has done exactly what to show any fight here at AA. If we the membership gets a vote and puts AMFA in place all the dues of the AA and US guys will bolster the coffers of AMFA and we will see how well they do. Just here at AA we would give $7.2Mil a yr to AMFA.
 
We won't have high priced Natl. officers taking a cut either. Just how much did little Jimmy, Phat Don and Bobby G. make a yr? AMFA does not have guys like Chris O flying around the system supporting the TWU and HELPING AA, only to set up a future job as a Mgr at AA. Everyone wants to blame AMFA, this tiny little union which represents no-one, has no power. No Money, No clue, but all of you TWU supporters put the shutting Down of NWA on them.
 
Well if they are to blame then they must be AWESOME have the fight required to do the job. WE here with the TWU just bending over and saying what?  "We will get em next time" We are going to dig deep into the pockets"
 
Give us a break, the TWU has failed and it's time for a change. 
 
A change that will make a difference. WE Have Had ENOUGH, 
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

 

[WeAAsles]

 
WeAAsles
 
We would not have the option of tapping into the anger of the membership against the TWU if they did their job, now would we?

You are and always have been the TWU. Any union needs to have ALL of it's members participating if it's going to be successful. How have ALL of you fought against outsourcing?
 
How did the IAM fair against NWA they were there as well. What about the F/A union or the Pilots. How did the IAM work out for me and all the other Eastern employees?

NWA did not put the IAM out to pasture. The members switched unions and NWA put AMFA out to pasture. Did the IAM put Eastern out of business? What about the Pilots and Fa's?
 
How did the CAL guys and the USAirways guys do with the IAM under BK. Oh lets not forget UAL had the IAM there as well. The IBT has done what for our class and craft?

No Union has come out ahead under a BK scenario. Take a good long look at the Hostess story to understand that one. The BCTGM did the same thing as AMFA did at NWA and the same thing some of you wanted to do at AA and look what happened to them. Your only solutions are to fight against the laws, not your unions.
 
What did they do when the heat was on about fraudulent cards turned into the NMB which would of at least given us a chance to get a vote here. Have the Leaders of the IBT gotten the seniority issue and medical issues worked out between the CAL/UAL guys yet?

The IBT have become a joke to almost every other union out there, sadly. They scurried away from AA before they were publicly busted and humiliated. And we also all saw what just happened recently with them at Usair.
 
 But the TWU has done exactly what to show any fight here at AA. If we the membership gets a vote and puts AMFA in place all the dues of the AA and US guys will bolster the coffers of AMFA and we will see how well they do. Just here at AA we would give $7.2Mil a yr to AMFA.

How does AMFA have enough money to fight against the LAWS that are your real enemy. Do they have any backing? Do they have resources like our affiliation with the AFL/CIO? What can they do to shine a light on all the outsourcing and try to roll that back?
 
We won't have high priced Natl. officers taking a cut either. Just how much did little Jimmy, Phat Don and Bobby G. make a yr? AMFA does not have guys like Chris O flying around the system supporting the TWU and HELPING AA, only to set up a future job as a Mgr at AA. Everyone wants to blame AMFA, this tiny little union which represents no-one, has no power. No Money, No clue, but all of you TWU supporters put the shutting Down of NWA on them.

I'm not putting the shutting down of NWA on AMFA. NWA management destroyed them because they made critical errors and underestimated what the company would do to them. NWA took full advantage of the opportunity in front of them. They had almost no one on their side because of their history of raiding. As for the guys at the top of the TWU that you mentioned, where are they now? You have a big part of the change you wanted in front of you right now. You don't see that?
 
Well if they are to blame then they must be AWESOME have the fight required to do the job. WE here with the TWU just bending over and saying what?  "We will get em next time" We are going to dig deep into the pockets"
 
Give us a break, the TWU has failed and it's time for a change. 
 
A change that will make a difference. WE Have Had ENOUGH,

A change will make NO difference unless you ALL get off your individual duffs and get in the fight. You want those you elect to do it all for you. It doesn't work that way. Start writing letters to the editors, your elected leaders, helping those that are under attack just like you. You're not the only ones under attack in this Country you know.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

Sure. Insulate and isolate yourselves even more. How's that been working out in the Union movement so far? Tattered, torn and fractured. Your enemies love you for it. Kudos.

 

[WeAAsles]

Let me ask all of you readers on this forum one question.

Where are your work shoes or boots made? Pull back the tab and take a good look.

If you're not a part of the solution, then you're a part of the problem!

 

[1AA]

Let me ask all of you readers on this forum one question.

Where are your work shoes or boots made? Pull back the tab and take a good look.

If you're not a part of the solution, then you're a part of the problem!

Irrelevant. Unless you work Overhaul and fear outsourcing the work to China, South America and in our own back yard. Already happening under the TWU watch. Already happening at the line stations. CFP checks, MARRS checks, A checks, ECO's, etc...
 
Other airlines have been doing it, regionals and majors. TWU with all the money and political clout under the Almighty AFL-CIO has done NOTHING to stop it.
Just keep paying dues and and we will look out for your best interest is all the TWU has been telling us. Time for a change and let the members decide what is in OUR best interest. That is called ACCOUNTABILITY. Gee what a union concept.

 

[WeAAsles]

Irrelevant. Unless you work Overhaul and fear outsourcing the work to China, South America and in our own back yard. Already happening under the TWU watch. Already happening at the line stations. CFP checks, MARRS checks, A checks, ECO's, etc...

Irrelevant? Only if you live on an Island which maybe you think you do? Open your eyes and look around at what's happening in the USA "everywhere" you turn. American's want cheap crap and I bet that you're one of those same Americans. 

 
Other airlines have been doing it, regionals and majors. TWU with all the money and political clout under the Almighty AFL-CIO has done NOTHING to stop it.

No they haven't done nothing to stop it. YOU have done nothing to stop it. The race to the outsourcing bottom I'm sure has plenty of Chinese and Mexican products right in your own house.

 
Just keep paying dues and and we will look out for your best interest is all the TWU has been telling us. Time for a change and let the members decide what is in OUR best interest. That is called ACCOUNTABILITY. Gee what a union concept.

I don't think you even really know what is in your own best interest? You can move to a bigger or smaller house but you're still going to be living in the same crummy neighborhood. What have you done for your neighborhood and neighbors. Just put bars on your windows and lock your doors at night I guess?

ACCOUNTABILITY starts by looking in a mirror.