Haven't Heard About the Extra 4% in Equity to be Held Aside?

[NYer]

I agree with you! The TWU should have provided us this information prior to the intial distribution.  The TWU claims none of this information was known until day 120. But, the TWU had to use some type of calculator with data inputed for us to receive any of our distributions. This information had to be known! I have been saying this since the first distibution on a thread I started back in January.

 
The formula was presented during the Equity Roadshows in the summer of 2013, and even had examples of how it worked using illustrative numbers.

 

[NYer]

FWAAA, the problem is the lack of explanation from the TWU. The only thing they made clear before the first distribution was that they were taking 5% for grievances. they they said they were taking another 5% for the equity lawsuit claimed by those who took the early out..Then they added another 4% for fees and other items. 
The way I see it is that the TWU elected NOT to give the early outs any equity.....But some of OUR equity is being held hostage to this lawsuit..
Not only that, but the entire equity allocated to TWU members was also affected but the 757 grievance. 
 
So forgive me if I don't buy what the TWU is selling.

 
The 5% was brought that brought the total to 10% was created by one of the lawsuits filed in which the Early Out's claim their portion of the total distribution is equivalent to 10% of the total. The third lawsuit by the Early Outs threatened an injunction that would have held ALL of the final distribution until the lawsuit was addressed. In order to not hold the entire distribution, the Judge Orrick ordered 14% be held.

 

[limit]

Oh Crap!   I'm the loser who told people that old AAMRQ would undoubtedly be cancelled, value-less, at the end of the bankruptcy (like in every other airline bankruptcy ever).   Little did I know that Horton would hatch a plan to hand those shareholders the biggest share of new AAL:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/10/the-untold-story-of-american-airlines-big-payout/
 
Before this week's sell-off, the holders of old AMR had about $11 billion worth of new stock.   

I find it very difficult to belive Horton and the rest  cared about anyone but themselves.
Its more likely the plan was devised so that pre BK  AA management owned shares are not lost in bunkrupsy but provide a huge windfall instead  .

 

[MetalMover]

 Thinking outside the anger and mistrust many things fall into the realm of common sense. 

 

Oh, so you trust the TWU?  
Hopefully they will be off the property as soon as possible. Common sense should dictate they need to be removed.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh, so you trust the TWU?  
Hopefully they will be off the property as soon as possible. Common sense should dictate they need to be removed.

No I believe the things I read and research for myself. I believe the work I do in fact checking what is given to me to understand if it's credible or not. I look outside the box to understand how circumstances came to be and why we are where we're at. I don't let my personal anger and emotions get the better of me and I don't follow the crowd either. I also don't follow the politicians and those who have agendas that only really benefit themselves.

I "totally" know what's going on. Do you, or do you even really care?

 

[HMK]

 
How could you use a calculator to figure out your shares without knowing what the share price would be in the future and how many shares would be available for each distribution? Can you tell us today how much our shares will be worth tomorrow afternoon?
 
You can only figure out what numbers to plug in after you know the numbers.

No one here is asking about predicting the future price of the stock. What is being asked....We were given the intial distribution at $22.55/share. The TWU knows this and we the members know this.  A formula with known values was used, to come up with what we received. For the second distribution, the price was $26.91, again using the same formula the TWU determined what we members received. The same info was used for the remaining distributions. Only on Day 120, were we enlightened with the formula that the TWU used. From your statement, it seems that the TWU was able to provide us with all known values and factors from the beginning, leaving us to plug in the share price at the time of each distribution ....but withheld this information. Why?
Why not be transparent with a calculator with every distribution???

 

[NYer]

No one here is asking about predicting the future price of the stock. What is being asked....We were given the intial distribution at $22.55/share. The TWU knows this and we the members know this.  A formula with known values was used, to come up with what we received. For the second distribution, the price was $26.91, again using the same formula the TWU determined what we members received. The same info was used for the remaining distributions. Only on Day 120, were we enlightened with the formula that the TWU used. From your statement, it seems that the TWU was able to provide us with all known values and factors from the beginning, leaving us to plug in the share price at the time of each distribution ....but withheld this information. Why?
Why not be transparent with a calculator with every distribution???

The formula was not withheld. it was used during all the Roadshows last summer. You even had Bosley using that formula trying to figure out what was happening. It's never been a secret.

It was even posted on the 591 website on December 5th, 2013

 

[HMK]

The formula was not withheld. it was used during all the Roadshows last summer. You even had Bosley using that formula trying to figure out what was happening. It's never been a secret.

It was even posted on the 591 website on December 5th, 2013

The Data/Values inputed into the formula were withheld. At each distribution, it should have been provided. It is really that simple. 

 

[bob@las-AA]

I've downloaded the calculator and I will try to post a chart for you comparison, so, please stand by.
 
PS mine came to exact total plus one share.

 

[NYer]

The Data/Values inputed into the formula were withheld. At each distribution, it should have been provided. It is really that simple.

What's the difference? There was no way to tell if the numbers were current until all the numbers were available. if you had the formula how would you know you received the proper amount on Day 30, for example.

 

[chilokie1]

Has anyone put out a graph or chart to show how the other unions at AA 
handled their stock in relation to the TWU?
My problem is the formula  that was given out at the roadshow was just
a best guess estimate of the value of the company when it exits bankruptcy.
When we received our first allocation of shares why were we not given the 
total dollar value of the remaining shares on that day?
We all knew the value of AA stock would climb, who was actually issued the
stock? I am guessing it was the TWU,  my account says value of shares. We
were told they distributed the stock over 120 days as not to dilute the value 
of the stock, but who benefited $14 to $17 dollar a share increase on the 
final dispersement? The TWU? AA?  "NOT ME"
What happens if the stock should tank and the TWU loses the lawsuits?
Will I have another line in the after tax area of my paycheck titled,
 CHECKOFF- TWU/UNDERFUNDED RETIREE LAWSUIT----$xxx.xx (sucker)

 

[Overspeed]

Has anyone put out a graph or chart to show how the other unions at AA 
handled their stock in relation to the TWU?
My problem is the formula  that was given out at the roadshow was just
a best guess estimate of the value of the company when it exits bankruptcy.
When we received our first allocation of shares why were we not given the 
total dollar value of the remaining shares on that day?
We all knew the value of AA stock would climb, who was actually issued the
stock? I am guessing it was the TWU,  my account says value of shares. We
were told they distributed the stock over 120 days as not to dilute the value 
of the stock, but who benefited $14 to $17 dollar a share increase on the 
final dispersement? The TWU? AA?  "NOT ME"
What happens if the stock should tank and the TWU loses the lawsuits?
Will I have another line in the after tax area of my paycheck titled,
 CHECKOFF- TWU/UNDERFUNDED RETIREE LAWSUIT----$xxx.xx (sucker)

 
Good questions. Are you submitting these to the local in writing? If they don't answer I would think a DFR complaint against the local is in order.
 
To your question on the 14% hold back, I am asking about the if all the stock was issued to the TWU to hold including the 14%, then we should get the same stock distribution had the lawsuit never been filed. That is if the lawsuit fails.

 

[bob@las-AA]

For the Full timers, copy and paste in this order.
First one goes in A1 cell, in excel,
Second one goes in B1.......
Third one C1
Fourth one D1
Fifth one E1

Please note the text that is red in this post, you must change it to match
your years of service, wage and add any longevity pay and crew chief pay also.
A was sent to your adders back then with this info on it.
Also each of the formulas are for Fleet ONLY.
Keep in mind that do to rounding errors ti might be olus or minus a share or two.

Place in A1

=ROUND((((0.157965*14.03/176481.02*0.5) + (3/168162*0.5) + (0.067613/176481.02) + (0.13339/9058))*7340875),0)

Place in B1

=ROUND((((0.157965*14.03/176538.66*0.5) + (3/168225*0.5) + (0.067613/176538.66) + (0.13339/9061))*306542),0)

Place in C1

=ROUND((((0.157965*14.03/176538.66*0.5) + (3/168225*0.5) + (0.067613/176538.66) + (0.13339/9061))*238715),0)

Place in D1

=ROUND((((0.157965*14.03/176672.34*0.5) + (3/168335*0.5) + (0.067613/176672.34) + (0.13339/9068))*238715),0)

Place in E1

=ROUND((((0.157965*14.03/176672.34*0.5) + (3/168335*0.5) + (0.067613/176672.34) + (0.13339/9068))*1227366),0)



Now the Part Timers.

Place In A1

=ROUND((((0.157965*((21.16*0.7/176481.02*0.5)+(3/168162*0.5)))+(0.067613*(21.16*0.7/176481.02))+(0.13339/9058))*7340875),0)

Place in B1

=ROUND((((0.157965*((21.16*0.7/176538.66*0.5)+(10/168225*0.5)))+(0.067613*(21.16*0.7/176538.66))+(0.13339/9061))*306542),0)

Place in C1

=ROUND((((0.157965*((21.16*0.7/176538.66*0.5)+(10/168225*0.5)))+(0.067613*(21.16*0.7/176538.66))+(0.13339/9061))*238715),0)

Place in D1

=ROUND((((0.157965*((21.16*0.7/176672.34*0.5)+(10/168335*0.5)))+(0.067613*(21.16*0.7/176538.66))+(0.13339/9068))*232219),0)

Place in E1

=ROUND((((0.157965*((21.16*0.7/176672.34*0.5)+(10/168335*0.5)))+(0.067613*(21.16*0.7/176538.66))+(0.13339/9068))*1227366),0)


On a side note, The TWU was granted 10,867,112 shares of stock less 14% for hold back, for a remainder of 9,345,717 for all the members
of the TWU that we received.
 
And this is that the formula is Simplifyed
 
TWU (0.13339/NEP + (7 PS W)/(10 TWB) + SS (3703/(500 TWB) + Y/(2 AYS)))

 

[MetalMover]

A lawsuit, threatened injunction and a Judge determined those extra holds. That FACT seems to be well ignored by certain individuals for some reason. Thinking outside the anger and mistrust many things fall into the realm of common sense. There are no crystal balls for these types of issues and if I had one I would play multiple lotteries and own my personal Island in the Caribbean. 

As for the Early Outs whether they are really entitled to equity now will be up to the courts. If they lose then we all know the real answer and that would be that they were not entitled. If they win then we know too that they should have been included. I call any decision "Peace Of Mind"

Are you sure about that? Are you sure the TWU did not present what they wanted to Judge and he simply signed off on it?

 

[NYer]

Are you sure about that? Are you sure the TWU did not present what they wanted to Judge and he simply signed off on it?

What Judge gives a Court Order because a "defendant" wants it? An action like that doesn't make sense.

If the 14% wasn't held the plaintiffs were looking for an injunction to prevent all distributions. That would have meant we wouldn't of received anything last week. Those were the two choices 0% distributed or holding 14%.