Haven't Heard About the Extra 4% in Equity to be Held Aside?

[NYer]

..."no fractional shares of New Mandatorily Convertible Preferred Stock or New Common Stock shall be distributed; provided, however, that (i) any fractional shares of New Mandatorily Convertible Preferred Stock shall be rounded down to the next whole number or zero, as applicable and (ii) any fractional shares of New Common Stock shall be rounded up or down to the next whole number or zero, as applicable (with one-half being closer to the next lower whole number for this purpose). No consideration shall be provided in lieu of fractional shares that are rounded down." -Approved Plan of Reorganization.

 

[scorpion 2]

No, the employees received 100% of their claim as negotiated by their worthless A-Hole union leaders.   
 
Other non-employee creditors received 100% of their claims as well, but they non-employee creditors weren't represented by ignorant morons.  

One thing I havn't seen mentioned is how the employees that had shares/units in their 401's were not given the option to let the shares ride like the rest of the world did. Are's were sold at a few bucks a share and the funds moved to different areas in our 401 account without our consent. We got screwed out of the new equity replacement shares.   Curious who picked up these shares and how many company insiders new this old equity would be replaced with new stock before the rest of the world did? I've got a feeling that a lot of proxy purchases were made before the rest of the general public was made aware of the replacement equity plan. 

 

[FWAAA]

One thing I havn't seen mentioned is how the employees that had shares/units in their 401's were not given the option to let the shares ride like the rest of the world did. Are's were sold at a few bucks a share and the funds moved to different areas in our 401 account without our consent. We got screwed out of the new equity replacement shares.   Curious who picked up these shares and how many company insiders new this old equity would be replaced with new stock before the rest of the world did? I've got a feeling that a lot of proxy purchases were made before the rest of the general public was made aware of the replacement equity plan. 

That's a very good point.   When were the old AAMRQ (old AMR stock) shares cashed out in the 401k accounts?   
 
Who got that old stock?   It was sold in the open market over the counter to any speculator who gambled (correctly, as it turns out) that the old stock would not be cancelled without any value (as usually happens) but instead would share in dividends upon emergence from Ch 11.
 
Turns out the bondholders were fully repaid AND may have received an equity kicker (bonus) in addition to their 100% repayment, adding insult to injury for the mistreatment of the AA employees.   I said "may" because it was discussed in a Fortune magazine article this week about Horton's role in ensuring that the old AMR stockholders got to share in the wealth when AA emerged on December 9.   Might be poor writing and may not be true, but if it is true, then the employees were really screwed, as their claim didn't appear to have any bonus component.   Here's the article:
 
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/10/the-untold-story-of-american-airlines-big-payout/

 

[MetalMover]

Bottom line. We were mislead, if lead at all, from day one. There should have been explainations throughout the entire BS process. Instead we get a Q&A about how we got f%$#ed after we got f#$%ed. Again,m anything that has to do with money, the company, or this union.....half empty.

Not only that.. The TWU just released the equity "calculator." All you have to do is put in a few numbers and PRESTO! It calculates yours shares....Don't you think they should have released the calculator PRIOR to first distribution?
Releasing it after final distribution makes me wonder whether or not it was tailored to our final numbers rather than the other way around.

 

[AANOTOK]

Guess I should have sold...I'm losing my ass now.

 

[FWAAA]

Not only that.. The TWU just released the equity "calculator." All you have to do is put in a few numbers and PRESTO! It calculates yours shares....Don't you think they should have released the calculator PRIOR to first distribution?
Releasing it after final distribution makes me wonder whether or not it was tailored to our final numbers rather than the other way around.

I'm not carrying a torch for the liars at the TWU, but this is one place where I don't think they're lying:   The 120 distribution technique wasn't imposed by the TWU - it was imposed on all employee distributions, including the APA, the APFA and the non-union employees.   The number of shares to which you're entitled wasn't known until this week, because the stock price for the last 30 days was used to calculate everyone's share of the stock.   
 
I realize that a lot of you posted over and over again that you wanted to see the calculator after each monthly distribution, beginning with the first, but until this week, nobody knew what numbers to program into a calculator to compute the actual number of shares for any employee.   
 
It's unfortunate that you guys had to endure a Ch 11 case with "representation" that has historically been so crappy and incompetent.   As I posted here the day that AMR filed for Ch 11, the saddest news for AA's mechanics in bankruptcy was that the worthless union had not yet been replaced by November 29, 2011.   Even worse, it's now April 11, 2014 and the $&@&heads are still doing a lousy job for you.   But nobody could predict exactly how many shares anyone would be entitled to get until this week.   All they could do was estimate and provide some "what-if" numbers.   Now that all the variables have actual values we can look up in the stock price records, you can finally compute how many shares you get.    
 
Nobody could predict on December 9, 2013, how much you would weigh this afternoon, as nobody knew how much you'd eat or how much you would diet in those 120 days.   Similarly, nobody knew how high (or low) the stock would move or where it would be every 30 days or exactly what each share would be worth this past week.   

 

[FWAAA]

Guess I should have sold...I'm losing my ass now.

It's never a good idea to give investment advice, but I never like selling anything the same day or week that everyone else wants to sell the exact same thing, as that generally causes the price to fall.  As Warren Buffett has repeatedly said, he didn't get rich by selling when everyone else was selling.  In part, he became even wealthier by buying from the scared sellers.  Buy low, sell high.  
 
This week the floodgates have opened on tens (hundreds) of millions of shares of AAL that the holders can sell for the first time.   Unless you need the cash to keep the repo man away this weekend, I'd sit tight until the earnings report in two weeks.   The fundamentals haven't changed - consolidation should bring higher fares and profits.   Why else was Parker keen on capturing the last bit of your profit sharing? 

 

[AANOTOK]

I will take that as "good investment advice" and stay in for awhile...

 

[FWAAA]

I will take that as "good investment advice" and stay in for awhile...

Oh Crap!   I'm the loser who told people that old AAMRQ would undoubtedly be cancelled, value-less, at the end of the bankruptcy (like in every other airline bankruptcy ever).   Little did I know that Horton would hatch a plan to hand those shareholders the biggest share of new AAL:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/10/the-untold-story-of-american-airlines-big-payout/
 
Before this week's sell-off, the holders of old AMR had about $11 billion worth of new stock.   

 

[HMK]

Not only that.. The TWU just released the equity "calculator." All you have to do is put in a few numbers and PRESTO! It calculates yours shares....Don't you think they should have released the calculator PRIOR to first distribution?
Releasing it after final distribution makes me wonder whether or not it was tailored to our final numbers rather than the other way around.

I agree with you! The TWU should have provided us this information prior to the intial distribution.  The TWU claims none of this information was known until day 120. But, the TWU had to use some type of calculator with data inputed for us to receive any of our distributions. This information had to be known! I have been saying this since the first distibution on a thread I started back in January.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

That's a very good point.   When were the old AAMRQ (old AMR stock) shares cashed out in the 401k accounts?   
 
Who got that old stock?   It was sold in the open market over the counter to any speculator who gambled (correctly, as it turns out) that the old stock would not be cancelled without any value (as usually happens) but instead would share in dividends upon emergence from Ch 11.
 
Turns out the bondholders were fully repaid AND may have received an equity kicker (bonus) in addition to their 100% repayment, adding insult to injury for the mistreatment of the AA employees.   I said "may" because it was discussed in a Fortune magazine article this week about Horton's role in ensuring that the old AMR stockholders got to share in the wealth when AA emerged on December 9.   Might be poor writing and may not be true, but if it is true, then the employees were really screwed, as their claim didn't appear to have any bonus component.   Here's the article:
 
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/10/the-untold-story-of-american-airlines-big-payout/

Very telling article an it leads me to believe that Bob Owens was right and we did have some skin in the game. If the 74 %ers in TULE would have realized this we may have gotten a better deal! Thanks to the Overspeeds and his type the followers of fear prevailed and we are stuck with this POS contract for years to come.

 

[MetalMover]

I'm not carrying a torch for the liars at the TWU, but this is one place where I don't think they're lying:   The 120 distribution technique wasn't imposed by the TWU - it was imposed on all employee distributions, including the APA, the APFA and the non-union employees.   The number of shares to which you're entitled wasn't known until this week, because the stock price for the last 30 days was used to calculate everyone's share of the stock.   
 
I realize that a lot of you posted over and over again that you wanted to see the calculator after each monthly distribution, beginning with the first, but until this week, nobody knew what numbers to program into a calculator to compute the actual number of shares for any employee.   
 
It's unfortunate that you guys had to endure a Ch 11 case with "representation" that has historically been so crappy and incompetent.   As I posted here the day that AMR filed for Ch 11, the saddest news for AA's mechanics in bankruptcy was that the worthless union had not yet been replaced by November 29, 2011.   Even worse, it's now April 11, 2014 and the $&@&heads are still doing a lousy job for you.   But nobody could predict exactly how many shares anyone would be entitled to get until this week.   All they could do was estimate and provide some "what-if" numbers.   Now that all the variables have actual values we can look up in the stock price records, you can finally compute how many shares you get.    
 
Nobody could predict on December 9, 2013, how much you would weigh this afternoon, as nobody knew how much you'd eat or how much you would diet in those 120 days.   Similarly, nobody knew how high (or low) the stock would move or where it would be every 30 days or exactly what each share would be worth this past week.   

FWAAA, the problem is the lack of explanation from the TWU. The only thing they made clear before the first distribution was that they were taking 5% for grievances. they they said they were taking another 5% for the equity lawsuit claimed by those who took the early out..Then they added another 4% for fees and other items. 
The way I see it is that the TWU elected NOT to give the early outs any equity.....But some of OUR equity is being held hostage to this lawsuit..
Not only that, but the entire equity allocated to TWU members was also affected but the 757 grievance. 
 
So forgive me if I don't buy what the TWU is selling.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's never a good idea to give investment advice, but I never like selling anything the same day or week that everyone else wants to sell the exact same thing, as that generally causes the price to fall.  As Warren Buffett has repeatedly said, he didn't get rich by selling when everyone else was selling.  In part, he became even wealthier by buying from the scared sellers.  Buy low, sell high.  
 
This week the floodgates have opened on tens (hundreds) of millions of shares of AAL that the holders can sell for the first time.   Unless you need the cash to keep the repo man away this weekend, I'd sit tight until the earnings report in two weeks.   The fundamentals haven't changed - consolidation should bring higher fares and profits.   Why else was Parker keen on capturing the last bit of your profit sharing? 

Absolutely true. And right now the buyers are just waiting for the sellers to bottom out before they start a tear on purchasing from the people who hit that panic button. This selloff was very much expected if you actually read the Wall Street cheat sheets.

 

[NYer]

Not only that.. The TWU just released the equity "calculator." All you have to do is put in a few numbers and PRESTO! It calculates yours shares....Don't you think they should have released the calculator PRIOR to first distribution?
Releasing it after final distribution makes me wonder whether or not it was tailored to our final numbers rather than the other way around.

 
How could you use a calculator to figure out your shares without knowing what the share price would be in the future and how many shares would be available for each distribution? Can you tell us today how much our shares will be worth tomorrow afternoon?
 
You can only figure out what numbers to plug in after you know the numbers.

 

[WeAAsles]

FWAAA, the problem is the lack of explanation from the TWU. The only thing they made clear before the first distribution was that they were taking 5% for grievances. they they said they were taking another 5% for the equity claimed by those who took the early out..Then they added another 4% for fees and other items. 
The way I see it is that the TWU elected NOT to give the early outs any equity.....But some of OUR equity is being held hostage to this lawsuit..
Not only that, but the entire equity allocated to TWU members was also affected but the 757 grievance. 
 
So forgive me if I don't buy what the TWU is selling.

A lawsuit, threatened injunction and a Judge determined those extra holds. That FACT seems to be well ignored by certain individuals for some reason. Thinking outside the anger and mistrust many things fall into the realm of common sense. There are no crystal balls for these types of issues and if I had one I would play multiple lotteries and own my personal Island in the Caribbean. 

As for the Early Outs whether they are really entitled to equity now will be up to the courts. If they lose then we all know the real answer and that would be that they were not entitled. If they win then we know too that they should have been included. I call any decision "Peace Of Mind"