Future Tulsa 514 President Dan Mitchell Removed From Office
- Thread starter Man of the People
- Start date
767 mechanic
Veteran
- Aug 8, 2004
- 544
- 527
Who was going to be his replacement? I know it had to be a yes man and int suckup.
BigMac
Veteran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abjf9IRAMR4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I may be older than most of you but I did learn a few things along the way.
Just out of curiosity but did you (comatose, Horton and the Who, Commies aren’t cool, and Szabo) ever run for Local President and get elected? My guess is probably not, or if you did, probably didn’t get enough votes to get elected because your fellow AMTs didn’t support you. I grant that in the older days it would have been more difficult due to the mixed classification Locals, but with the establishment of the new Mechanic & Related dominated Locals that’s no longer an excuse.
I said before that I respect the SWA AMTs because they’re all hard workers who earn their keep. Another huge advantage they have is a management group that generally respects its employees and has a time-tested business plan. You know that’s true. AMFA was fortunate to inherit their contract and now some imply Southwest’s position in the industry is because of AMFA. If you believe that you certainly don’t know much about Southwest Airlines.
Since Deregulation every Union has gone through tough times including the IAM, IBT TWU and AMFA. The number of Major Carrier Bankruptcies is proof of that. Surviving has become a challenge to us all. There is no easy answer to our fight for our careers and family’s security. Promising some instant miracle by changing from one organization to another doesn’t gain us the advantage Southwest AMT’s have. Some would have us believe its as simple as changing to a new flavor of the month, it’s not.
No one can predict the outcome of the Bankruptcy Proceedings and how that may impact our contracts. After more than 5 years in negotiations, longer for the other Unions on the property, the future looks pretty grim right now. We need to come together and work out the best contract terms we can under the circumstances. All the other Unions have faced this challenge and survived. Our choice is either to stand together and deal with it, or follow those who suggest we only have to change the name on the door to reach the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That’s not how the real world works.
Whatever your viewpoint, good luck to us all.
Just out of curiosity but did you (comatose, Horton and the Who, Commies aren’t cool, and Szabo) ever run for Local President and get elected? My guess is probably not, or if you did, probably didn’t get enough votes to get elected because your fellow AMTs didn’t support you. I grant that in the older days it would have been more difficult due to the mixed classification Locals, but with the establishment of the new Mechanic & Related dominated Locals that’s no longer an excuse.
I said before that I respect the SWA AMTs because they’re all hard workers who earn their keep. Another huge advantage they have is a management group that generally respects its employees and has a time-tested business plan. You know that’s true. AMFA was fortunate to inherit their contract and now some imply Southwest’s position in the industry is because of AMFA. If you believe that you certainly don’t know much about Southwest Airlines.
Since Deregulation every Union has gone through tough times including the IAM, IBT TWU and AMFA. The number of Major Carrier Bankruptcies is proof of that. Surviving has become a challenge to us all. There is no easy answer to our fight for our careers and family’s security. Promising some instant miracle by changing from one organization to another doesn’t gain us the advantage Southwest AMT’s have. Some would have us believe its as simple as changing to a new flavor of the month, it’s not.
No one can predict the outcome of the Bankruptcy Proceedings and how that may impact our contracts. After more than 5 years in negotiations, longer for the other Unions on the property, the future looks pretty grim right now. We need to come together and work out the best contract terms we can under the circumstances. All the other Unions have faced this challenge and survived. Our choice is either to stand together and deal with it, or follow those who suggest we only have to change the name on the door to reach the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That’s not how the real world works.
Whatever your viewpoint, good luck to us all.
Frank Szabo
Veteran
Nope - never ran for an office of any kind at any time within any organization nor do I have any desire to - that's not what I do - especially not in an organization such as the twu.
You're quite correct in that changing the name over the door won't solve any of our most pressing problems yet I see no movement toward anything but business as usual within our representation group.
I don't claim to be an Oracle capable of devining the future but it does seem that needed change is afoot - a group that claimed no interest in AA's mechanics previously now wants to start organizing to represent same. Oddly, this occured shortly after the beginning of a card drive for other representation yet - interesting - sounds more like a "Please help us stay in power" plea.
"Untold riches" won't result from any representational change - the majority of those who are presently dissatisfied know and understand that.
Why would so many prefer the unknown (with respect to representation) to the staus quo? That is the question the twu supporters have to answer for themselves, assuming they don't already know the answer.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
You may be older, which in my book makes you wiser, however not necessarily smarter. I for one welcome any lesson you can provide.
Now two questions:
1: if you are able why have you not retired?
2: if we as a majority feel that the TWU has failed to provide representation,for the mechanics,why should we not seek to change our representative.?
Now two questions:
1: if you are able why have you not retired?
2: if we as a majority feel that the TWU has failed to provide representation,for the mechanics,why should we not seek to change our representative.?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
So why have you not left? Are you having financial issues because of being represented by the TWU?
Don't feel bad, I know others that are in the same shape and cannot afford medical insuarance and will be around longer too.
I tried to run for Local President but was prevented because a Union Officer filed an objection to the election board and because of my previous support of AMFA was not allowed to run for any Office, much less the President position. After years of telling us to join them and get united, just as you are claiming now, that did not include being an officer at the Kremlin on Pine Street.
Every TWU sypmathizer during the last organizing effort blamed AMFA for every negative in the industry since Delle-Femine was an AMT at AA. Now, if there is positive on their record, it is not because of AMFA but because of luck or good fortune. Amazing how that works both ways and against AMFA. Really?
Fight? Fight how? I dont see the TWU fighting, never have and never will. And I promise no miracles, just a craft union that has democratic principles, instead of appointed liars that are accountable to no member. I am one that knows that changing unions is serious business, but I have had enough and I am ready for and welcome the change.
John Hewitt and Rick Mullings were predicting the BK outcome if there was a NO vote, and within days they were proven liars. I think the future looks better than ever, and we need to prepare for that with a Union of Craft instead of the Industrial Union "Strength in Numbers", political machine that fails at every turn they take. Why does unification always mean we have to stay with the TWU to each of you zealots that cannot allow democracy to decide? Why not Unite ALL Mechanics into ONE UNION? Which is the AMFA idea that because of negative thinkers like yourself, or fear stricken lucky to have a job brother cowards, has never been tried in this industry.
We can sit back and wait on luck, or we can take action.
The first action will have to be a representational election. If you support the TWU then fine, but sign a card and let's have a vote. That is the only way we will ever unite. The TWU prevented that vote in 2003 using deceased, retired, resigned, TWA employees. That is not the direction of unification, that is the direct of an organization that only has members by Government force and that is why TWU is weak.
Any more questions?
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
realityck,
"Since Deregulation every Union has gone through tough times including the IAM, IBT TWU and AMFA. The number of Major Carrier Bankruptcies is proof of that. Surviving has become a challenge to us all. There is no easy answer to our fight for our careers and family’s security. Promising some instant miracle by changing from one organization to another doesn’t gain us the advantage Southwest AMT’s have. Some would have us believe its as simple as changing to a new flavor of the month, it’s not."
There you and twu supporters every where go again...saying things that are not true. Show me where any supporter for AMFA promised "some instant miracle" by voting in AMFA. You are a liar. The twu international, yourself and other john hewitt types are unable to defend the twu constitution. PERIOD! The twu international, yourself and other john hewitt types are unable to point out why twu international officers are APPOINTED and why they earn THREE TIMES what AMTs make while AMTs take pay cuts.
Come on realityck, defend these truths. Perhaps you should change your alias to "alternate reality". Your support of the twu indicates that you are either an international officer trying to protect the twu or you are an individual who can not think for themself and types what they are told to write.
"Since Deregulation every Union has gone through tough times including the IAM, IBT TWU and AMFA. The number of Major Carrier Bankruptcies is proof of that. Surviving has become a challenge to us all. There is no easy answer to our fight for our careers and family’s security. Promising some instant miracle by changing from one organization to another doesn’t gain us the advantage Southwest AMT’s have. Some would have us believe its as simple as changing to a new flavor of the month, it’s not."
There you and twu supporters every where go again...saying things that are not true. Show me where any supporter for AMFA promised "some instant miracle" by voting in AMFA. You are a liar. The twu international, yourself and other john hewitt types are unable to defend the twu constitution. PERIOD! The twu international, yourself and other john hewitt types are unable to point out why twu international officers are APPOINTED and why they earn THREE TIMES what AMTs make while AMTs take pay cuts.
Come on realityck, defend these truths. Perhaps you should change your alias to "alternate reality". Your support of the twu indicates that you are either an international officer trying to protect the twu or you are an individual who can not think for themself and types what they are told to write.
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,065
Why are you here? You obviously as giddy as a teenage girl listening to Justin Bieber when you talk about AMFA. Did you take a hit in your wallet just to bring AMFA here for the last 20 some odd years? Good choice and you want us to listen to you?
So you made a bad decision previously and you don't think you should be held accountable? One of many bad decisions Dave that leaves you still trying to get in a union/association that probably still won't let you pound the gavel and throwing rocks and slinging mud at others. Why? Because they see through your false promises and delusions of grandeur. AMFA was and is a failed experiment unless enriching 10% of your members at the expense of the other 90% who lose their jobs is a win. You are probably going to be in that 10% though which is why you are so desperate to get AMFA or AMP in.
What "positive"? Trashing 90% of the careers of the members you signed up. AS lost the entire OAK base while they were not in BK. The IAM had a far better deal than AMFA before BK but the UA members believed the BS that AMFA could get better. Uh, no. They got worse, much worse. WN is a win. How does and airline nearly triple in size and add only few hundred jobs while raising the pay of its members? Outsourcing to El Salvador! Thanks third world for subsidizing my pay raise. How come AMFA didn't strike to keep that work in the US or better yet, in a hangar staffed with more $42/hour mechanics? No, easier to roll over in the face of adversity and get a few bucks more for the members you have. That sounds kind of like a dues collection organization for the Nat'l so they can keep their six figure salaries huh? They probably still have to make payments on Delle's $500K annuity that no one else gets, not one other of AMFA's members or officers ever got that deal.
Democratic principles at AMFA? Did they vote for Delle's one time only $500K annuity? Uh, no.
Hewitt and Mullings wrong. Uh, we are in BK. If they said that we would go in to BK after voting down the TA in July 2010, while the M&R group is critical work it is more easily outsourced. It was most likely the APA's unwillingness to budge that drove us off the cliff in to BK. However, the TWU and APFA played a significant role as well. None of the unions would budge off the idea of full restoration of pay and benefits to pre-2003. Now what? We are in BK, not right after the vote but we are in BK. That does not sound like a lie to me. Now the, "BK is threat, there is more money on the table, and full retro," well those people weren't liars Dave no were they. Sounds like TUL should have listened to Mullings and Hewiit. Even if we did go in to BK anyway you and I would have still pocketed approximately $20K each. Oh well, let's not believe them again and lose another $20K or even worse, our jobs this time listening to the truth master Dave.
One union independent of the AFL-CIO? How did that other craft association the APA do? Hey they got their but kicked by a federal judge and fined massively. Did they win? Uh, no. Better to tie up with other unions within like professions, skills, and industries through alliances. The life span of most AMFA members after their first successful attempt in 1999 is...less than six years it seems. By 2005, they went from about 25,000 to less than 5,000. That is not winning for all that signed up. A 90% failure rate or batting 1 for 10 is weak. AMFA go to bat for us? No way, send him back to the minors.
Look dude I have no dog in this fight and I lost more than any of you have I lost 17 yrs at NWA as a mechanic I was 42 and had to start over..But I lay blame where it belongs and that is with NW. ..AMFA made huge mistakes no doubt but my ultimate demise I can lay at the steps of the IAM cuz if it were not for them and the contempt they had for the mechanic group we would not have thrown them to the street and that is exactly what the TWu is doing in your group. Personally I do not think any union out there representing AMT's will do anything for you at this point. AMFA was the closest thing to a craft union that was out there for us AMT's but too many people want to see that fail. I blame a lot of people for this but basically we mechanics are our own worst enemies. We are such a large group and we have a lot of sloppy un professional people in our ranks for starters. Plus un-licensed people can do our work another problem for us. So ok AMFA made a huge mistake at our/my expense I think AMFA deserves another shot to make it right for the industry. The TWu could not make it happen even in the best of times as the IAm could not do for us in the best of times at NW thats why they got the boot. The TWu if for any reason needs to hit the street even if you wind up back with them later they need a wake up call..I thought the IAm was bad until I saw what the TWu has done to your workgroup. .Kinda funny tho the UPS dispatchers are TWu and make 140k.. Ask them why they cannot do better for you!!
I'm older than most of you so rather than get into an endless argument on a subject we'll probably never agree on, I'll just add a few thoughts based on my personal experience that might help explain why I feel the way I do.
- I believe all unions are accountable to their membership, and to work effectively, that demands an active and well informed local and system membership if it's to serve their best interests. It’s always amazed me how uninformed many members are, which reduces the effectiveness of the organization they belong to.
- Once new Local Officers are elected, they should not begin campaigning for their next election by telling members what they think they would like to hear, but the truth, no matter how difficult that might be. This happens more frequently than you may think.
- When preparing for Negotiations, decide on a negotiating agenda and strategy that’s not based on a wish list as many often are, but on realistic & factual arguments that don’t allow management to delay the process of reaching an agreement. The laundry list approach gives management the excuse they need to not only frustrate our membership, but save millions of dollars by delaying the final agreement.
- Union Conventions are intended to set the course of the organization involved. Local Unions and their elected delegates have a voice and vote at the Conventions so they can express their memberships will, and thereby determine the course of their organization. If members don’t participate, bitching from the sidelines won’t change a thing.
Also, as I said before, South West Airlines AMT’s are expected to be and are all hard workers who earn their keep. Another huge advantage they have is a management group that generally respects its employees, and has a time-tested business plan. While those facts have been proven by the Contract they have, some on this board imply its because of AMFA.
I think this proves my point:
Southwest Airlines flight dispatchers OK new contract
[email protected] 11:31 am on June 11, 2012
Southwest Airlines and the Transport Workers Union said Monday that Southwest’s flight dispatchers at Southwest Airlines have approved a new contract that goes through November 2014.
The unit last approved a contract agreement in 1997 which became amendable in November 2009.
The union said of 188 eligible voters, 180 voted in favor and two voted against the contract, with six not voting. CORRECTED, 2:45 p.m.: The original announcement put the vote at 180-6.
Local president Mike Connor called the deal provides “top of industry wages.” Here are his other comments:
“After all this time, we’re glad we were able to reach an agreement that won overwhelming support from our membership. Our bargaining team worked long and hard – and successfully – to convince management that we needed an industry-leading agreement to recognize the enormous value that dispatchers contribute to the success of this airline.
“Thanks to the efforts of our bargaining team and our members, Southwest Airlines has recognized our licensed and dedicated dispatchers, who are guardians of safety for every flight and share equally in flight safety and legal responsibility with Southwest captains. I look forward to the day when other airlines in the industry show the same regard for their respective dispatchers.”
Matt Hafner, vice president of the Southwest’s operations coordination center, added these comments:
“It took a while to get there, but this new agreement recognizes our Southwest dispatchers for their many years of hard work and productivity.
I also said earlier that I’d heard something about Alaska Airlines and a questionable Pension incident. A simple internet search of AMFA history brought this to light. The reason I add it to my post is to show that not all things are always as they seem, even in an organization some may think so highly of.
Friday, April 17, 2009
Is Your ex-AMFA Leadership worth $500,000?
According to the 2008 LM-2 that AMFA filed with the Department of Labor, AMFA paid Director Olivio V. Delle-Femine $560,394. Wow!
This brings to mind a couple of questions.
What did Mr. Delle-Femine do to deserve five-times the average salary of an employed Mechanic?
At a recent Local 14 meeting it was explained that part of this compensation included an annuity to cover his retirement. What?! Over a half-million dollars for a retirement! At a time when mechanics are losing their pensions in bankruptcy, how the AMFA can justify spending this kind of money on a pension plan for an individual? The AMFA's membership is in steep decline, Northwest Airlines is gone, United Airlines is gone, and yet they feel the need to spend the hard earned dues money for a retired Director of the Association.
The annual dues for membership in the AMFA at Alaska are around $700. Coincidentally, if you took the dues paid by the members at Alaska Airlines for one year, it still wouldn't be enough to pay for the annuity. Since the AMFA's membership is declining, how can they justify this kind of expenditure?
Where in the AMFA constitution does it spell out this perk? How did this happen? But here is a bigger question…
Why aren't you guys pissed about this? The association is under attack and the leadership is spending money like it is going out of style.
Under the heading of Assets and Liabilities, the AMFA lists net assets of $734,022 at the beginning of the reporting period and a total of -$479,433 in net assets at the end of the reporting period. For those of you without a calculator, that's a loss of $1,213,455.
Again I ask, when you are losing this kind of money, how can you justify spending these exorbitant amounts?
The only explanation that I can come up with is that the AMFA leadership is out of touch with its membership.
This is another reason we need change. Change for the better. Change for a real future.
I apologize for the length of my comments and promise to keep my responses brief in the future. These are difficult times and a fractured membership only serves the Company’s interests. Whether that’s the way our members decide to go is up to them.
- I believe all unions are accountable to their membership, and to work effectively, that demands an active and well informed local and system membership if it's to serve their best interests. It’s always amazed me how uninformed many members are, which reduces the effectiveness of the organization they belong to.
- Once new Local Officers are elected, they should not begin campaigning for their next election by telling members what they think they would like to hear, but the truth, no matter how difficult that might be. This happens more frequently than you may think.
- When preparing for Negotiations, decide on a negotiating agenda and strategy that’s not based on a wish list as many often are, but on realistic & factual arguments that don’t allow management to delay the process of reaching an agreement. The laundry list approach gives management the excuse they need to not only frustrate our membership, but save millions of dollars by delaying the final agreement.
- Union Conventions are intended to set the course of the organization involved. Local Unions and their elected delegates have a voice and vote at the Conventions so they can express their memberships will, and thereby determine the course of their organization. If members don’t participate, bitching from the sidelines won’t change a thing.
Also, as I said before, South West Airlines AMT’s are expected to be and are all hard workers who earn their keep. Another huge advantage they have is a management group that generally respects its employees, and has a time-tested business plan. While those facts have been proven by the Contract they have, some on this board imply its because of AMFA.
I think this proves my point:
Southwest Airlines flight dispatchers OK new contract
[email protected] 11:31 am on June 11, 2012
Southwest Airlines and the Transport Workers Union said Monday that Southwest’s flight dispatchers at Southwest Airlines have approved a new contract that goes through November 2014.
The unit last approved a contract agreement in 1997 which became amendable in November 2009.
The union said of 188 eligible voters, 180 voted in favor and two voted against the contract, with six not voting. CORRECTED, 2:45 p.m.: The original announcement put the vote at 180-6.
Local president Mike Connor called the deal provides “top of industry wages.” Here are his other comments:
“After all this time, we’re glad we were able to reach an agreement that won overwhelming support from our membership. Our bargaining team worked long and hard – and successfully – to convince management that we needed an industry-leading agreement to recognize the enormous value that dispatchers contribute to the success of this airline.
“Thanks to the efforts of our bargaining team and our members, Southwest Airlines has recognized our licensed and dedicated dispatchers, who are guardians of safety for every flight and share equally in flight safety and legal responsibility with Southwest captains. I look forward to the day when other airlines in the industry show the same regard for their respective dispatchers.”
Matt Hafner, vice president of the Southwest’s operations coordination center, added these comments:
“It took a while to get there, but this new agreement recognizes our Southwest dispatchers for their many years of hard work and productivity.
I also said earlier that I’d heard something about Alaska Airlines and a questionable Pension incident. A simple internet search of AMFA history brought this to light. The reason I add it to my post is to show that not all things are always as they seem, even in an organization some may think so highly of.
Friday, April 17, 2009
Is Your ex-AMFA Leadership worth $500,000?
According to the 2008 LM-2 that AMFA filed with the Department of Labor, AMFA paid Director Olivio V. Delle-Femine $560,394. Wow!
This brings to mind a couple of questions.
What did Mr. Delle-Femine do to deserve five-times the average salary of an employed Mechanic?
At a recent Local 14 meeting it was explained that part of this compensation included an annuity to cover his retirement. What?! Over a half-million dollars for a retirement! At a time when mechanics are losing their pensions in bankruptcy, how the AMFA can justify spending this kind of money on a pension plan for an individual? The AMFA's membership is in steep decline, Northwest Airlines is gone, United Airlines is gone, and yet they feel the need to spend the hard earned dues money for a retired Director of the Association.
The annual dues for membership in the AMFA at Alaska are around $700. Coincidentally, if you took the dues paid by the members at Alaska Airlines for one year, it still wouldn't be enough to pay for the annuity. Since the AMFA's membership is declining, how can they justify this kind of expenditure?
Where in the AMFA constitution does it spell out this perk? How did this happen? But here is a bigger question…
Why aren't you guys pissed about this? The association is under attack and the leadership is spending money like it is going out of style.
Under the heading of Assets and Liabilities, the AMFA lists net assets of $734,022 at the beginning of the reporting period and a total of -$479,433 in net assets at the end of the reporting period. For those of you without a calculator, that's a loss of $1,213,455.
Again I ask, when you are losing this kind of money, how can you justify spending these exorbitant amounts?
The only explanation that I can come up with is that the AMFA leadership is out of touch with its membership.
This is another reason we need change. Change for the better. Change for a real future.
I apologize for the length of my comments and promise to keep my responses brief in the future. These are difficult times and a fractured membership only serves the Company’s interests. Whether that’s the way our members decide to go is up to them.
What has Jim Little done to earn his salary?...His secretary pulls in 140k thats more than any AMT makes at any airline. Under AMFA my dues was 2.5x my base pay so my dues goes up when pay goes up..Fair enough...The IAm had some kinda crazy formula to this day I couldn't figure out. I lost my career but our first contract under AMFA I got a 13 dollar an hour raise and more than double my pension. We lost and I lost my career because AMFA was not a lapdog union and the NWA and other airlines and even industrial unions like the IAm and TWu and Reamsters all helped to break us but one good thing did happen the industry bar was raised substantially something the IAm, TWu and IBt has NEVER done. Thankfully FX, UPS and SWA kept that bar high. If I had to pick a union out there I still would give AMFA another shot. I damn sure do not like the others out there. Maybe just better I stay non-union as long as they are paying me good which they are...
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,065
Jim has not decimated his membership by losing 90% of his member's jobs. Sure the remaining 10% got to get more money but if the 90% knew when they joined AMFA that they would lose their jobs so AMFA could have bragging rights for top pay and "saving the profession" they would have probably not signed a card. UA was able to ditch AMFA before they finished the overhaul job sacrifices by joining the IBT.
Delle on the other hand profited immensely at the expense of 20,000 plus jobs. Some in BK, some not.
You want to blame the union, blame the union and its leadership but keep score the same way. AMFA lost 90% of its members jobs with most going to outsourcing, the TWU has not done that up until BK forced us to. The TWU has fought to keep jobs including many of the AMP organizers that still have a job today. Good job Jim protecting them from unemployment.
Tex-Mech
Veteran
And in comparison to the TWU LM2 for 2008
A loss of a mere $6,788,651 in 2008.
I fact, since Jim Little took over as president in 2006, the TWU international has dwindled away $23,774,475 in just 6 years. At the current cash burn, a merger with the Teamsters in sure to happen. Oops did I say that.
2006
2011 ASSETS Schedule
Number Start of Reporting Period
(A) End of Reporting Period
( B) 22. Cash $1,780,979 $2,973,050 23. Accounts Receivable 1 $0 24. Loans Receivable 2 $2,117,866 $2,064,566 25. U.S. Treasury Securities $1,916,045 $1,080,549 26. Investments 5 $17,303,009 $12,702,844 27. Fixed Assets 6 $8,193,935 $8,016,639 28. Other Assets 7 $141,851 $151,461 29. TOTAL ASSETS $31,453,685 $26,989,109
