Future Tulsa 514 President Dan Mitchell Removed From Office

[Tex-Mech]

I understand the negotiations with the Mediator/Judge ended with no progress so I thought its time for me to add my views.


There are several things that are very apparent to me. It’s obvious some believe AMFA is the only answer to achieving the highest wages, benefits, and security, no matter the carrier or state of the industry. However, there are those who don’t believe that and I’m one of them. When you factor in their present and past attitude toward sacrificing overhaul work in order to benefit their Line membership, I believe it would have an inevitable and predictable negative effect on the future of our overhaul workforce.

Example: “Southwest Airlines, the nation's leading discount carrier flying only domestic routes, has begun heavy maintenance of some of its Boeing 737 fleet in El Salvador, company executives said Thursday. Under agreements with its Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), Southwest on Wednesday flew its first 737 to Aeroman, an El Salvador-based maintenance, repair and overhaul facility”.

Most recent AMFA agreement and Southwest Airlines is not in Bankruptcy.

While the pro-AMFA supporters keep claiming our negotiations are tainted by the TWU’s efforts to save overhaul jobs whatever the cost, don’t be mislead as to their underlying motive. It’s been AMFA’s bargaining chip in past and recent negotiations, and they would like to see it on this property.

What they won’t admit is that without exception, the membership of every single union that worked through a bankruptcy has had to pay a high price. It didn’t matter who represented the people, whether it was the IAM, IBT, TWU or AMFA. Pilot and Flight Attendant unions also shared the pain. If there‘s any evidence to the contrary I’ve never seen it.

We’ve also reached the point that to simply shrug off the bankruptcy process as some temporary distraction is not being honest with the members or ourselves. Ironically, we still have individuals who seem to believe that all we have to do is say NO, and our future is secure. Or in the alternative, just hold on, and following a contract revocation should that happen, the negotiating environment will somehow miraculously change. It hasn’t happened yet, but If you believe in fairy tales that’s a good place to start. We also know that outsourcing remains a primary target for cost cutting in the industry. To think otherwise is to ignore reality. How we accomplish that while concurrently protecting the overhaul personnel to the extent possible will determine how successful these negotiations really are.

We are of necessity relying on the members of the Negotiating Committee who have far more information and insight into the state of the carrier than we do. We expect them to act responsibly and in the best interests of our entire system membership, not just the chosen few. Since the majority of our members have followed their advice, the decisions they make will either produce the results they keep implying await us, or jeopardize our careers and family’s future.

These are difficult times and we don’t need gamblers rolling the dice when the stakes are this high, nor do we need the distraction of the whiners in our ranks. The Constitution and Convention are the appropriate vehicles for the changes some claim they desire, use them. That’s what they’re for.

Yawn....

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I'd like to know about the kangaroo court outcome and what the chargers were... to stay on topic.

On the other hand,

"These are difficult times and we don’t need gamblers rolling the dice when the stakes are this high, nor do we need the distraction of the whiners in our ranks. The Constitution and Convention are the appropriate vehicles for the changes some claim they desire, use them. That’s what they’re for."

Hey, realityck. The twu convention is like watching a convention during Stalin's rein or better yet when Saddam Hussein was still kicking sand. The twu constitution? Really? Stay behind your alias after writing that joke. You say rolling the dice? Okay, I'll roll the dice because ANYTHING is better than allowing the twu to continue with their appointed, unaccountable, undemocratic practices. Here's a question for you to go and find an answer for from your handler... if we take more concessions will bobby gless, don videtich, john conley and jim little also take concessions? Straight yes or no answer from your handlers will suffice.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I'd like to know about the kangaroo court outcome and what the chargers were... to stay on topic.

On the other hand,

"These are difficult times and we don’t need gamblers rolling the dice when the stakes are this high, nor do we need the distraction of the whiners in our ranks. The Constitution and Convention are the appropriate vehicles for the changes some claim they desire, use them. That’s what they’re for."

Hey, realityck. The twu convention is like watching a convention during Stalin's rein or better yet when Saddam Hussein was still kicking sand. The twu constitution? Really? Stay behind your alias after writing that joke. You say rolling the dice? Okay, I'll roll the dice because ANYTHING is better than allowing the twu to continue with their appointed, unaccountable, undemocratic practices. Here's a question for you to go and find an answer for from your handler... if we take more concessions will bobby gless, don videtich, john conley and jim little also take concessions? Straight yes or no answer from your handlers will suffice.

As long as the thread has been on this board, I have yet to see what Dan Mitchell did to get the comrades' panties in a wad - I'd like to know myself.

 

[BigMac]

Rumor has it he held a small gathering telling other clerks he was voting no.
Rumor also has it he knew of Hewitt's international plans and Hewitt's initiation was to sell us the internationals yes video. Mitchell didn't agree and was sacked.

 

[Bob Owens]

Pure BS and no substance as usual.

A 100% did not lose their careers. Bob, UPS and WN outsource more work than AA ever has. Is that what your goal is? To outsource 90% of the work so you can say that you get paid the best? That's pathetic and selfish. We can all get damn good wages and benefits, in fact we did in the July 2010 TA. Where is that money that was on the table? BK was just a threat right? Liar.

There you go again, spin, spin spin. How much did UPS and WN outsource when we made as much as UPS and more than SWA? Did they increase their outsourcing to keep wages steady with inflation? Are their headcounts now higher or lower than they were in 2001? The fact is they didnt lay off anyone to keep their wages and they increased or maintained their headcount. We slashed pay and heads.

You call me a Liar without producing any evidence, I call you a company stooge because you choose to hide behind an alias and do their bidding, saying that we should be as productive as SWA if we want to be paid like SWA. Are you claiming that if someone reads and takes your advice and works like they do at SWA (who says we dont?) that the company will pay him $44/hr? You know thats not true. You come and claim that we should commoditize our labor in order to keep the number of people working here high even though you know that Attrition would likely remove a large percentage of the heads that would be lost to outsourcing. You know that our workforce is old and they need to get young blood in here. You know that M&R went down by around 5000 heads since 2001 yet we have new hires in the system and UAL offered $75k so they could clear their recall lists and bring in New blood.

And the thousands that work in overhaul and the line that would not be working under the WN and UPS CBAs make $33/hour more. And your point is that you want thousands out of work so you can have a fatter wallet. Tell the truth Bob, that's always been your goal. Instead it backfired on you, now we are all about to get shafted.

When we came into this industry layoffs were seasonal, I've been there, I never thought that everyone should lower their wages so I would not get laid off, I expected them to keep it a job worth coming back to and hoped that one day I would have enough seniority to not get laid off. Thats why we have seniority and pushed for unlimited recall rights.

Ok we have more people working but we make much less. I thought the slogan was "Strength in numbers"? Should we be willing to cut our pay in half so they can go out and try and hire 10,000 more mechanics so we could have 20,000 mechanics? My guess is according to you yes because obviously you dont work under the terms you advocate, thats why you hide behind an alias.

Every year at least 500 mechanics retire, die or quit. Since 2001 we have lost around 6000 guys, by 2017 even without an Early Out AA will likely lose at least 3000 mechanics. Should we all agree to work for less in order to maintain that 10,000 number which can only be maintained by back filling with New Hires? That may be great for the Union, constant dues flow and nice for the New hires but its not so good for those of us who have to work under the terms and are too old to move on to another job like Lineguy43 did (who has no regrets on not giving the company everything they want in exchange for the promise of maintaining headcount).



I guess you were OK with giving up a week of Vacation, or was it that you did not want to bring it up because giving up a week of vacation allowed them to layoff 300 heads and still have the same amount of hours available?

Tell us Overspeed, if you wont fight for wages and benefits that keep us among our peers what would you fight for?

 

[Buck]

Dan Mitchell apparently was accused of Conduct Unbecoming a Union Goon.

Allegedly a copy of the Hewitt international came into his possession and it was said that Dan made this document available to those who made the Jim Little/Hewitt video.

 

[Rogallo]

Dan Mitchell apparently was accused of Conduct Unbecoming a Union Goon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpztPyZ5TH0&feature=related

 

[Realityck]

Hey, realityck. The twu convention is like watching a convention during Stalin's rein or better yet when Saddam Hussein was still kicking sand. The twu constitution? Really? Stay behind your alias after writing that joke. You say rolling the dice? Okay, I'll roll the dice because ANYTHING is better than allowing the twu to continue with their appointed, unaccountable, undemocratic practices. Here's a question for you to go and find an answer for from your handler... if we take more concessions will bobby gless, don videtich, john conley and jim little also take concessions? Straight yes or no answer from your handlers will suffice.


Well Kenny, you really need to lay off whatever you’re on. I’m an AMT just like you with a hell of a lot more years on the floor behind me. Also, I don’t and never will have a handler as you call it. That may be your claim to fame, but it’s not mine.

The fact I disagree with you is my right and based entirely on my personal experience with AMFA starting with Delle Femine, and continuing up to the present time.

You criticize the Convention and while you may have attended one (just a guess) if you did you must not have had your personal agenda passed. What happened, not enough support?

I don’t have an answer for your question regarding the sharing of concessions, but I do have a suggestion. If you spent as much time & effort getting yourself elected to office in your Local Union as you do bitching about the TWU, you could go to the next Convention and work to make the changes you believe we need. Of course it would first require the support of your fellow AMT’s to get elected, which may be your real problem.

 

[TWU informer]

I don’t have an answer for your question regarding the sharing of concessions, but I do have a suggestion. If you spent as much time & effort getting yourself elected to office in your Local Union as you do bitching about the TWU, you could go to the next Convention and work to make the changes you believe we need. Of course it would first require the support of your fellow AMT’s to get elected, which may be your real problem.

You obvioulsy have never taken the advice to read the minutes of the TWU Constitutional Conventions of 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2009.

For if you had read them, you would not be so sure of the simpleton view of changing the TWU you opine. I used to spew the same pro TWU trash, until I was challenged to read and think for myself.

All that would happen is another appointment for votes and another individual making $200K per year.

Educate yourself and stop the fantasy belief.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Hey, realityck. The twu convention is like watching a convention during Stalin's rein or better yet when Saddam Hussein was still kicking sand. The twu constitution? Really? Stay behind your alias after writing that joke. You say rolling the dice? Okay, I'll roll the dice because ANYTHING is better than allowing the twu to continue with their appointed, unaccountable, undemocratic practices. Here's a question for you to go and find an answer for from your handler... if we take more concessions will bobby gless, don videtich, john conley and jim little also take concessions? Straight yes or no answer from your handlers will suffice.


Well Kenny, you really need to lay off whatever you’re on. I’m an AMT just like you with a hell of a lot more years on the floor behind me. Also, I don’t and never will have a handler as you call it. That may be your claim to fame, but it’s not mine.

The fact I disagree with you is my right and based entirely on my personal experience with AMFA starting with Delle Femine, and continuing up to the present time.

You criticize the Convention and while you may have attended one (just a guess) if you did you must not have had your personal agenda passed. What happened, not enough support?

I don’t have an answer for your question regarding the sharing of concessions, but I do have a suggestion. If you spent as much time & effort getting yourself elected to office in your Local Union as you do bitching about the TWU, you could go to the next Convention and work to make the changes you believe we need. Of course it would first require the support of your fellow AMT’s to get elected, which may be your real problem.

It's been said that democracy is not a spectator sport, yet I continually see people like you promoting procedures within a supposed democratic organization that makes it such - why is that?

All attempts at real "direct democracy" have, in practice, failed because people have continually found "better" things to do with their time than vote their minds and keep the process going. Instead, they voted to allow "delegates" to vote for them. After a time, those delegates are not voting for the interests of their constituencies but to garner themselves politicial consideration, in this case, international appointments as with the twu.

Delegates, once upon a time, were necessary to the process of voting. When this country was created, Al Gore hadn't been born to invent the internet and communications were rather slow. It was impractical to have a direct democracy and delegates or representatives were used to communicate the wishes of those being governed.

There's no excuse for what's happening within the twu now - we aren't talking about millions of people, rather less than 50,000. The well insulated individuals at the union's helm know their gravy trains would be terminated in rather short order if those represented actually had a direct say in their leadership.

I have no preference in representation, but if we're going to have it, let it be responsive and open - the exact opposite of what we have now.

 

[Frank Szabo]

You obvioulsy have never taken the advice to read the minutes of the TWU Constitutional Conventions of 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2009.

For if you had read them, you would not be so sure of the simpleton view of changing the TWU you opine. I used to spew the same pro TWU trash, until I was challenged to read and think for myself.

All that would happen is another appointment for votes and another individual making $200K per year.

Educate yourself and stop the fantasy belief.

Dave, it's difficult to argue with those New York boys and besides, they make crappy salsa.

 

[Realityck]

Your statements make absolutely no sense.

Szabo:

“All attempts at real "direct democracy" have, in practice, failed because people have continually found "better" things to do with their time than vote their minds and keep the process going. Instead, they voted to allow "delegates" to vote for them. After a time, those delegates are not voting for the interests of their constituencies but to garner themselves political consideration, in this case, international appointments as with the twu.”

Are you kidding? With Delegates consisting of Local Union Officers and Delegates elected off the floor from the various Local’s Membership, and overall numbering in the hundreds, you say they’re seeking (trading their votes for) International appointments? You not only have a very low perception of the integrity of your fellow members and officers, but the suggestion that there are hundreds of International Jobs being traded for votes at the Convention is idiotic.


Horton Hears a Who:

“You obvioulsy have never taken the advice to read the minutes of the TWU Constitutional Conventions of 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2009.

For if you had read them, you would not be so sure of the simpleton view of changing the TWU you opine. I used to spew the same pro TWU trash, until I was challenged to read and think for myself”

I became a shop steward approximately 5 years after I hired on with American. After that I did read most, not all, of the Convention minutes you mentioned. Your statement “All that would happen is another appointment for votes and another individual making $200K per year” defies logic.

With Convention Delegates that number in the hundreds that would make for one hell of a lot of International Officers & Representatives. To follow your thinking, the Convention would consist of only actual (or potential) International Officers & International Representatives? You don’t really believe your own BS do you???

With supporters like you, its no wonder the AMFA doesn’t know what it’s talking about!

 

[Buck]

Realityck:

You are rather naive....

naive [nah-eev]

—adjective

1. having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.

2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.

3. having or marked by a simple, unaffectedly direct style reflecting little or no formal training or technique: valuable naive 19th-century American portrait paintings.

4. not having previously been the subject of a scientific experiment, as an animal.

 

[Realityck]

Realityck:

You are rather naive....

naive [nah-eev]

—adjective

1. having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.

2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.

3. having or marked by a simple, unaffectedly direct style reflecting little or no formal training or technique: valuable naive 19th-century American portrait paintings.

4. not having previously been the subject of a scientific experiment, as an animal.

Beats the hell out of being just plain stupid like you!

 

[enough already]

Deleted