Future Tulsa 514 President Dan Mitchell Removed From Office

Buck said:
Unions being Socialistic by nature? Are you referring to those elitist at the International who consistently obtain raises for themselves and do not have to face the cuts that the membership does? Your flawed view of unionism, whereby workers unite across the globe is flawed. You failed to acknowledge my reference of the M-F, 8-5 shift and that the rest of the membership has to adjust their schedules for their families. I understand your form of unionism, more jobs no matter the cost and you believe that that can be controlled by political forced support of one of the flawed parties that claim to represent the people of this country. Your form of unionism is anti-American. To make it simple for you, King George, stop taxing me without representing me. Why must the people in your vision of unionism remain as the working class without any hope to better themselves. The membership has grown tired of the status quo ( in statu quo res erant ante bellum ).

Stability? Where has there been stability in the relationship of the company and the TWU? Since 1983 the membership has been placed in a perpetual down spiral in regards to their compensation and benefits, unless an outside force has acted in it's own behalf and forced the parties to adjust their agenda to keep people from attempting to replace the TWU.

The WN model is an excuse the company uses to propagate fear in the TWU. The outsourcing phase has been implemented by the rest of the carriers and now it is upon American Airlines. WN is slowly bringing work back in house while the the company is playing catch up with that business model and the TWU still maintains that the company requires more employees to do the same work that WN accomplishes with less employees at the top of the compensatory scale including a deregulated benefits package. WN is bringing in their fourth heavy line and staffing it at approximately 90 employees including QA. Deregulation of the industry is the only fact that both the company and union have little or no control over. The non-union side of the equation deregulated and the old style form of unionism did not. Now that deregulation is being forced upon unionism. The company is moving in a direction it probably should have moved in in 2003.

Has anyone that is advocating the replacement of the TWU ever stated a time frame for such a move in relation to the bankruptcy?

I am not looking for someone to blame. I blame myself first for not acting sooner and I blame the company for the ineptness and I blame the TWU for living in fear. No I stopped looking long ago .
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My flawed view on unionism? You are pushing a form of elitism and passing it off as unionism. You say you want a higher average wage but you are willing to cast off jobs, that due to the new regulatory environment, are no longer considered high skill jobs. In fact in actuality, the labor agreement requires many of the existing jobs to be A&P jobs, not the FARs. So the industrial unions you despise very much kept those jobs in-house and paid at higher levels than were required by law. How do I know this? If the jobs were required to be A&P jobs than why would the be allowed to become non-A&P jobs at MROs? Because of the FARs, so the IAM, IBT, and TWU managed to keep those jobs in-house per the CBAs that were in place. Now you are saying that is un-American. You wrap yourself in the flag and that is your armor. Sorry buddy, but the emperor has no clothes.

The jobs for money argument is polarizing but when you peel back the layers of BS, guess what? More BS. When you say that the TWU swapped jobs for money many point to OSM/SRPs and how the other guys don't have them and never did. Not true. UA, DL, and CO have had them for years under other names. DL has now over 1,500 unlicensed mechanics working in DL Tech Ops which is mainly an engine and component shop. We have that many now but they are spread out over AO, PALM, TAESL, and CRO. The percentage is much lower at AA. But we need to peel back another layer of BS, the claim that the other guys like WN, UPS, FDX, US, and jetBlue do not have OSM/SRPs. That's true but that's because they just outsourced the jobs to even lower paid positions at MROs. So yes you can say that they have a higher average wage but when just shift the lower paid jobs to an outside vendor then you didn't raise the average wage, you did some sleight of hand with the math so you could claim the higher average wage number.

Relegating a group of people to lower wages so you can profit at any cost. That is the great American ideal in your view. Was this country not the strongest economically when the evil industrial unions protected jobs in manufacturing and many other industries? Yes. How did corporate profits explode and senior management rake in huge raises and bonuses? By outsourcing those high paid union jobs overseas or to non-union companies to make themselves richer. Now you are advocating a change in union strategy that is exactly like what corporate America did, outsource union jobs to make the remaining people richer.

Your unionism is more like elitism. As long as you are in that elite group you will be happy, but what happens when they come for you? I'm sure you will accept your job being outsourced so that the rest that stay will not have their pay compromised. It's all about the "craft" right?
 
Overspeed said:
My flawed view on unionism? You are pushing a form of elitism and passing it off as unionism. You say you want a higher average wage but you are willing to cast off jobs, that due to the new regulatory environment, are no longer considered high skill jobs. In fact in actuality, the labor agreement requires many of the existing jobs to be A&P jobs, not the FARs. So the industrial unions you despise very much kept those jobs in-house and paid at higher levels than were required by law. How do I know this? If the jobs were required to be A&P jobs than why would the be allowed to become non-A&P jobs at MROs? Because of the FARs, so the IAM, IBT, and TWU managed to keep those jobs in-house per the CBAs that were in place. Now you are saying that is un-American. You wrap yourself in the flag and that is your armor. Sorry buddy, but the emperor has no clothes.

The jobs for money argument is polarizing but when you peel back the layers of BS, guess what? More BS. When you say that the TWU swapped jobs for money many point to OSM/SRPs and how the other guys don't have them and never did. Not true. UA, DL, and CO have had them for years under other names. DL has now over 1,500 unlicensed mechanics working in DL Tech Ops which is mainly an engine and component shop. We have that many now but they are spread out over AO, PALM, TAESL, and CRO. The percentage is much lower at AA. But we need to peel back another layer of BS, the claim that the other guys like WN, UPS, FDX, US, and jetBlue do not have OSM/SRPs. That's true but that's because they just outsourced the jobs to even lower paid positions at MROs. So yes you can say that they have a higher average wage but when just shift the lower paid jobs to an outside vendor then you didn't raise the average wage, you did some sleight of hand with the math so you could claim the higher average wage number.

Relegating a group of people to lower wages so you can profit at any cost. That is the great American ideal in your view. Was this country not the strongest economically when the evil industrial unions protected jobs in manufacturing and many other industries? Yes. How did corporate profits explode and senior management rake in huge raises and bonuses? By outsourcing those high paid union jobs overseas or to non-union companies to make themselves richer. Now you are advocating a change in union strategy that is exactly like what corporate America did, outsource union jobs to make the remaining people richer.

Your unionism is more like elitism. As long as you are in that elite group you will be happy, but what happens when they come for you? I'm sure you will accept your job being outsourced so that the rest that stay will not have their pay compromised. It's all about the "craft" right?
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Elitism? That old chestnut. You are making us all feel ashamed for wanting our pay and benefits restored to at least the industry average of A&Ps at other carriers. It would be nice if the company was more benevolent, and paid the unlicensed workers more; however, that is not the case. The problem we have is the TWU coming in, and deciding for us how the TWU slice of communist pie is divided up - always at the expense of the AMT. It took a while; however, now even the Tulsa people are seeing the TWU for what it really is. The AMFA card drive is going strong there, and the line is a slam dunk - that will go close to 100%. Bye bye TWU.....
 
Vortilon said:
Elitism? That old chestnut. You are making us all feel ashamed for wanting our pay and benefits restored to at least the industry average of A&Ps at other carriers. It would be nice if the company was more benevolent, and paid the unlicensed workers more; however, that is not the case. The problem we have is the TWU coming in, and deciding for us how the TWU slice of communist pie is divided up - always at the expense of the AMT. It took a while; however, now even the Tulsa people are seeing the TWU for what it really is. The AMFA card drive is going strong there, and the line is a slam dunk - that will go close to 100%. Bye bye TWU.....
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... not to mention trying to induce guilt for having the attitude one should be compensated for their time and trouble of either taking the time to learn a trade or going to school for same. That's exactly what the so-called "management" twits expect (even though their specialty seems to be running the company into the ground). Why shouldn't those with skills be compensated for them?

I won't get into naming the jobs but there are quite a few at AA that really don't require training past what would be sufficient to assemble Whoppers at Burger King - WTF? $20 per hour +? Those jobs never were intended to be careers but a stepping stone to higher paid position after requirements/training were met to advance.

"Hey Comrade - I know I didn't work for it but gimme half of the stuff you worked for".

I think not.

Venit Eam.
 
Overspeed said:
DL has now over 1,500 unlicensed mechanics working in DL Tech Ops which is mainly an engine and component shop. We have that many now but they are spread out over AO, PALM, TAESL, and CRO. The percentage is much lower at AA. But we need to peel back another layer of BS, the claim that the other guys like WN, UPS, FDX, US, and jetBlue do not have OSM/SRPs.
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There are no OSM'S In TAESL. There are in the paint and blast building.

NO Real Union would ever bring back anything like the LBO that TWU did. You and your so called Union are pathetic.

GO AMFA!!!!!!!!
 
Vortilon said:
Elitism? That old chestnut. You are making us all feel ashamed for wanting our pay and benefits restored to at least the industry average of A&Ps at other carriers. It would be nice if the company was more benevolent, and paid the unlicensed workers more; however, that is not the case. The problem we have is the TWU coming in, and deciding for us how the TWU slice of communist pie is divided up - always at the expense of the AMT. It took a while; however, now even the Tulsa people are seeing the TWU for what it really is. The AMFA card drive is going strong there, and the line is a slam dunk - that will go close to 100%. Bye bye TWU.....
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Ashamed? Not at all. Want to get paid like WN, then be as productive as them. Same thing with UPS and FDX.

Say there is $1B in S&B to be divided up. Would it not be better to work more productively, use fewer people, and more money for each of us? Don't outsource.

AMFA is not going to fix AA's inept management team.
 
I believe that if the Union conducts itself in a professional manner and holds itself and its members accountable then the Company has to step up to the plate and conduct itself likewise. We certainly see no accountability on both sides with the Company/TWU in bed together, either side is willing to make anyone toe the line and produce a product we can all be proud of (A number airline) where the public is happy to fly on AA. We haven't seen this since Bob Crandall left, sure he was hard but he made sure everyone was accountable for their actions. AMFA is a Craft Union we all can be proud of and are willing to support it and our employer!
 
Overspeed

I do not have a problem with the TWU representing everyone and anyone that wants them to.

Why should the mechanics be forced to have the TWU as there representative when through a Democratic process,a choice can be made?

If the other titles want industrial unionism, who are we to stand in their way. If the mechanics want craft unionism who are we to stand in their way?
 
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  • #45
I heard Tulsa Prez was handed a petition by the Stores crew asking that Dan "the Man" be re-instated? Also heard that Dan's replacement was upset because there was no popcorn in the hotel lobby in Dallas.
 
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