Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

Interesting how things have changed. Shoe is on the other foot now. Look what West is bringing to the merger. Down to one hub, deep in competition with Southwest and pilots on furlough. Still, you put all your eggs in a basket with the Nic. What if you lose? It could happen. BTW, no one has ever seriously suggested that the West be stapled.

It's one airline, not two. The fool that posted we are not merged is just that, a fool.

You know darn well why the west still has furloughed pilots, the east purposely avoided a contract to keep the pilot groups separate. From a scheduling standpoint, it makes sense to have more pilots based out east and they fly for bankruptcy wages to boot.

DOH is a staple, it's in USAPA's constitution, look it up.

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

Interesting how things have changed. Shoe is on the other foot now. Look what West is bringing to the merger. Down to one hub, deep in competition with Southwest and pilots on furlough. Still, you put all your eggs in a basket with the Nic. What if you lose? It could happen. BTW, no one has ever seriously suggested that the West be stapled.

It's nice to see you admit that in the first merger the east grabed the whole cake and walked off. Too bad the cake had a secret filing of LOA 93.

Bean

 

[nycbusdriver]

I must have missed where USAPA removed DOH from the constitution. If USAPA used the Nic and then offered the APA relative with fences and credit for all of their widebodies, then yes, there probably would be no need for arbitration. Remember the APA pilots can read and they're well aware that the courts warned you about deviating from the NIC. They also are smart enough to know that the only reason you're so fired up and ready to illegaly steal seniority is that you and your union won't be around to sue. How dumb do you think the APA is?

Bean

I don't think the APA is dumb at all. I think they are infinitely smarter than Marty and his "knights." DOH with restrictions and fences. They are smart enough to know that, properly done, they have no worries from the east. And the west threat of DFR is irrelevant since unions are given wide latitude and DOH is historically within that scope.

Lawsuit, shmawsuit. No one cares about you "dire wolves" or your incompetent lawyer anymore.

Don't you GET IT YET?

 

[mrbreeze]

Got to disagree. Don Breeger was a ex-Eastern Trump Shuttle pilot. His Trump DOH would have been sometime in the 1990s, since the Trump operating certificate didn't even exist until then. The date is his Eastern DOH. That merger was a US Air merger, not a Piedmont merger. And the Trump pilots did not seek Eastern DOH in the arbitration...done by Nicolau, no less!

My thoughts exactly when I saw Clear's grab at that straw.
breeze

 

[A320 Driver]

It's nice to see you admit that in the first merger the east grabed the whole cake and walked off. Too bad the cake had a secret filing of LOA 93.

Bean

What whole cake? You got PHX...that's what you wanted. And it's all yours! I wish just one West pilot would admit that what you really want is the attrition, the upgrades and the wide bodies East brought to the party. That's what all this is about isn't it??? If it was just PHX, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but since you "acquired" us and "saved" us you feel every thing of value should be laid at your feet.

 

[cleardirect]

Perhaps the arbitrators have met Nicolau before and think he's a mindless buffoon of an old man?

(You're really counting on there being an arbitration to make your dream come true. What if it doesn't go that far?)




Yup. Of course. Noted legal scholar Peter Pan once said: "Dreams do come true, if only you wish hard enough."

And, in agreement, law school Dean Glinda, Good Witch of the EAST, said: "Click your heels together three times."

Yup. The east pilots are toast. No bout a doubt it!

Why not. I have heard east pilots say that Nicolau knew he got the Trump list wrong so he owed the east pilots.


Yes there will be an arbitration. The APA does not want the liability of deciding seniority. usapa is boxed into DOH when that fails they have nowhere to go.

The MOU prevents usapa from proposing a single DOH list. So yes arbitration.

I seriously doubt that the other arbitrators think Nicolau is a buffoon. That would be just a few east that did not like the result.

 

[traderjake]

DOH with restrictions and fences. They are smart enough to know that, properly done, they have no worries from the east.

My guess is they're smart enough not to make our NB Captains senior to their WB Captains.

With or without fences.

 

[cleardirect]

Doh with fences to protect what each side(3 sides) brings to the table is a very strong possibility(50%). Clear will keep his or her relative position and PHX domicile career expectations.

In order to make your argument work. To keep what we brought. The west would have to get back 250 pilots and 24 aircraft. Upgrade about 80 pilots. In order for the east top keep what you brought you would have to shrink about 250 pilots. Moving all of you backwards. Furlough as bunch. Lose all of the 190 flying and hand over a few 330 and a 757.

Are you going to keep repeating stupid crap or understand what you are really saying?

 

[cleardirect]

Interesting how things have changed. Shoe is on the other foot now. Look what West is bringing to the merger. Down to one hub, deep in competition with Southwest and pilots on furlough. Still, you put all your eggs in a basket with the Nic. What if you lose? It could happen. BTW, no one has ever seriously suggested that the West be stapled.

Ummm! We are all Us AIrways pilots dumb a$$. Guess what when we go in front of an arbitrator we ALL have WB aircraft. The west is not down to just one hub. WE have 4 hubs. PHX,PHL,CLT and DCA.

Try reading the MOU. It talks about US Airways pilots and APA pilots.

BTW using DOH essentially does staple west pilots. Stop with the BS.

 

[Beancounter]

I don't think the APA is dumb at all. I think they are infinitely smarter than Marty and his "knights." DOH with restrictions and fences. They are smart enough to know that, properly done, they have no worries from the east. And the west threat of DFR is irrelevant since unions are given wide latitude and DOH is historically within that scope.

Lawsuit, shmawsuit. No one cares about you "dire wolves" or your incompetent lawyer anymore.

Don't you GET IT YET?

When dealing with similar airlines a long time ago DOH may have worked. AWA and US were not similar. I could be wrong, but I just don't see your DOH windfall happening, sorry.

Bean

 

[cleardirect]

My thoughts exactly when I saw Clear's grab at that straw.
breeze

Are you seriously still trying to say that the east list is DOH?

That is not even debatable. It is not I posted a section of your list showing that it is not DOH.

 

[mrbreeze]

Ummm! We are all Us AIrways pilots dumb a$$. Guess what when we go in front of an arbitrator we ALL have WB aircraft. The west is not down to just one hub. WE have 4 hubs. PHX,PHL,CLT and DCA.

Try reading the MOU. It talks about US Airways pilots and APA pilots.

BTW using DOH essentially does staple west pilots. Stop with the BS.

Good thing you are still a very young man.....as you get older, your system will not be able to handle these melt downs everyday. Living with the truth is the smooth ride...you should try it sometime.
breeze

 

[Beancounter]

What whole cake? You got PHX...that's what you wanted. And it's all yours! I wish just one West pilot would admit that what you really want is the attrition, the upgrades and the wide bodies East brought to the party. That's what all this is about isn't it??? If it was just PHX, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but since you "acquired" us and "saved" us you feel every thing of value should be laid at your feet.

Why admit that, if it's not true? We saved each other. As for what I want? Let's see, prior to the merger we were hiring 20/month, profitable, and had new aircraft arriving, I'd accept that. Gee, the company is profitable, but where is the 20 new hires a month and new growth aircraft? Oh yeah the east is hoarding it all to themselves. Didn't your mommy ever teach you about sharing with your brothers?

Bean

 

[mrbreeze]

Are you seriously still trying to say that the east list is DOH?

That is not even debatable. It is not I posted a section of your list showing that it is not DOH.

Ahh, your ignorance of how history works is showing through. You don't have a clue, you are so hung up on the NIC that the truth flows right past your head.
breeze

 

[Beancounter]

Good thing you are still a very young man.....as you get older, your system will not be able to handle these melt downs everyday. Living with the truth is the smooth ride...you should try it sometime.
breeze

Grab a mirror then and tell that to yourself, since DOH is in fact, a staple job. None on the west are young anymore. I WAS one of the youngins and I just turned 40, remember we've been at this for a while.

Bean