Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Graceson]

So far no one else has complained.

Complained, yes. But ripeness must come first.

 

[Phoenix]

...
"Failing that, the letters say the West will seek a TRO putting the entire process on hold."...

That is the most ridiculous "threat" I have ever read. The West Class (which is bound by Silver, and basiclly told to sit in the corner and STFU during negotiations), is now threatening to run into court and seek a TRO... sigggghhh. I am too exhausted to laugh anymore.

I would like to see Judge Judy take this one.

 

[CallawayGolf]

You know what CG? You've gotten me thinking. The TA contains the min fleet protections and the MOU changed them. That really harms me and takes away my rights, by gosh. I think I will form a LLC, get my friends to throw in some cash and get a lawyer to write strongly worded letters to have that changed and if not then we will file a TRO! Yeah, oh wait, we voted for that. Sorry, carry on.

The MOU ratified the change by a vote of the MIGs so that's a pretty tough case to make. What does the ratified MOU say about the SLI? Does AA's seniority list change as a result of this MOU? If not, why would USAPA's list (as called for in the previous CBA/TA) change but not AA's?

 

[dca319]

Complained, yes. But ripeness must come first.

According to AoL it has. We'll found out relatively quickly.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

When will you grasp the fact that the company can be held liable if they Aid or Abette your Union's DFR? That FACT has never been disputed and is crystal clear. Just because your union could care less about liability doesn't mean the company can. USAPA can afford to go under because of this because it's the ONLY reason for USAPA's existance. The company is a going concern that lives in the real world. USAPA....not so much.

The Company has an agreement with you and I (and all of APA and USAPA) that they will remain NEUTRAL in the upcoming process. We are under no obligation to use the NIC. We completely understand the threat of a DFR exists. The Company will be held to a reasonable standard once the list is ripe. But almost ALL the West class that were members supported the MOU. Thanks for basically letting the Company off the hook. They are contractually "neutral" and you are going to be integrated according to a process you approved of. Like I have said, the Company was just handed a get out of jail free card...by the West class.

Greeter

 

[dca319]

"Go f yourself you POS scab supporting JO!"

You are such a professional. Smart too. Hope you end up in rehab after the NIC vanishes permanently.

And if it doesn't disappear? Where will you end up? So is the Nicolau dead or still vanishing?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The JNC pullout was a stupid move. We've never recovered. Trust was irrevocably breached. I believe that is why no one from the west was interested in any overtures from the east once it insisted on using 'muscle' to achieve it's objectives. I suppose a white flag is an option, but most people just don't work that way.

 

[Graceson]

According to AoL it has. We'll found out relatively quickly.

It will be good to finally have this play out to a resolution.

Caution is advised, though, to let the process play out to a comprehensive conclusion. The risk is that harm is claimed before without compelling argument. "It's not the Nic" may not, on its own merit, be compelling, and in fact exhaust the court's patience if lacking in foundation. Worse, it will add negative prejudice a cause already established in a negative trend frivolous legal initives. Patience is strength and leverage.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Do you include the NMB parking negotiations in your assement of the reason why USAPA's strategy hasn't been given a chance to work?

Yes. It became abundantly clear to the mediator that the process was going nowhere because the company didn't wish to move while the courts pondered.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just as there is no point in the company negotiating a JCBA with usapa via mediated NMB talks, there is no point in wasting everyones time negotiating a SLI that will get tossed.

There you go again. Ignoring what the Ninth said specifically about a combined list. It HAS to be in place before you can claim ripeness since you can't claim you're being disadvantaged without knowing the specifics of the disadvantage. Do you really think the Ninth want to have to tell that to Marty again?

No judge is going to issue a TRO to stop a process that the Ninth said had to be completed before there is an issue.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yes. It became abundantly clear to the mediator that the process was going nowhere because the company didn't wish to move while the courts pondered.

Din't wish to because of an immanent lawsuit for colluding with USAPA to violate the transition agreement. Absolutely.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Let me get this straight....

You are blaming others for "sidetracking the process"?

Go f yourself you POS scab supporting JO!

Not "others." YOU, you moron and your f-ing moron lawyer. That's who I am blaming.

 

[nycbusdriver]

When will you grasp the fact that the company can be held liable if they Aid or Abette your Union's DFR? That FACT has never been disputed and is crystal clear. Just because your union could care less about liability doesn't mean the company can. USAPA can afford to go under because of this because it's the ONLY reason for USAPA's existance. The company is a going concern that lives in the real world. USAPA....not so much.

It's crystal clear in your own cloudy dementia, maybe. In the eyes of the law, not so much.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Din't wish to because of an immanent lawsuit for colluding with USAPA to violate the transition agreement. Absolutely.

You AoL guys are true legends in your own demented minds.

Do you think it was the "dire wolves" that got Parker nervous?

 

[cleardirect]

Nah! Not really.

The cross-section of pilot DOH/LOS among the three groups has not gone unnoticed by the APA. They have the rare opportunity to eventually take advantage of the east attrition using their own DOH/LOS.

If the fences are strong enough, and high enough, and long enough, the APA would be foolish to not sign off on at least a LOS integration. It would be to their future advantage.

With a strong 7-year fence off AA equipment and bases, most of the east list would be retired before they could get such a bid. Make the fence 10 years, and it's a cinch.

Of course, there would have to be conditions regarding shared growth, base closures, etc. But this airline can "belong" to the APA, or westies, in the years to come. It's up to the APA to decide, since they have the votes.

You guys keep trying to sell attrition as the most valuable thing in the world.

No one is buying it. In the next 7 years according to the NAC the east will retire about 1145 from the east. At that same time APA will retire about 1335.

In the next 10 years the east will retire about 1700. At that same time the APA will retire about 3000.

The APA does not care about your attrition enough to set themselves back by DOH and just allow 85% of the east to be in the top 50% of the combined list. The APA is not going to step aside for a day a week or a month.

DOH is dead.