Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[autofixer]

All of you guys and girls are nuts! It is no wonder the divorce rate is so high amongst pilots, geez get a life. I read this site hoping for a scrap of information and all I get is crap and na, na, na, na, na, I am smarter than you. Here is a headline: you're pilots, you're not that smart and all knowing. Vent over.

 

[snapthis]

March 8, 2013

Leonidas Update

In the USAPA President’s message dated March 6th, 2013, President Gary Hummel announced that USAPA filed a lawsuit in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York. You can download the USAPA lawsuit here. He says that the aim of this litigation is to prevent Leonidas, LLC from interfering with the AMR bankruptcy case that has been underway since November, 2011. You can read the message here.

As the exclusive collective bargaining agent (CBA) for all US Airways pilots, USAPA is the only entity on the Airways side that can interfere with the AMR bankruptcy, and from their filing it looks like they are trying to accomplish exactly that right now.

Truth be told, nobody on the West is trying to stop the merger or derail the MOU, which brings with it long overdue pay and benefit increases for all US Airways pilots. While the MOU voting was open, the USAPA Merger Committee and the USAPA legal counsel were very clear in their statements and communications to the US Airways pilots that the MOU did not take a position on East/West seniority. Among those publicly stating this opinion was none other than USAPA President Gary Hummel – the same Gary Hummel who just two days ago claimed that a West “yes” vote in favor of the MOU was really a vote in favor of USAPA’s DOH scheme. Really?

This seniority issue is not a problem of the West’s making. Stronger leadership from both ALPA and US Airways at the time Arbitrator Nicolau released his decision could have prevented the battles of the last five years. Judge Wake succinctly explained it:

“If the membership were correctly advised on the limits of fair representation that constrain the agreement—and all the collective bargaining of every union—then they would perceive no incentive to hold out for an improper bargaining objective. Judge Wake, Doc. 593 pg. 29]

But, the failure of third parties to do what needed to be done has not stopped - and will not stop - the former America West pilots from pursuing their rightful claim to the fair, final and binding Nicolau Arbitration which was accepted by Doug Parker on December 20, 2007.

To that effect, West legal counsel was compelled to file a DFR complaint on Wednesday in the Federal District Court of Arizona, naming both USAPA and US Airways as Defendants. You can read a copy of the filing here. In other words, Addington II is on.

Our case has been assigned to Senior District Judge Paul Rosenblatt, a President Reagan appointee. Although we believe Judge Rosenblatt to be eminently qualified to hear our case, West counsel believes that it would be best for all if our case was heard by a judge who is intimately familiar with the law of the case. There are two judges who have this prior experience, and those are Judge Silver and Judge Wake. Therefore, a Motion to Transfer was filed yesterday, which you can download here. In the Addington I case heard before Judge Wake, there were just three parties interested in the outcome: USAPA, the West and US Airways. In US Airways’s Declaratory Action case before Judge Silver, there were the same three parties interested in the outcome. Now there are three more parties added to the mix: AMR, APA and the AMR creditors. As we said above, the East/West seniority dispute is not of the West’s making. Pilot seniority was settled nearly six years ago through a binding arbitration, and we are very confident that in the end it will be this arbitrated seniority list that is integrated with the American Airlines pilots. USAPA was afforded some time by the Ninth Circuit to create an alternative which would not violate its duty to fairly represent all pilots, but as many predicted they were unsuccessful. Now, their time is up. In the words of Judge Tashima who authored the majority opinion at the Ninth Circuit in Addington I:

“By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.” Addington v. USAPA, 606 F.3d 1174, 9th Cir. FN 1

We look forward to presenting our case for what will probably be the last time. It is our sincere hope that all US Airways pilots will be able to take the one issue which has divided us and put it squarely in the rear view mirror. Every US Airways pilot has suffered by USAPA’s misperceived and unwarranted fear of the Nicolau. Despite the fact that it is actually the responsibility of union leadership to educate their pilots, the West has tried for years to respectfully explain to our East brethren that Arbitrator Nicolau blended two lists into one via a ratio method that placed all active pilots close to their original seniority on the respective East and West lists. Our attempts to elicit understanding have been constantly met with hostility. By finally ending this dispute with the East, we look forward to better days ahead for all and the West sincerely hopes that all parties can move forward collectively to build a “New American Airlines.”

Stay informed, stay focused, and keep the goal in sight.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

 

[dca319]

All of you guys and girls are nuts! It is no wonder the divorce rate is so high amongst pilots, geez get a life. I read this site hoping for a scrap of information and all I get is crap and na, na, na, na, na, I am smarter than you. Here is a headline: you're pilots, you're not that smart and all knowing. Vent over.

Then why do you come here for information?

 

[Black Swan]

March 8, 2013

Leonidas Update

In the USAPA President’s message dated March 6th, 2013, President Gary Hummel announced that USAPA filed a lawsuit in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York. You can download the USAPA lawsuit here. He says that the aim of this litigation is to prevent Leonidas, LLC from interfering with the AMR bankruptcy case that has been underway since November, 2011. You can read the message here.

As the exclusive collective bargaining agent (CBA) for all US Airways pilots, USAPA is the only entity on the Airways side that can interfere with the AMR bankruptcy, and from their filing it looks like they are trying to accomplish exactly that right now.

Truth be told, nobody on the West is trying to stop the merger or derail the MOU, which brings with it long overdue pay and benefit increases for all US Airways pilots. While the MOU voting was open, the USAPA Merger Committee and the USAPA legal counsel were very clear in their statements and communications to the US Airways pilots that the MOU did not take a position on East/West seniority. Among those publicly stating this opinion was none other than USAPA President Gary Hummel – the same Gary Hummel who just two days ago claimed that a West “yes” vote in favor of the MOU was really a vote in favor of USAPA’s DOH scheme. Really?

This seniority issue is not a problem of the West’s making. Stronger leadership from both ALPA and US Airways at the time Arbitrator Nicolau released his decision could have prevented the battles of the last five years. Judge Wake succinctly explained it:

“If the membership were correctly advised on the limits of fair representation that constrain the agreement—and all the collective bargaining of every union—then they would perceive no incentive to hold out for an improper bargaining objective. Judge Wake, Doc. 593 pg. 29]

But, the failure of third parties to do what needed to be done has not stopped - and will not stop - the former America West pilots from pursuing their rightful claim to the fair, final and binding Nicolau Arbitration which was accepted by Doug Parker on December 20, 2007.

To that effect, West legal counsel was compelled to file a DFR complaint on Wednesday in the Federal District Court of Arizona, naming both USAPA and US Airways as Defendants. You can read a copy of the filing here. In other words, Addington II is on.

Our case has been assigned to Senior District Judge Paul Rosenblatt, a President Reagan appointee. Although we believe Judge Rosenblatt to be eminently qualified to hear our case, West counsel believes that it would be best for all if our case was heard by a judge who is intimately familiar with the law of the case. There are two judges who have this prior experience, and those are Judge Silver and Judge Wake. Therefore, a Motion to Transfer was filed yesterday, which you can download here. In the Addington I case heard before Judge Wake, there were just three parties interested in the outcome: USAPA, the West and US Airways. In US Airways’s Declaratory Action case before Judge Silver, there were the same three parties interested in the outcome. Now there are three more parties added to the mix: AMR, APA and the AMR creditors. As we said above, the East/West seniority dispute is not of the West’s making. Pilot seniority was settled nearly six years ago through a binding arbitration, and we are very confident that in the end it will be this arbitrated seniority list that is integrated with the American Airlines pilots. USAPA was afforded some time by the Ninth Circuit to create an alternative which would not violate its duty to fairly represent all pilots, but as many predicted they were unsuccessful. Now, their time is up. In the words of Judge Tashima who authored the majority opinion at the Ninth Circuit in Addington I:

“By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.” Addington v. USAPA, 606 F.3d 1174, 9th Cir. FN 1

We look forward to presenting our case for what will probably be the last time. It is our sincere hope that all US Airways pilots will be able to take the one issue which has divided us and put it squarely in the rear view mirror. Every US Airways pilot has suffered by USAPA’s misperceived and unwarranted fear of the Nicolau. Despite the fact that it is actually the responsibility of union leadership to educate their pilots, the West has tried for years to respectfully explain to our East brethren that Arbitrator Nicolau blended two lists into one via a ratio method that placed all active pilots close to their original seniority on the respective East and West lists. Our attempts to elicit understanding have been constantly met with hostility. By finally ending this dispute with the East, we look forward to better days ahead for all and the West sincerely hopes that all parties can move forward collectively to build a “New American Airlines.”

Stay informed, stay focused, and keep the goal in sight.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

You have just spent more money on an unripe case. The position of USAPA and US Airways will certainly be no JCBA. The latest EAST bid,which came AFTER the MOU reflects that stance. That will certainly be exhibit A. Leonidas has offered nothing new. No joint contract, no Nicolau or no harm. It is the same case that went to the 9th and will again if an AZ court is bold enough to run with it.

 

[electricjet98]

You have just spent more money on an unripe case. The position of USAPA and US Airways will certainly be no JCBA. The latest EAST bid reflects that stance. That will certainly be exhibit A. Leonidas has offered nothing new. No joint contract, no Nicolau or no harm. It is the same case that went to the 9th and will again if an AZ court is bold enough to run with it.

I must have missed it...where in the MOU does it say we will ever be voting on a JCBA? Where in the MOU does it say that we haven't now ratified and defined a process and general timeline that will lead to a common contract...without further ratification necessary? While certainly a lot of undecideds remain to be decided before we'll be working under a common contract, that eventuality is certain...similar to any CBA that has new provisions and that simply require a certain amount of time prior to implementation.

I'm guessing it's ripe...and if not, at least we won't be time-barred waiting for it to become ripe.

 

[traderjake]

You have just spent more money on an unripe case.

It is possible to repond without copying the whole letter.

 

[electricjet98]

All of you guys and girls are nuts! It is no wonder the divorce rate is so high amongst pilots, geez get a life. I read this site hoping for a scrap of information and all I get is crap and na, na, na, na, na, I am smarter than you. Here is a headline: you're pilots, you're not that smart and all knowing. Vent over.

Sorry, when Michael Dale gets wound-up he is just too much fun to let it go.

 

[Black Swan]

I must have missed it...where in the MOU does it say we will ever be voting on a JCBA? Where in the MOU does it say that we haven't now ratified and defined a process and general timeline that will lead to a common contract...without further ratification necessary? While certainly a lot of undecideds remain to be decided before we'll be working under a common contract, that eventuality is certain...similar to any CBA that has new provisions and that simply require a certain amount of time prior to implementation.

I'm guessing it's ripe...and if not, at least we won't be time-barred waiting for it to become ripe.

According to the superior court that ruled specifically on this issue, you have not met the requirements to have harm.
The merger iced the deal, you will not have any harm until you have USAPA put you into a CONTRACT that harms you. If, it is perceived to be harm ever.
You missed the boat. You do not have ripeness, again.
You are now fighting a two front war. The company is now at war with you.

 

[Bill Brasky]

I must have missed it...where in the MOU does it say we will ever be voting on a JCBA? Where in the MOU does it say that we haven't now ratified and defined a process and general timeline that will lead to a common contract...without further ratification necessary? While certainly a lot of undecideds remain to be decided before we'll be working under a common contract, that eventuality is certain...similar to any CBA that has new provisions and that simply require a certain amount of time prior to implementation.

I'm guessing it's ripe...and if not, at least we won't be time-barred waiting for it to become ripe.

Try checking out the MOU, under sub numeral 1. I'm guessing you haven't read it or gone to a road show. Good guess?

 

[snapthis]

According to the superior court that ruled specifically on this issue, you have not met the requirements to have harm.
The merger iced the deal, you will not have any harm until you have USAPA put you into a CONTRACT that harms you. If, it is perceived to be harm ever.
You missed the boat. You do not have ripeness, again.
You are now fighting a two front war. The company is now at war with you.

BS

That's for a judge to decide.

 

[Black Swan]

BS

That's for a judge to decide.

As I recall, the 9th did. Did you miss that?

 

[snapthis]

When was it when your posse came to town telling us about your DOH pipe dream with the wet dream of USAPA. How many years?

Ain't going to happen, not now, not ever. Even with the dues increase. LOA 93, dues increases, etc. Another 8-3 vote, so don't blame the West, again. You can thank your EAST reps for the increase.

Still making those promises.

USAPA and DOH are DOA.

 

[snapthis]

As I recall, the 9th did. Did you miss that?

The difference between you and me as the fact I actually read the transcripts and go to the courthouse. If I have a question, I ask the attorney and not from any attorney USAPA has hired or fired.

 

[Phoenix]

You have just spent more money on an unripe case. The position of USAPA and US Airways will certainly be no JCBA. The latest EAST bid,which came AFTER the MOU reflects that stance. That will certainly be exhibit A. Leonidas has offered nothing new. No joint contract, no Nicolau or no harm. It is the same case that went to the 9th and will again if an AZ court is bold enough to run with it.

Leospanker's summary says they filed a DFR against USAPA and US Airways.... WTF..When does a company have a duty to represent pilots.. and especially DURING JCBA bargaining?! Companies have a responsibility to bargain AGAINST pilots to maximize SHAREHOLDER equity! And as you said ref USAPA... not ripe, West class still bound. Wasting money.

 

[prechilill]

He said bio jangles you idiot. And you are the racist who brought race into associating chicken to any race. Disgusting. I feel sorry for AAA and AMR. They rejected you years ago and you slipped in the back door.

Nope- it definitely had a racial tone to it. Perhaps an apology for the offensive post?