Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

If you want ot hear about angry F/As talk to our crews that fly PHL to Europe.

Ok, talk to me.

I haven't the foggiest idea of what you speak. Sure, there are always angry individuals on the crew sometimes, but they are a very small minority...even a rare exception as far as I can tell.

The PHL transatlantic flight attendant cadre is by and large very pleasant and, almost without exception, quintessential professionals at what they do.

There, you just got the word from someone who flies PHL to Europe.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The next aol lawsuit will tie this up long enough for single carrier status to kick in an evaporate USCABA. Hence, no objections to using the Nic. Court will usher in the Nic one way or another. The company isn't stupid and they're neutral as well. APA is a real union that actually WANTS to avoid a slam dunk lawsuit.

You can't negate the effect of McCaskill-Bond by taking away one side's ability to be separately represented in the process.

In your dream word, USAPA would go away and the APA would then be able to do a TWA on the US Airways pilots.

Somehow, I doubt the arbitrators would even put up with that concept. USAPA will exists in some form or another until the SLI process is complete. There is no other way to comply with McC-B.

 

[Ames]

What difference would "paying attention" make? The die is cast with the ratification of the MOU. We are all along for the ride, although some will insist on flushing their money down the toilet in a hopeless attempt to affect the outcome.

The company took that postion simply because it is the easiest way out for them.

Who cares what the AFA does? (Unless of course, one is a US AFA member, in which case you can voice your concerns on the Flight Attendant thread.)

Yes, the east wil finally get PBS. But I doubt it will resemble the antique version the west loves so much.

Yes, the FAs voted to stop co-pairings. So what?

And finally, yes, we are all aware that the west AFOs are not as polite as the east FOs. That is abundantly clear from eight years of posting here. So, don't sign the FAs in. Do you eve get thirsty on a flight? Do you eve have to pee so bad your eyeballs turn yellow? Good luck with that attitude when you fly with former-east FAs. You will wet your pants, which is probably not that unfamiliar to you anyway.

It doesn't take much to get you all spun up, does it? By your response I can tell these things are eating you up. I can't wait to see your reaction when the company and APA tell you morons that they will only use the Nic because, in your words, it is the easiest way out for them.

 

[Ames]

Which is exactly what I said, and you accused me of a total fabrication.

There's a word for people like you. It rhymes with Enron.

Like I said, they didn't take a tantrum like you're taking now. Grow up.

 

[nycbusdriver]

What?

Usapa filed a law suit against members not protected them from law suits. RICO.

Usapa has done nothing to protect west seniority.

USAPA is indeed protecting the seniority you actually earned beginning the day you showed up to work at AWA. It's in the C&B-Ls.

 

[nycbusdriver]

We actually struck for him first. We already had him do a prior integration and figured he was a known quantity.

That's true. What just boggle my mind is that "known quantity" should have been a red flag to strike him immediately. The "known quantity" was that he is a slotting one-trick pony.

 

[Piedmont1984]

If the SLI gets to arbitration, the resulting list will likely resemble the Nic even if the Nic is not presented, IMHO. It is doubtful that the arbitration panel will place any fences, conditions, or restrictions between east and west US Airways pilots as they will likely view both as one pilot group.

IMHO, the panel can't simply ignore the language in the MOU. So they will consider Nicolau's conclusions, factor in the MOU language, particularly sections 4 and 10-h, sprinkle in 6 years of new developments, USAPA's proposal (which may include a fence between east and west) and craft an entirely new LCC seniority arrangement as a prelude to a larger, consolidated AA/LCC SLI.

 

[Res Judicata]

IMHO, the panel can't simply ignore the language in the MOU. So they will consider Nicolau's conclusions, factor in the MOU language, particularly sections 4 and 10-h, sprinkle in 6 years of new developments, USAPA's proposal (which may include a fence between east and west) and craft an entirely new LCC seniority arrangement as a prelude to a larger, consolidated AA/LCC SLI.

Highly doubtful that the group of arbitrators will view any East/West issues as their responsibility. That's not what they're there to accomplish. This is between APA and USAPA. That's it. We all know the USTUPID play book. ANYTHING they attempt to get in front of an arbitrator that distinguishes the West from the East will be ham handedly engineered to disadvantage the West to the sole benefit of the East. Right back to court for a restraining order the very day that idea is released. How many wrenches do you think the arbitration panel will allow to be thrown into the process? My guess: zero.

The scope of their work is between the two distinct parties...you know... THE SOLE BARGAINING AGENTS...I love how you guys only want those pesky little rules applied when you want them to be and ignored when it doesn't suit the plan to screw the West. You think you're being clever too. That's the funny part. There isn't a single observer of this situation that doesn't FULLY understand what is being attempted by USCABA and FULLY understand how wrong and illegal it is. Everyone from The Big Coward Drunk Doug Parker right down to every last juror on the Addington panel...a case so squarely placed FRONT AND CENTER In front of the NMB last November....say, btw, whatever happened with all of that? I think we all know USCABA speak by now...silence= unmitigated failure.

Gee, what a surprise.

 

[Pi brat]

Getting an MOU combines the east and west. The company has a list combined seniority list. Usapa can't just invent a list. The only way usapa gets out of DFR is if the west agrees. We do not.

Yes the Jones letter is still valid because the company still has liability. Judge Silvers ruling still stands leaving the company to decide if usapa's LUP is legitimate. Not something they want to do.

The only choice the company has is using the Nicolau.

Maybe you are right, but I don't see it as you do.

The MOU doesn't combine the east and west group. It explicitly keeps them separate until a joint SLI with AA is in place. Sections 8e and 10h. Section 15 says it will comply with the TA until the effective date. It also completely leaves the SLI to the MB process. USAPA will be the CBA that hands over the data to that "process".

We'll see, but either Marty or Pat are way off.

You have a tendency to get tunnel vision. Right now you are starring at the US letter to the NMB. I think it is on the other track.

 

[Pi brat]

a case so squarely placed FRONT AND CENTER In front of the NMB last November....say, btw, whatever happened with all of that? I think we all know USCABA speak by now...silence= unmitigated failure.

Gee, what a surprise.

That is all irrelevant now. No need for the company and USAPA to negotiate a US Airways JCBA.

 

[dca319]

That's true. What just boggle my mind is that "known quantity" should have been a red flag to strike him immediately. The "known quantity" was that he is a slotting one-trick pony.

Unbelievable how we set ourselves up not only by striking for him but also removing ourselves from the SLI talks and putting it square in his hands to decide the list. Hindsight is 20/20 and one can see just how stupid our move was.

 

[dca319]

That is all irrelevant now. No need for the company and USAPA to negotiate a US Airways JCBA.

I don't think USAPA had plans for that anyway.

 

[nycbusdriver]

He's a WWII vet who lost a leg. He fought for this country.
Thank you for your sevice, George Nicolau.

George Nicolau
Born February 14, 1925
George Nicolau is an American jurist who works out of New York. Before entering college, Nicolau lost a leg during World War II. After his recovery, he turned to law. He graduated from Columbia University with his juris doctor degree and became a high-powered attorney.

No question, Nicolau should be thanked for his service and sacrifice in the military.

Does his heroic service and loss give him special aptitude as a lawyer or arbitrator? No.

 

[dca319]

IMHO, the panel can't simply ignore the language in the MOU. So they will consider Nicolau's conclusions, factor in the MOU language, particularly sections 4 and 10-h, sprinkle in 6 years of new developments, USAPA's proposal (which may include a fence between east and west) and craft an entirely new LCC seniority arrangement as a prelude to a larger, consolidated AA/LCC SLI.

So that's it? We ignore an arbitrator's list for all these years and will simply be awarded a new list for our "effort" to avoid it with no retribution from the west. I think you're in for a surprise.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It doesn't take much to get you all spun up, does it? By your response I can tell these things are eating you up. I can't wait to see your reaction when the company and APA tell you morons that they will only use the Nic because, in your words, it is the easiest way out for them.

Me? Spun up? On the contrary. I personally have no dog in the east-west fight, but I do have strong opinions and convictions.

Like I said, they didn't take a tantrum like you're taking now. Grow up.

You fool!