Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[NYGiantsFan90]

You are the one who is resorting to attacks rather than discussing IAM Fleet Service negotiations, not Tim. When you don't like what an individual on this forum has to say you resort to attacks, nothing new here.

Josh

Doesnt seem like an attack to me, those events happened, myself and other coworkers were witness to it.

 

[700UW]

And non-union mechanics at Delta and jetBlue make more than IAM mechanics at USAIR. The IAM has facilitated bargain basement labor costs for USAIR since 2002, and as Bob posted earlier they seem fine kicking the can down the road and maintaining the concessionary agreements.

Josh

I guess you cant comprehend that fact that there hasnt been traditional Section 6 agreement since 1999, this is the first section 6 since chapter 11, now the playing field is level and not one sided in favor of the company.

But hey, dont let the facts get in your way once again.

 

[737823]

I guess you cant comprehend that fact that there hasnt been traditional Section 6 agreement since 1999, this is the first section 6 since chapter 11, now the playing field is level and not one sided in favor of the company.

But hey, dont let the facts get in your way once again.

You already all ready replied to that post earlier:

Thats because DL only filed chapter 11 once, not twice, DL has laid-off many mechanics when they closed hangars in TPA and DFW, and DL outsources a lot of their heavy maintenance and hires contract mechanics in ATL heavy instead of their own employees, DGS.

Keep trying.

And B6 doesnt have costs of a legacy, but their maintenance costs are creeping up, they got all their slots at JFK for free, and airbus gave them a great deal on the planes and for the first five years they maintenance costs were very low as the planes were new.

B6 is learning that is has to make money from other sources and will begin offering premium seating on the JFK to West Coast markets.

Just so you know, DGS is a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines, they work for a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines Inc., receive Delta pass privileges and other benefits through Delta.

Funny you justify the higher wages and better benefits for DL workers with the following:

More misinformation.

The IAM doesnt outsource stations nor do they select who will do the work at a non-ua employee station, that would be UA management.

And there is no airline that has ramp or mechanics at every single city they fly into, union or non-union.

So again you keep attacking Tim and myself, get upset at any criticism of the IAM. It's clear the UA agreement sold out the members, Kev said that the membership identified scope and health care as their priorities and based on this TA the negotiating team did a horrible job.

Josh

 

[700UW]

The truth and facts are not attacks.

And I didnt know the board has a policy that you cant post more than once on a post, oh, they dont.

Is that the best you can do?

Debate and refute the facts, oh wait you cant.

DGS employees are not DL employees it is a subsidiary, and they dont receive he same pay and benefits as mainline DL employees.

So since Piedmont and PSA are owned by US are they US employees?

Nope, and they dont get the same pay, benefits nor the same status when they fly mainline.

Since DL purchased the oil refinery, are they DL employees and get pass benefits too?

NOPE.

 

[737823]

The truth and facts are not attacks.

And I didnt know the board has a policy that you cant post more than once on a post, oh, they dont.

Is that the best you can do?

Debate and refute the facts, oh wait you cant.

DGS employees are not DL employees it is a subsidiary, and they dont receive he same pay and benefits as mainline DL employees.

So since Piedmont and PSA are owned by US are they US employees?

Nope, and they dont get the same pay, benefits nor the same status when they fly mainline.

Since DL purchased the oil refinery, are they DL employees and get pass benefits too?

NOPE.

Wrong: http://deltaglobalstaffing.com/index.php

I said they receive benefits through Delta Air Lines Inc., not necessarily the same benefits as Delta Air Lines employees.

You really seam to hate Tim, I guess you don't like that he posts the truth, makes his positions clear and calls out IAM leaders for their failures.

Josh

 

[700UW]

You better get the old eyes checked, it clearly states its a subsidary of Delta, not Delta itself, right there on the web page.

Tim, doesnt post the truth, tim twists it to suit his needs, notice how he didnt address anything he has done in the past, ask any CLT ramper on here and they can tell you its about tim and his grasp and need to be in power.

They get their benefits from DGS, not DL, and they dont even get a 401k until a year of employment.

Care to address any other points raised to you?

 

[ChockJockey]

Josh, he doesn't have a life and doesn't even work in the airline industry. He is mostly angry because he was on a negotiation team and didn't find out until after his group got contracted out that the language he agreed to as a lavman was useless. Then he equates the BUF situation where the members all got paid and the company violated the contract, to a legal lockout. Absurd. Again, no airline is legally allowed to lockout a group of workers in the airline industry if they don't strike. I'm not sure why he has to continue fighting this??? The RLA was agreed to and amended to include airlines in the 30's and all the unions agreed to it. If not for the RLA, I seriously doubt more than 10% of our membership would be paying dues to the IAM right now. It supersedes RTW laws. The reason why 700 and the IAM talks so negative about the RLA, and blame the law, is so they can continue their Pollyanna support of an organization that has simply done a lousy job from start to finish in representing. As for me, if I was such a piss clam member then the IAM wouldn't have employed me after many of his allegations. They wouldn't have bothered asking me to formulate organizing plans and winning them. I mean, 700 says I divide and destruct yet the IAM hired me to build solidarity. Had the IAM gone mad? Of course not, because building solidarity within the masses is what I do. I won every organizing election for the IAM by building solidarity through effective communication, education, and trust. At the end of the day, I could no longer organize for them since Delaney and the IAM141 eboard betrayed the trust of the members and I had to rise up against them. We gave these guys a shot but they blew it. regards,

Organized writing indicates organized thinking. If you actually want people to read what you're writing (which I didn't), use paragraphs to separate points and ideas to make it digestible to the brain. Unless the point is to willingly mislead and confuse, then a huge ranting block of text will work nicely. The intent of a message is in its arrangement just as much as it's in the words. This advice applies to a number of you who have posted within the last several pages.

iam fired nielson 4
actin as duble agent
n colusion w co

Brother, I really think it sucks you learned English from public restroom stalls. It's none of my business how that all came down. It doesn't matter if everything you say is true and factual when your inability to communicate by itself damages the credibility of the message.

Care to address any other points raised to you?

I know that trollbaiting is an important part of your retirement but could you two get a room or something? Please?

Recommended reading: George Orwell, Politics and the English Language (1946)

A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks. It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts. The point is that the process is reversible. Modern English, especially written English, is full of bad habits which spread by imitation and which can be avoided if one is willing to take the necessary trouble. If one gets rid of these habits one can think more clearly, and to think clearly is a necessary first step toward political regeneration...

 

[ChockJockey]

Most people are oblivious about the politics that affect their own cities, states, this nation, the globe, and even the school districts where they send their kids to get educated. Why then should any of them be expected to take seriously and invest time in learning about a whole other realm of politics which, from the outside, looks just like a huge collection of hacks and amateurs blaming each other from what is, at root, a foundational and systemic inability of a labor organization to remain relevant?

Who benefits from an uninformed and apathetic membership? The company, certainly, but solidarity and awakening are a double-edged sword, and in rousing the membership - which the IAM claims to want to do - it runs the risk of itself becoming the victim of popular ire when its own inventory of shortcomings comes under scrutiny. It seems to me that there are those who have gained such comfort and security by virtue of their positions of "serving" the membership that they would rather not see this happen. I don't imagine it's lost on Delaney and his underlings that an awakened membership might stand up not only to the company but to his 'company' as well.

This is a recurrent problem in democratic politics: institutions chosen and mandated by a population to protect and serve its interests over time come to be as exploitative as the entities it was selected to protect that population against. This is precisely why Thomas Jefferson said, perhaps partially tongue-in-cheek, that God forbid we go 20 years without a revolution. We see this same dynamic writ large in our national democracy, in which mass disinterest has allowed the government to acquire powers and capabilities that have the potential of being used in very anti-democratic ways (and in fact regularly are).

As such it's pointless to finger any one person or committee and say they're corrupt or incompetent when the entire structure of representation is broken or corrupted. The IAM being its own self-interested entity will at the end of the day prioritize its own wants and needs over that of client memberships it has the legal duty to represent; a disempowered and disinterested membership makes it all the easier for it to do so. No union is immune from the temptations to fleece the flock it is supposed to protect. I see the T/A negotiated for UA fleet to be a case-in-point in this regard.

Since the IAM is essentially hired to work for the membership I believe it's prudent that questions of DFR be asked constantly, and I am suspicious of those who feel that the IAM is somehow above or beyond that kind of scrutiny.

 

[Kev3188]

Good points all, CJ...

 

[ograc]

Most people are oblivious about the politics that affect their own cities, states, this nation, the globe, and even the school districts where they send their kids to get educated. Why then should any of them be expected to take seriously and invest time in learning about a whole other realm of politics which, from the outside, looks just like a huge collection of hacks and amateurs blaming each other from what is, at root, a foundational and systemic inability of a labor organization to remain relevant?

Who benefits from an uninformed and apathetic membership? The company, certainly, but solidarity and awakening are a double-edged sword, and in rousing the membership - which the IAM claims to want to do - it runs the risk of itself becoming the victim of popular ire when its own inventory of shortcomings comes under scrutiny. It seems to me that there are those who have gained such comfort and security by virtue of their positions of "serving" the membership that they would rather not see this happen. I don't imagine it's lost on Delaney and his underlings that an awakened membership might stand up not only to the company but to his 'company' as well.

This is a recurrent problem in democratic politics: institutions chosen and mandated by a population to protect and serve its interests over time come to be as exploitative as the entities it was selected to protect that population against. This is precisely why Thomas Jefferson said, perhaps partially tongue-in-cheek, that God forbid we go 20 years without a revolution. We see this same dynamic writ large in our national democracy, in which mass disinterest has allowed the government to acquire powers and capabilities that have the potential of being used in very anti-democratic ways (and in fact regularly are).

As such it's pointless to finger any one person or committee and say they're corrupt or incompetent when the entire structure of representation is broken or corrupted. The IAM being its own self-interested entity will at the end of the day prioritize its own wants and needs over that of client memberships it has the legal duty to represent; a disempowered and disinterested membership makes it all the easier for it to do so. No union is immune from the temptations to fleece the flock it is supposed to protect. I see the T/A negotiated for UA fleet to be a case-in-point in this regard.

Since the IAM is essentially hired to work for the membership I believe it's prudent that questions of DFR be asked constantly, and I am suspicious of those who feel that the IAM is somehow above or beyond that kind of scrutiny.

Well stated CJ. A union, like any business or company, can be tempted to "fleece the flock" and put more emphasis on their own self interests. Within organized labor this reasoning and perception desperately needs to change. If it does not... what is the need for monthly dues representation for the typical employee? Organized labor is at it's lowest rate since the 1930s in members represented in the private sector. Many factors contribute to this sad statistic but what you speak of is certainly one of them.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You better get the old eyes checked, it clearly states its a subsidary of Delta, not Delta itself, right there on the web page.

Tim, doesnt post the truth, tim twists it to suit his needs, notice how he didnt address anything he has done in the past, ask any CLT ramper on here and they can tell you its about tim and his grasp and need to be in power.

They get their benefits from DGS, not DL, and they dont even get a 401k until a year of employment.

Care to address any other points raised to you?

Tsk Tsk Tsk. Of course I addressed your falsehoods. I simply used the IAM as my witness as the IAM hired me after all of your accusations. Why on earth would they hire someone with no credibility to direct organizing drives from 2009-2011 when their United membership is on the line? The Director of organizing better be one of the most credible members around. Of course I was credible, and I became the best and netted 16,000 members by going 3 for 3 in organizing campaigns because I was very credible. Am I arrogant? Yes, and plenty of it. I'm also an ####. I don't seek anyone's trust and I don't covet any job. I love my life and love myself and that enables me to love others and seek justice. Have I been wrong in my life? Yes, more than I would have liked to be. You say, Ask CLT? I never lost the trust of the majority of CLT as I had little problem attaining their nomination over the chants of their Committee chair and AGC. Hadn't I suspended my campaign a day before the CLT count and told all of my key people that we were suspending the campaign to shift to a legal battle [still ongoing] i'm quite confident that I would have been the majority vote getter. As far as PHX and PHL, I got more US AIRWAYS votes than anyone else, including Delaney so how could you say I'm not credible? He only ended up with 12 more votes than me after throwing in over 100 United voters. I forced Delaney to mortgage the future of his team with his short term lies to gain his votes. Knowing quite well that he will be ill positioned when all that I said came to pass. Well, I'm not a prophet but everything I said came to pass and I warned the United members by using the Hawaiian contract, like I'm warning the US AIRWAYS workers by using the United contract. I'd say I am ferocious because I stick to the truth and my credibility at united is strong where over 8,000 views of my one video was 4 times more than all of Delaney's video's combined. Never mind that the IAM put in a special flyer to all of the voters how they ought not to listen to 'facebook', which was a not so subtle attack on me. But I'm not done, we gave these clowns a shot and they betrayed myself and now the membership. They just didn't listen so they screwed everything up by selling out the membership. The battle isn't won but it has been more than just begun. At the end of the day, the United TA is a battle for the middle class in this industry. The IAM unfortunately sided with management but thankfully the United workers, imo, will vote the contracts out not because of me but because they read the contract. The IAM continually thinks just because we work the ramp that we are dumb arses. regards, www.rampworker.com

 

[ChockJockey]

I know that trollbaiting is an important part of your retirement but could you two get a room or something? Please?

I forgot to mention you should have read this part in the voice of this guy.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Organized writing indicates organized thinking. If you actually want people to read what you're writing (which I didn't), use paragraphs to separate points and ideas to make it digestible to the brain. Unless the point is to willingly mislead and confuse, then a huge ranting block of text will work nicely. The intent of a message is in its arrangement just as much as it's in the words. This advice applies to a number of you who have posted within the last several pages.



Brother, I really think it sucks you learned English from public restroom stalls. It's none of my business how that all came down. It doesn't matter if everything you say is true and factual when your inability to communicate by itself damages the credibility of the message.



I know that trollbaiting is an important part of your retirement but could you two get a room or something? Please?

Recommended reading: George Orwell, Politics and the English Language (1946)

For some reason, my computer can't do paragraphs in this format. On top of that, I never won a spelling B, and thank God for the grammar majors who formatted my research papers in grad school. regards,

 

[700UW]

Gee looks who owns, rampworker.com


Domain Name.......... rampworker.com
Creation Date........ 2012-11-15
Registration Date.... 2012-11-15
Expiry Date.......... 2013-11-15
Tracking Number...... 1759408089_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Organisation Name.... Tim Nelson
Organisation Address. PO Box 61359
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. Sunnyvale
Organisation Address. 94088
Organisation Address. CA
Organisation Address. US

 

[BLUTO]

Gee looks who owns, rampworker.com


Domain Name.......... rampworker.com
Creation Date........ 2012-11-15
Registration Date.... 2012-11-15
Expiry Date.......... 2013-11-15
Tracking Number...... 1759408089_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Organisation Name.... Tim Nelson
Organisation Address. PO Box 61359
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. Sunnyvale
Organisation Address. 94088
Organisation Address. CA
Organisation Address. US

itz owned by nielson
funded by co!