Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Tim Nelson]

Mike33,
Based on what this district leadership agreed to at UA I have no faith, or reason to believe, the district would negotiate something better for our group. It's not VOODOO magic spewing... it's reasonable assumptions based on the past practice of the district negotiating agreements at UA. The same district negotiating our contract. I am a leader at my station... and rest assurred this district and our negotiations have my undivided and more importantly unbiased attention. What will your defense be when you have something on paper and the district agrees, as with the UA TA, it is a great agreement? Do you really believe, based on what this district agreed to at UA, we can expect a superior agreement? I'm sorry I may dissapoint... but I'll call em as I see em. By the time this district proves to you otherwise it will be too late for countless members.

There really is no evidence and none of our negotiators have any semblance of skillset to understand and engage with Delaney. I'm very concerned, as well as we all should be, given the hoodwinking at United. Negotiations will rise or fall with Delaney and I don't like those odds. The company simply will not respect things. If there was a TA that was substandard then I think the social networking can deconstruct any substandard ta and engage in educational discussion quicker than the union could try to sell it. Myself and some others have taken the time to educate and provide information for our United brothers and sisters and it will prevent a complete destruction over there. Ograc, I find your other ideas interesting on any possible representational dispute. To be sure, I'd take the IAM over the TWU, and I would even do what is necessary to gain hundreds of cards for the IAM in ORD to trigger a representational dispute [TWU ORD rampers are wide open for change]. But if there is a representational election then I think a 3rd union may engage and could make things more interesting. As of now, the IAM has not contacted me to help them in card collection so I presume they are doing well by themselves. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

You take the no lose position... ur right and im wrong.....im right and you gain also......its not about being right or wrong. Its about support and i understand that you use other companies negotiations as a footnote, but i don't. The negotiating parties are made up a little different. If anything is holding them back it is your line of thinking and your willingness to throw them to the wind knowing all along the company is reading your remarkes....Yes i know you are the leader at your station i know. I am still a little disappointed in your forthrightness of convicting with nothing on paper yet

Mike, everything is on paper. Delaney is the main feature and hammered Hawaiian airlines and just pounded the members at United. He will do likewise with our US AIRWAYS negotiators as they are no match for his BS. regards,

 

[mike33]

Mike, everything is on paper. Delaney is the main feature and hammered Hawaiian airlines and just pounded the members at United. He will do likewise with our US AIRWAYS negotiators as they are no match for his BS. regards,

I dont want to compare UA paper and i dont want compare HA paper. Period!

 

[robbedagain]

lets not start talking about illegal work slow downs ... no one here is stupid , not us , not management reading this ...

let us remain cool calm and collected ... patience is a virtue...

As to taking out a 100K ad in USA today to complain about whatever ,yeah I agree with the other poster who said that no one will care .. ...that's like protesting outside of Wal-Mart because their non-union and don't pay a living wage , their parking lots will still be full and you'll just end up with heat stroke .

I think we need to remind the company that our performance as a work group has been exemplary .... Remember this management group is all about performance vs cost ..

If our union wanted to spend some coin , they should create some graphs that show our MBR before our new contract and our MBR afterwards ...

One of the problems that we have is that our management is for the most part old AWA brass so their much more apt to see the decreased MBR from the west system and assume that further gains would be less likely company wide .

Happy workers are PRODUCTIVE workers , and while we here in the west were VERY happy with our new contract , our fellow brothers and sisters in the former US Air portion of the system only received minimal gains economically ..

We need to argue strongly that increased compensation will result in decreased delays and MBR ...

as for illegal work slow down.. no one said a word about illegal slow down.. go by the manual as it is written and if it delays planes remember fuel burn is the most expensive as the labors wages have been sliced far below what it used to be... how the he!! can there be a HAPPY WORKFORCE when us mgmt went BEHIND OUR BACKS TO MAKE BACK ROOM DEALS WITH ANTHR AIRLINE AND THEIR UNIONS WITHOUT SECURING CONTRACT AGREEMENTS FOR US EMPLOYEES FIRST????? Are you on something there freedom? higher compensation equals less delays and mbr??? higher wages and better contracts and you would have a better productive workforce... as far as the mbr the company as a whole is doing better than in the past... hell their about to allow customers to track their bags on all us and use flights.... how much better can you get freedom? people like you need to wake the hell up and see what this mgmt is for who they truly are... they are out to merge with aa come hell or high water they would love to have a contract like twu and the ta at ual not talking about protesting but taking an ad out in the papers might capture the public attention but its attention that the company dont want but may be it might be a lit bit of added pressure on mgmt to do something but may be not either but it would get their attention but in reality the iam 141 needs to ask the nmb to be released bec it is obviously clear that mgmt has absolutely no intentions on getting any kind of contracts period look at iam 142 web and you can read why they are asking to be released

 

[Tim Nelson]

I dont want to compare UA paper and i dont want compare HA paper. Period!

You want to continue closing your eyes and act like something will be different with Delaney at US AIRWAYS because of why? regards,

 

[freedom]

I will say this .. the longer we go without contract improvements that many workers have been looking forwards to for many years , the more morale will fall ...

As to letting customers track their bags , that's news to me ... uck I think it's a horrible idea ...

 

[mike33]

You want to continue closing your eyes and act like something will be different with Delaney at US AIRWAYS because of why? regards,

Why not?...im not saying im going to be right, but i havent seen anything on paper from our negotiations to regurgitate at this point. Tim if you were in office and i voted for you, i would give you the same consideration. Period !

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why not?...im not saying im going to be right, but i havent seen anything on paper from our negotiations to regurgitate at this point. Tim if you were in office and i voted for you, i would give you the same consideration. Period !

Well, nobody knows for sure what will transpire it's just that the leadership and AGC's haven't taken the prelim work to task yet. Certainly, I wouldn't expect the company to give our members anything unless solidarity was built up. Solidarity needs to be built up not only within the fleet service group, through participation, i.e., pickets, and other strategies that take advantage of our civil rights as opposed to labor rights, AND there has got to be such activity that is coordinated with the IAM brothers and sisters of DL142. I haven't seen any evidence of any of this and DL142 might as well just be an entirely different union at this point. That has to change and the IAM districts have to get their head out of their political a&*^ and join together. Talk and dopey updates don't do it for me and it won't produce anything of substance. The two districts must start planning things together and they have no choice but to trust their members. I will throw up if these clowns come back and start saying "There is only so much on the table". I expect leading industry for our members. The biggest airline should have the biggest salary/benefits. Gosh forbid if our negotiators only bring back 3% pay raises. Delaney talked about past sacrifices in his update. Such terms have left his vocabulary at United but he said the same thing over there in almost every update. Regardless, the prelim work has not been done. regards,

 

[robbedagain]

I will say this .. the longer we go without contract improvements that many workers have been looking forwards to for many years , the more morale will fall ...

As to letting customers track their bags , that's news to me ... uck I think it's a horrible idea ...

i think it is one idea that is good is to let customer track their bags... of course i would never expect you to think otherwise given how you would vote for contracts that states outsourcing is beautiful for the company
morale fallin.. where have you been its been low morale for quite some time now... stop being a mgmt suck up mgmt has had more than 2 yrs to hammer an agreement... yet they went behind the union backs.... they got the f/a an agreement that they voted in on the 3rd time... dont know about the dispatchers and flight sim folks.... but given that the iam 142 has asked to be released from the talks and the 141 should be doing the same.. come on now freedom... the iam is usairways biggest union and there is no excuses for mgmt FAILURE to get a deal with the IAM and there no excuse why the IAM cant ask for a release from talks given that it is very very clear that mgmt has no intentions on getting an agreement

 

[Tim Nelson]

as for illegal work slow down.. no one said a word about illegal slow down.. go by the manual as it is written and if it delays planes remember fuel burn is the most expensive as the labors wages have been sliced far below what it used to be... how the he!! can there be a HAPPY WORKFORCE when us mgmt went BEHIND OUR BACKS TO MAKE BACK ROOM DEALS WITH ANTHR AIRLINE AND THEIR UNIONS WITHOUT SECURING CONTRACT AGREEMENTS FOR US EMPLOYEES FIRST????? Are you on something there freedom? higher compensation equals less delays and mbr??? higher wages and better contracts and you would have a better productive workforce... as far as the mbr the company as a whole is doing better than in the past... hell their about to allow customers to track their bags on all us and use flights.... how much better can you get freedom? people like you need to wake the hell up and see what this mgmt is for who they truly are... they are out to merge with aa come hell or high water they would love to have a contract like twu and the ta at ual not talking about protesting but taking an ad out in the papers might capture the public attention but its attention that the company dont want but may be it might be a lit bit of added pressure on mgmt to do something but may be not either but it would get their attention but in reality the iam 141 needs to ask the nmb to be released bec it is obviously clear that mgmt has absolutely no intentions on getting any kind of contracts period look at iam 142 web and you can read why they are asking to be released

There are civil rights 'off the property' that could change outcomes. Very very easy things that are legal and will not jeorpardize a breach of contract. Much much more powerful than an illegal slow down. On the property, peaceful demonstrations like a 'moment of solidarity' in the middle of the ramp at a time that does not affect flight activity and stays professional, etc. But, some 'off the property' civil right actions are very very powerful. Delaney refused to incorporate any participation by the members at United and my presumption is that his management style will cause him to refrain from any support for a buildup of solidarity. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

I am not trying to deflect blame....you keep using the UA TA as a threshold . I will not. They will accept or deny the TA on their own. My concern is here at US. Ive been around for 39 yrs and was around in the early 70's when the company tried to bully the teamsters. Well we stuck together and made great strides with our solidarity. All im saying is that im not willing to throw anyone under the bus till they have earned it. And i dont think you know who and for what airlines the UA neg committee was made up of. Yeah its the same district but i dont believe any outcome is copyrighted because of that!

As far as conspiracy?........."This labor organization has a history of agreeing to outsourcing jobs. As stated earlier... maybe it's time to consider a third option for both bargaining groups... Fleet Service and MTC. and Related. IMO... one thing seems certain... the IAM is effectively being eliminated as a player in the future of the combined workforce." ..........your words not mine.....

So, What would be your suggestion ?

Mike, I think your avoidance of the United TA as not being significant is a flaw. I'm busting my a&^* trying to do all I can to educate the members on the IAM141 contract over there because it is not only significant for them but also you and the entire ramp profession. US AIRWAYS management will DEFINATELY see it as significant and if you don't think the damage of the United TA passing will affect your negotiators I think you are misleading yourself. That United TA will even affect Superman, if he was your negotiator, at US AIRWAYS. It is also explicit witness that Delaney doesn't care about US AIRWAYS rampers either. regards,

 

[necigrad]

Mike33,
Based on what this district leadership agreed to at UA I have no faith, or reason to believe, the district would negotiate something better for our group. It's not VOODOO magic spewing... it's reasonable assumptions based on the past practice of the district negotiating agreements at UA. The same district negotiating our contract. I am a leader at my station... and rest assurred this district and our negotiations have my undivided and more importantly unbiased attention. What will your defense be when you have something on paper and the district agrees, as with the UA TA, it is a great agreement? Do you really believe, based on what this district agreed to at UA, we can expect a superior agreement? I'm sorry I may dissapoint... but I'll call em as I see em. By the time this district proves to you otherwise it will be too late for countless members.

The NC is made up almost entirely of US employees (with I believe three exceptions), NOT UA employees. What UA got is only something to use as ammo to try to get when they're good. The company will use it to show what they didnt' get. Only an idiot would assume that the US TA (which is still being written) is going to be like the UA one. Even moreso, by saying that it's the same without seeing it tells the NC that you have no respect for their hard work and tells the company that you're not expecting much.

lets not start talking about illegal work slow downs ...

I'm going to doublespeak, so read it CAREFULLY.

There is no talk about illegal slowdowns. All that has been suggested is following the procedures as set by the company. With that out there, any deliberate and coordinated action may be considered an illegal action by the company and potentially lawyers and judges. Keep doing what you've been doing. If you're still around you're doing it right, or at least right enough to establish precedence.

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can build solidarity here at US Airways ?

If people who flip sides at their convienence quit it would go a LONG way to solidarity. It also helps to not support the companies actions. Sometimes being quiet is far less damaging then wearing a skirt and cheering for Parker.

 

[freedom]

I don't flip sides ... i'm a union member and I happen to really like our companies leadership ... it's not now or ever been a secret that I think Doug Parker is the best CEO in the industry .

Just because I like my company and it's leadership does not however mean that I've given up all ambition of having better compensation ..

I also really like being a union Member , wouldn't want to ever be without one ...

 

[700UW]

The NMB wont release two groups at the same airline at the same time.

And freedom, if you were a true union member you wouldnt have been the cheerleader for the current agreement in which you sold out your brothers and sisters for coin.

 

[bagchucker]

Freedom,
Your work makes US leadership shine. US leadership does not shine on merit. What they are doing right now is flat out disrespectful and uprofessional towards both DL 142 and DL 141 on the US property. Perhaps you are brainwashed by the briefings that sensationalize our performance as a company. It is now time (and has been for a while) for the company to answer to OUR work group. We are snubbed at every opportunity the company has to do so... open your eyes. Did you get a piece of pie the other day when everyone else got their profit sharing checks?
And for the poster a few pages back that cited that the TWU is known for outsourcing..ahem...IAM is known for it, too. I fell victim to that and have spent the past 14 months making several personal and professional sacrifices to get back to what was rightfully mine. No thanks to the Company or the Union. I did what I had to do.
Now, you mention remaining calm, cool, and collected. Well, please, sit back and remain idle, it is just what the company would like you to do. They're hoping the rest of our workgroup does, too, so they can sweep us under the rug and forget about us. If your not feeling the recoil from the latest slap in the face, then you are numb.