Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Tim Nelson]

You ALWAYS vote yes to strike. Say that person votes yes and the cba is turned down and you vote no to strike, you know what happens?

You get stuck the cba that was voted down.

That's incorrect. Show me the INTL constitution where the CBA automatically gets voted down? Don't let the facts get in your way because you don't know anything about what you are talking about most of the time. Even on US AIRWAYS, the 1998 contract was voted down by about 80% and had a strike vote of about 48%. No contract was imposed so stop speaking lies. Again, show me the INTL constitution where there is an automatic imposition by the union? regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

And yet the district agrees to a TA that sells out members' jobs, no part time cap, drastic increases to medical contributions, a modest pay increase and a 6 year agreement to a carrier who is going to be the second biggest global carrier going forward. Add that to the dim-witted ideas. This reasoning, as unfortunate as it may be, has been a historic pattern with the membership. Apparently, the district shares this same reasoning by agreeing to and endorsing this TA. Subsequently, with their endorsement, it brings it to the membership with a recommendation for ratification. The blind leading the blind so to speak. I don't understand the reasoning of both parties... some members and more importantly this district leadership.

You should have heard the secret recordings that are online of Delaney in EWR getting scolded. Delaney ended up blowing up. It's all online. The ramp contract is going down in flames and may approach 80%+. PCE contract may hit the 60s%. No scope for ANY station other than 7 stations effective april 1. Actually, these clowns did worse than Canale did. US AIRWAYS has more scope in its bankrupt contract than these supporters and stubborn knuckleheads got for United after United made $4 billion in the last 4 years. regards

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
Will they outsource more jobs at Logan? They have already (or as some here say all ready) cut the station back considerably.

Josh

Josh, there seems to be some denial and "Delaney Delusion" at US AIRWAYS. I am no prophet but I informed everyone that these clowns were terrible and hated the membership and the United folks are now suffering torture with a terrible contract, yet some US AIRWAYS 141 rising supporters are still deluded into thinking that somehow magically Delaney will treat them better in negotiations. Then you have stubborn guys like PJ who hated Canale so bad that he somehow feels he will be proven wrong if he finally admits that Delaney sucks. Most of us who pushed Delaney have already come to that realization and as bad as Canale was, and he was bad, Delaney is worse. As far as BOS, unfortunately, if the United contract came in, then on April 1, BOS can have work contracted out. It will most likely naturally follow that the same knuckleheads will do likewise at US AIRWAYS. Cripes, the entire negotiation team at United said they were going to refuse to give up any work, get full retro, and $26 hr almost to the last day before they signed the silly contract that will destroy the entire craft. What they got was no retro, no scope, and a 3 year wage freeze that only tops them out at $23 and change, in the year 2017. Then there are blowhards like Lehive who claim that the Republicans are destroying the working people but yet he is doing his best act of Frank Lorenzo and pushing a contract that destroys more jobs in this industry than even the US AIRWAYS IAM contract that destroyed 62 stations. The current US AIRWAYS negotiators are bigtime ignorant as well. They have no idea how to build leverage, or where the juice is. They are ignorant but they should still be blamed. I hated being right about the dopes on the United negotiation team. regards,

 

[saywhat]

You should have heard the secret recordings that are online of Delaney in EWR getting scolded. Delaney ended up blowing up. It's all online. The ramp contract is going down in flames and may approach 80%+. PCE contract may hit the 60s%. No scope for ANY station other than 7 stations effective april 1. Actually, these clowns did worse than Canale did. US AIRWAYS has more scope in its bankrupt contract than these supporters and stubborn knuckleheads got for United after United made $4 billion in the last 4 years. regards

Actually, UA lost $281M in the last 4 years, $5.7B if you make it last 5 years. Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[Kev3188]

Will they outsource more jobs at Logan?

Given the language that's in this T/A, they'll certainly have room to do so if it passes...

 

[necigrad]

May I ask... who implied several arbitrations are held in one day? This has never been the case. I would prefer an arbitration hearing that took several days if necessary. This would ensure the case was given it's due consideration, review and process before a decision is rendered.

Here's the post that started me on those lines. It doesn't say it directly, but there's a solid implication...

but i think its ironic that there is only 4 arb cases a yr yet the courts hear multiple cases a day let alone a yr

 

[robbedagain]

nec i was told that by frank o donnell himself to be honest i would have to think there would be more cases heard a yr but not just frank told me that but my union shop steward said the same thing

 

[necigrad]

No worries. My experience over the years has been that people in unions will speak with authority on issues based on what they know to be true. If they haven't been involved in something that makes it untrue they won't know that they're wrong. A big part of this is the whole confidentiality thing; generally arbitrations are supposed to be somewhat hush hush, so the details don't go out. In the case I'm (slightly) familiar with it was a termination. I know the grievant was reinstated. I know the grievant received a check. I've got no idea how much he got paid in restitution or if there was any other awards.

I have that little knowledge. Maybe this arbitration was a rare exception and most are done three a day. Maybe most take a week and a half each. Shop stewards won't know the details. I'd hope an AGC does, but the way things work when it comes to confidentiality agreements you never know.

 

[robbedagain]

understand that now nec my grievance has been on going since july 09 and was suppose to have mediation in jan cancelled by the company i was told... 3 yrs and 8 plus months later still waiting waiting waiting...

 

[cltrat]

understand that now nec my grievance has been on going since july 09 and was suppose to have mediation in jan cancelled by the company i was told... 3 yrs and 8 plus months later still waiting waiting waiting...

no surprises there really robbed. It's just another example of how the company disrespects it employees in general and fleet in particular. Look no further than this merger garbage, they had no problem getting in bed with all the work groups at AA to get their deal done, but what about their own who helped make it possible for them?
The pilots got an MOU with raises FA's got a new contract with more money and I believe betterscope.
So that leaves fleet and M&R all that was done there was a big FU to all.
personally I wouldn't use the restroom on upper management here if they were on fire to put them out.

 

[robbedagain]

as i understand from anthr post on the m n r section the iam 142 is asking to be released for a 30 day count down now as far as 141 frank told me they are in negogiations 24/7 for a new contract that my case will probably be next week due to the lawyer borg is on vacation we will see

 

[ograc]

No worries. My experience over the years has been that people in unions will speak with authority on issues based on what they know to be true. If they haven't been involved in something that makes it untrue they won't know that they're wrong. A big part of this is the whole confidentiality thing; generally arbitrations are supposed to be somewhat hush hush, so the details don't go out. In the case I'm (slightly) familiar with it was a termination. I know the grievant was reinstated. I know the grievant received a check. I've got no idea how much he got paid in restitution or if there was any other awards.

I have that little knowledge. Maybe this arbitration was a rare exception and most are done three a day. Maybe most take a week and a half each. Shop stewards won't know the details. I'd hope an AGC does, but the way things work when it comes to confidentiality agreements you never know.

No worries. My experience over the years has been that people in unions will speak with authority on issues based on what they know to be true. If they haven't been involved in something that makes it untrue they won't know that they're wrong. A big part of this is the whole confidentiality thing; generally arbitrations are supposed to be somewhat hush hush, so the details don't go out. In the case I'm (slightly) familiar with it was a termination. I know the grievant was reinstated. I know the grievant received a check. I've got no idea how much he got paid in restitution or if there was any other awards.

I have that little knowledge. Maybe this arbitration was a rare exception and most are done three a day. Maybe most take a week and a half each. Shop stewards won't know the details. I'd hope an AGC does, but the way things work when it comes to confidentiality agreements you never know.

Necigrad,
Termination cases have and continue to be fast tracked to arbitration. Some are won while others are lost. I would agree confidentiality, in many cases, supresses the union's ability to broadcast their achievments. Additionally, however, in many cases confidentiality allows them to supress their failures. There is no justifiable defense for other grievances, outside of termination, taking over three years to be arbitrated. Most members can accept the fact you aren't going to win them all. What they do expect and are entitled to, as dues paying members, is to be dutifully and fairly represented by their union. Cases awaiting arbitration for over three years is a failure to duly represent IMO.
ograc

 

[737823]

Josh, there seems to be some denial and "Delaney Delusion" at US AIRWAYS. I am no prophet but I informed everyone that these clowns were terrible and hated the membership and the United folks are now suffering torture with a terrible contract, yet some US AIRWAYS 141 rising supporters are still deluded into thinking that somehow magically Delaney will treat them better in negotiations. Then you have stubborn guys like PJ who hated Canale so bad that he somehow feels he will be proven wrong if he finally admits that Delaney sucks. Most of us who pushed Delaney have already come to that realization and as bad as Canale was, and he was bad, Delaney is worse. As far as BOS, unfortunately, if the United contract came in, then on April 1, BOS can have work contracted out. It will most likely naturally follow that the same knuckleheads will do likewise at US AIRWAYS. Cripes, the entire negotiation team at United said they were going to refuse to give up any work, get full retro, and $26 hr almost to the last day before they signed the silly contract that will destroy the entire craft. What they got was no retro, no scope, and a 3 year wage freeze that only tops them out at $23 and change, in the year 2017. Then there are blowhards like Lehive who claim that the Republicans are destroying the working people but yet he is doing his best act of Frank Lorenzo and pushing a contract that destroys more jobs in this industry than even the US AIRWAYS IAM contract that destroyed 62 stations. The current US AIRWAYS negotiators are bigtime ignorant as well. They have no idea how to build leverage, or where the juice is. They are ignorant but they should still be blamed. I hated being right about the dopes on the United negotiation team. regards,

Thanks Tim. I am surprised they were so quick to give up that much scope, seems to me that if it took four years to negotiate something this bad either the company was pushing for something even more flexible-perhaps outsourcing all PCE functions or the DL 141 was more interested in getting the agreement done and gave the company exactly what they wanted. It's amazing how much UA flying is outsourced to Express carriers and many medium/large US markets have single mainline service-places like ATL (1x ORD), STL (1x SFO) or no service at all, maintaining stronger scope along with the new pilot scope should have been a priority.

In the TA video Sito Pantoja, Ira Levy, and Rich Delaney keep saying that a great agreement this is and how the negotiating committee worked "tirelessly" on this "monumental" "unprecedented" agreement and everyone deserves "a huge pat on the back". Do you have any knowledge of any part-time reserve language similar to the recent Hawaiian language?


https://www.youtube....h?v=Z4HP-xwBmxc

Given the language that's in this T/A, they'll certainly have room to do so if it passes...

Well however bad this CBA language is it has to be better than the DL scope, right? Surprised you didn't mention that, it's pretty hard to enforce scope language that *doesn't exist*. Seems to me that the UA PCE members should be asking themselves what value this agreement provides if after four years of negotiations they give away the store through scope concessions maybe they would be better served with different leadership or representation. Again, when was the last time Sito Pantoja worked directly for the airlines? TWA [TWA's assets to be precise] was (were) acquired by AA in 2001, ceased to exist in 2002. Seems Sito was Roach's right hand man for the longest time and his move in to GVP Transportation took no one by surprise as Roach climbed up.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Do you not understand the flight attendants have been negotiating for over seven years, they voted down a TA all ready and then voted this in, they were in JCBA negotiations for their first CBA together.

The pilots got an MOU, not a new CBA, it was just amendments to the old CBA in order to get USAPA along with the merger, it lays the path out on negotiations for a joint CBA with the APA.

Fleet and M&R are in Section 6 negotiations.

 

[737823]

Do you not understand the flight attendants have been negotiating for over seven years, they voted down a TA all ready and then voted this in, they were in JCBA negotiations for their first CBA together.

The pilots got an MOU, not a new CBA, it was just amendments to the old CBA in order to get USAPA along with the merger, it lays the path out on negotiations for a joint CBA with the APA.

Fleet and M&R are in Section 6 negotiations.

Are you referring to USAIR or United? UA has a TA, FAs rejected IAM and pilots have a new agreement too.

Josh