Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[pjirish317]

PJ,
Not saying any team could have or would change US's stall stategy in negotiations. They are masters at it and unfortunately negotiation guidelines under the RLA allows them to get away with it. It's why contracts in the airline industry are now going on average 2.5 years past their ammendable dates. The UA NC is equally responsible for the UA TA but ultimately the buck stops at the District and International level. It's not like the District is bringing this back with no recommendation. They fully endorse it. Think it's the best thing since sliced bread. The CO fleet had no job protection going in.Outside of 7 stations they have none coming out. During the representation election the IAM, especially in the outline stations, drove the issue of no job protection home. They told CO employees this was the main reason they needed to vote for the IAM. Then the UA NC and the District bring this TA back. Do they realize how many CO employees, not to mention UA employees, in outline stations feel they were just sold down the river? Did they think the employees in countless outline stations wouldn't see this TA for what it is? I guess when an employee is forced to commute or transfer when their station has been contacted out in order to stay employed the union sees that as "job protection." I think in the end the union knows it won't matter... they like the company are hoping the 7 stations will carry the vote.

Kind of like the Class 1 vs Class 2 that divided this group huh? When the hubs threw all of the class 2 stations under the bus for an extra $2 an hour? Who's brain child was that?

 

[pjirish317]

ograc,

Again, how would YOU change how long the company takes "reviewing" cases? How would YOU get the company to speed up the process? Seriously, you place blame on the leadership, then turn around and say it's the company's fault for stalling? Waffle much? Which is it? Is the union stalling or the company? Pick one and stick with it. If you care so much, call the AGC's and voice how to effect some changes, instead on bitching about how nothing is ever going to change on here. If you need any of their numbers PM me and I'll get them to you. You have preached that the membership needs to get involved in all aspects, not just the local level right? Well practice what you preach.

 

[ograc]

Kind of like the Class 1 vs Class 2 that divided this group huh? When the hubs threw all of the class 2 stations under the bus for an extra $2 an hour? Who's brain child was that?

Company's strategy and the Canali Team bought into it. Shame on them for it cost countless jobs. You would think the District and the International would have learned from it. Instead... new Leadership Team making the same type of agreements at UA. If it passes there it's coming to the US table next. You know the company is watching very closely.

 

[ograc]

ograc,

Again, how would YOU change how long the company takes "reviewing" cases? How would YOU get the company to speed up the process? Seriously, you place blame on the leadership, then turn around and say it's the company's fault for stalling? Waffle much? Which is it? Is the union stalling or the company? Pick one and stick with it. If you care so much, call the AGC's and voice how to effect some changes, instead on bitching about how nothing is ever going to change on here. If you need any of their numbers PM me and I'll get them to you. You have preached that the membership needs to get involved in all aspects, not just the local level right? Well practice what you preach.

PJ,
Again... allowing the company the opportunity to review slows the process down to reaching a final ruling. They have had pleny of opportunity to review throughout the grievance process. SPEED UP THE PROCESS by not offering the opportunity. I don't see this step, allow the company lawyers an opportunity to review after Step 3 and before arbitration in the hopes of being offered a settlement, in the grievance procedure of the CBA. FAULT: DL 141
Again... the feet dragging and stalling in contract negotiations is the company's strategy. Very good at it and quite effective. FAULT: THE COMPANY and the RLA. Try not to confuse the two seperate issues. Thanks for the offer but I have the AGCs #s.
Please don't lecture me about getting involved there professor. I've been Chairperson, Grievance Committee, Safety Committee Representative and Recording Secretary for 15 + years now in the 2 stations I have worked. I became a Shop Steward as soon as the IAM became our Bargaining Representative. Were you even employed with us then? By the way... how involved have you been during your career?

 

[pjirish317]

ograc,

Yes I was around for our first contract. Actually I was around for several years prior to having a union or a contract. And my level of involvement varies from absolutely ZERO involvement to shop steward to grievance chairperson. And at one point I was a dues objector.

 

[pjirish317]

Company's strategy and the Canali Team bought into it. Shame on them for it cost countless jobs. You would think the District and the International would have learned from it. Instead... new Leadership Team making the same type of agreements at UA. If it passes there it's coming to the US table next. You know the company is watching very closely.

Big if there. And I do not know it is coming to "our" table next. My crystal ball seems to be on the fritz, so trying to predict what "will come to our table next" is a little fuzzy at the moment. I'll let you know when it is repaired and can once again tell the future of US fleet's fate regarding a contract, ok?

 

[ograc]

ograc,

Yes I was around for our first contract. Actually I was around for several years prior to having a union or a contract. And my level of involvement varies from absolutely ZERO involvement to shop steward to grievance chairperson. And at one point I was a dues objector.

Wow! You've been waffling all over the board. My involvement goes as far back as the Teamsters in PIT. Was actively involved with them also. Have remained involved through different unions, leadership teams, business reps. and AGCs. From past to present many good, effective and dedicated while some were sub par at best.

 

[ograc]

Big if there. And I do not know it is coming to "our" table next. My crystal ball seems to be on the fritz, so trying to predict what "will come to our table next" is a little fuzzy at the moment. I'll let you know when it is repaired and can once again tell the future of US fleet's fate regarding a contract, ok?

You're right... strictly speculation on my part but IMO... US will want the same competitive advantage that the IAM afforded to UA. It is after all the same District. For our sake... I hope our NC and the District says no deal and finally takes a stand on this subcontracting issue. If they fail to do so and you work in an outline station you better start packing your bags because you're going to have to displace to a hub in order to continue your employment. Not even a hub of your choice but rather a hub where there are vacancies. They call this seniority protection.

 

[charlie Brown]

Ograc
I have stayed off this site for some time now, and just read people's post. But I have to get on here and set the record straight for my clt boys. You want to be a credible guy on here and I understand that, but once you start posting things that simply isn't true, especially about clt, then I have to correct you. I have read several times, you have post how all the hubs threw the smaller stations under the bus with the last T/A. The real truth is that clt voted the first and the second T/A down by a large margin. So while you want to be credible on here, get your facts straight about clt. I even have the numbers if you want. Call me in the grievance office at 704-359-3350, if you want the numbers.

 

[ograc]

Ograc
I have stayed off this site for some time now, and just read people's post. But I have to get on here and set the record straight for my clt boys. You want to be a credible guy on here and I understand that, but once you start posting things that simply isn't true, especially about clt, then I have to correct you. I have read several times, you have post how all the hubs threw the smaller stations under the bus with the last T/A. The real truth is that clt voted the first and the second T/A down by a large margin. So while you want to be credible on here, get your facts straight about clt. I even have the numbers if you want. Call me in the grievance office at 704-359-3350, if you want the numbers.

I have never specifically mentioned CLT in all of my posts. Many, even in the outline stations, agreed to and voted for the language in the final offers under bankruptcy negotiations and the last Transition Agreement. It's testimony to how short sighted and uninformed this membership can be. It's testimony to why the District should be careful what they tentatively agree to and bring back for the members to vote on. Many believe the Teamsters were voted out because of the influx of the former Piedmont employees at the time. I have never believed this was the case. Many members of the original 4 stations represented by the Teamsters at US AIr voted against Teamster representation. Testimony again... how uninformed, short sighted and subject to being mislead the membership can be. It's time the District realizes this and acts accordingly. Otherwise.. we are destined to repeat past history. I'll be glad to call to discuss but please PM me so I know who to ask for.

 

[charlie Brown]

I have never specifically mentioned CLT in all of my posts. Many, even in the outline stations, agreed to and voted for the language in the final offers under bankruptcy negotiations and the last Transition Agreement. It's testimony to how short sighted and uninformed this membership can be. It's testimony to why the District should be careful what they tentatively agree to and bring back for the members to vote on. Many believe the Teamsters were voted out because of the influx of the former Piedmont employees at the time. I have never believed this was the case. Many members of the original 4 stations represented by the Teamsters at US AIr voted against Teamster representation. Testimony again... how uninformed, short sighted and subject to being mislead the membership can be. It's time the District realizes this and acts accordingly. Otherwise.. we are destined to repeat past history. I'll be glad to call to discuss but please PM me so I know who to ask for.

 

[charlie Brown]

You have repeatedly post how the hubs have thrown the smaller stations under the bus. Facts are, the majority of the agents in clt are made up of stations that have been contracted out due to our bankrupt and current T/A we are working under. These guys know better than anyone how important scope is. They've lived it, as I know you also have coming from pit. I just wanted to set the record straight about clt. While you choose to say hubs and larger stations, that's not completely true. I also know phl voted the first and I think the second T/A down as well. The T/A was voted in by a huge turnout in the west. Which was large and small stations. Many of those stations which are gone now, and many of those folks in clt. Like I said, you mostly seem to be a pretty credible guy that wants to inform the membership, and I respect that. But as soon as you lose your credibility, you lose the ability to Inform the membership.

 

[robbedagain]

charlie youre right that the west and phx all voted for this last contract the 08 one only bec they say the raise then people like freedom complain that the cities out west went out the door all bec they just cared for that money without reading the entire t/a in its entirity scope is very important

as for US i have to think that given that US and AA are merging that should put the IAM in a stronger position to negogiate a better contract and not similar to the UA. if the district came back with a ua type of deal for us i could be wrong but i think it would be shot down i know i would be a NO VOTE on it

orgac, ive been told yesterday and the day before that my particular grievance is being debated by both the company n their lawyers... however my shop steward told me that given how the grievance was written the airline would be a hell of a lot better off at settling the grievance in the mean time i continue to text frank daily sometimes more often than not ill resend it a few times til i get a response if that constituts harassing or something then too bad bec as an AGC its their job to keep us informed at least i believe it is

 

[ograc]

You have repeatedly post how the hubs have thrown the smaller stations under the bus. Facts are, the majority of the agents in clt are made up of stations that have been contracted out due to our bankrupt and current T/A we are working under. These guys know better than anyone how important scope is. They've lived it, as I know you also have coming from pit. I just wanted to set the record straight about clt. While you choose to say hubs and larger stations, that's not completely true. I also know phl voted the first and I think the second T/A down as well. The T/A was voted in by a huge turnout in the west. Which was large and small stations. Many of those stations which are gone now, and many of those folks in clt. Like I said, you mostly seem to be a pretty credible guy that wants to inform the membership, and I respect that. But as soon as you lose your credibility, you lose the ability to Inform the membership.

Hubs, larger stations, outline stations, East, West all had those who voted yes. As is the case with any adverse agreement everyone voted against it. The end result is the majority of the membership voted "yea" and ultimately chose their fate. Lesson learned. Question is... now that we are in section 6 negotiations will the District Leadership and the NC allow this membership to vote again on inferior contractual language or have they learned from past mistakes. IMO... this is the task at hand for both the NC but even more so the District Leadership. Additionally, it's difficult to compare and assess Transition Agreements and Bankruptcy Final Offers to Section 6 Tentative Agreements. Comparing apples to oranges. Time will tell. I only hope all members... wheather they work in hubs, large stations, outline stations, east or west, our NC and District Leadership have learned from past mistakes. If not... history is sure to repeat itself.

 

[ograc]

charlie youre right that the west and phx all voted for this last contract the 08 one only bec they say the raise then people like freedom complain that the cities out west went out the door all bec they just cared for that money without reading the entire t/a in its entirity scope is very important

as for US i have to think that given that US and AA are merging that should put the IAM in a stronger position to negogiate a better contract and not similar to the UA. if the district came back with a ua type of deal for us i could be wrong but i think it would be shot down i know i would be a NO VOTE on it

orgac, ive been told yesterday and the day before that my particular grievance is being debated by both the company n their lawyers... however my shop steward told me that given how the grievance was written the airline would be a hell of a lot better off at settling the grievance in the mean time i continue to text frank daily sometimes more often than not ill resend it a few times til i get a response if that constituts harassing or something then too bad bec as an AGC its their job to keep us informed at least i believe it is

robbedagain,
The fact remains the majority of the membership voted "yea". Shows ya what we know. As stated to Charlie... the important thing is has the NC and the District learned from past mistakes? Time will tell. Don't feel bad about continual texting to Frank. My grievant and I have had to make repeated calls to Gil to prod Frank along. Although the grievance is now two years + waiting for arbitration the grievant spoke directly to Frank for the first time a little over a month ago. Last known status: Being reviewed by the company's lawyers and he'll keep us updated. Sound familiar?