F/a Sick Calls And No Contacts

Mark,

A disgrace? And management takes no responsibility what so ever cutting staff so rediculously that they cannot cover an irregular operation. So, you focus on 10 Reserves and the issue of sick becomes magnified 10 fold. So how many reserves were in PHW available in this first week of the month? You didn't answer the question. You only cite it took 15 calls to call someone out in the middle of the night. I ask, how fit were those who actually covered this trip, or did you not assess this? were they fatigued? Or don't you care? Should they have known to sleep during the day, for the rare possibility that they would be called to go out in the middle of the night instead of the day, when most International flights go out no later than 8 PM?

Do you know exactly the nature of the f/as sick? Those 4 you cite? Do you really? Or are you just guessing to validate your position on this board?I gave you the scenerio above for a reason. I told you that the company does not know this f/as is emotionally ill. Would the company understand this and make some kind of exception? Do pigs fly? What the hell are you smoke'in? Are all 4 f/as considered in the 1% you cite? You come on here in your first post as if this was the norm. Why would management change policy so drastically to go after 1% of the f/a population. You are not being forthright here, Mark. I am keenly intuative. Ask the senior execs up there in the palace how keenly aware I am of their "plan". If you are citing 1%, what kind of support are you trying to get on these boards? You sought me out? Did management send you for a reason, or are you just so innocently curious what I think?

You continue to insult my intelligence. You state that management is after only the 1% of infracters. You must really think I am a stupid person. Management is after the employees. Period. There are TOO many damn management personnel and they have to "justify" their jobs so they make up these unrealistic "not-doable" policies to keep themselves employed.

Example...we use to have only 1 Senior Director of Inflight who answered directly to the CEO. There hadn't been a VP in inflight since Hansbury back in 1994. We as f/as attendants were emotionally healthy, morale and spirits were high and loved our jobs and company. We also as an airline "soared" to the top in profits, thank you very much, indeed. Now, in his place there are 6 base managers and extra manager for the restructuring agreement implementation. We have a Director of base operations and a manager of base operations and an extra base manager in PHL In-flight, plus a VP of In-flight who never meets or communicates with the AFA MEC members collectively. In Labor/employee relations, we have 3 VPs and 1 Director of Labor relations and 1 manager of Labor relations. All these Relations and no one relates to Labor. I find that comical, but than they are working because they have made all these NEW policies for 5,400 f/as down from 10,300. We have more layers than we ever did before because in your eye...its that damn 1%.

How quickly you forget this, just because in 2001 the "plan" that the execs and Board had didn't pan out for their gain. Too bad too sad.

Now, this managment has gotten way over zealous with their cost savings and you all have the belief that their should be NO COST to doing business. NONE!

I won't give you one more f/a. Not one on my watch sir if I can help it. I will fight those in mangement who steal our language, force us into the grievance arena. As I stated to you before...there is no middle ground now. I sit perched on the far LEFT side of the equation and you sit comfortably perched on the "dark side".
 
Hey Gang, Can't ya just feel the love? Time out.... group hug... mellow, mellow..... ahhhhh. Isn't that better?

Mark, you're correct !
Piney Bob, you're correct!
PITbull, bless ya hon, you're correct!

How can this be?

Mark... Was this a fair situation to the schedulers, and most importantly, our customers... oh no.
Bob... Is there dead wood? Yep. Is there abuse? Absolutely.
PITbull... Should you defend your workgroup... Yes & you do it very eloquently.

WE have a mess. This group wants to point at that group, that looks over to find someone else to blame, who looks for another scapegoat, eventually someone's sweet lovable dog gets kicked cause kaka do roll downhill. And I don't like that cause I'm a doglover, and I care about people too sometimes. :)

Any one of us, ANY ONE of us can find numerous examples of OTHER groups that have let us down and made our jobs tougher. It is frustrating, demoralizing, destructive, and non productive. It takes our focus off what it should be on because we are so beat up and wore out we have to vent.

IMO, at U the focus is "Who's to Blame?"

IMO, it should be "What is the problem and how do we fix it?"

Mark, its a legal duty of a union rep to defend an accused represented employee. It is called the "Duty of Fair Representation" and you better darn well do it. It is NOT the responsibility of a UNION to weed out the dead wood, the abusers. This is the reason we have supervisors and management. Supervison and management should be proactive, pro-employee, pro-company, and not a constant game of CYA and the license to abuse it has become. The tone of that is set at the top.

Bob -- yes there are people who try to slow others down so they won't look bad. There are people who coast. I agree with your concept of personal responsibility and accountability.

This is what 1st line supervision is paid to do... supervise, document, and discipline. The Union is a agent to bargain collectively for their group and represent them individually and as a group

IF supervision did their job, 1) the slackers would not make their probationary period, when they have no union protection 2) Abuse and non performance would be documented and discipline would be on a fair, progressive scale. 3) Bad apples would not be around long enough to be high seniority screw ups.

Sure you are p***ed off, but focus it not on PITbull, but on the years of mismanagement that has created this trainwreck. How did we get so damn dysfunctional?

I also think its a bit unfair to give such specific identifying information about what is a possible disciplinary action that has not yet been investigated, much less resolved. This very public forum is not the proper venue for that. Although the general public won't be able to identify the individuals, more people than should be will be able to. But you were torqued and you unloaded. It happens.

OK... so what is the problem, and how do we fix it.

The problem is we are a ship adrift on a turbulent sea, and we have no Captain, no rudder, and we're taking on water. We have no leadership, no positive reinforcement, no incentive to attack problems in a creative and innovative way.

How do we fix it? First, the powers to be must want to fix it. I don't think they do, I think it suits their aims to inspire bickering, negativity, and keep us at each other's throats so we don't see what it is they are doing. They are eroding our futures, one slice at a time while we throw stones at each other and fuss. They need to make an honest commitment to our customers, employees and stockholders to be people of integrity and accountability.

How do we and the new guy or gal fix it... another thread, another time.

BTW -- Ain't no crackpipe in PITbull's life.
 
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How many times do I have to tell you that we had the staffing for the flight irregularity? 10 reserves, 8 positions, 4 people actually came to work. This is one high profile scenario I chose to elevate for discussion because it proves a point, just as you incessantly rant about every person that comes into your office and type cast them as the norm. The point being that we continue to protect the dead wood!

As for the condition of the reserve crew members let me say this. If I am a PHW F/A, I know that my primary working hours are in the middle of the night. I knew that signing onto the division. If I am a reserve F/A, I should know that if anything is going to go wrong, it will be in the middle of the night. Most crews don't go illegal until midnight, thus forcing us to recrew the flight. If you know you are on duty, then you should plan for the possibility of being called to work. You knew the hours when you signed up to be on the ITD.

Do I know if these 4 F/A's were sick or not, no. Do yo know they were? If they were sick why didn't they call scheduling to be taken off active status? Why wait until you are called for a trip? Would I consider them a part of the 1%, not until I reviewd their past work history. If this is a pattern problem, then yes. That wouldn't be for me to determine. I can say that things do not look good in their favor. But the issue of abuse needs to be addressed. If they were sick then they should have called scheduling BEFORE being assigned a trip. At this point they are refusing to fly in my eyes.

You ask why management would change policy so drastically to go after 1%. Perhaps it is because that 1% costs us money. Let's say in the past we had 10% of reserves not making guarantee each month, or even 5%. Now the objective is to ensure that as many reserves as possible break guarantee, while still providing adaquate coverage. why all of a sudden is this a problem? Because the abusers can't hide as well anymore. Does this mean there is a staffing issue? Nope. It just means that everyone should be towing their part of the line. Even when we were canceling trips in July, it wasn't an issue of not having enough f/a's it was a pilot issue. Do I think we could use more employees in all departments? Yes, but not to the level that you are suggesting.

I feel sorry for the people that are next on the furlough list. Knowing that you will continue to defend the dead wood is pretty sad. I woudl prefer to keep the employees that want to work, instead of defending the ones that don't. But hey, it isn't my money that is paying for it. I don't pay dues to the AFA.
 
Mark,

I need to hear it as many times as you have the energy to write it.

I don't know the history or nature of these 4 sick calls. Neither do you. I can tell you that many reserves would not wait until called to say they are acutally sick IF the new sick policy was not so damn unfair and pushes the reserve NOT to break guarantee, as their time is capped if they call in sick. Why call in if you may not get called from sched while your ill. Makes plenty sense to me. Before, reserves would call in when ill and know they could use their "banked time" to make their time and thus make themselves whole. NOT ANY MORE.

You guys have now the audacity to complain that the f/as are trying to protect their ability to make their time in the month if they happen to be ill. MANAGEMENT HAS MADE THIS IMPOSSIBLE.

Mangement created this beast, now change it, and you won't have the scenerio above that you cite.
 
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  • #50
Dilligas - great intervention. This is not an issue for us to fight on a discussion thread. Ultimately, choices were made and the customer paid the price. I get so sick and tired of hearing how bad management is, but employees never take responsibility for their own actions.

ultimately this will now be decided somewhere off this board.

I will never change PitBull's mind, and she will never convince me to change mine. We both must be Aries because we are both so stubborn. Her passion is to try and protect the rights of her employees - which she does very well. My passion is to ensure that the customers are taken care of with the least amount of inconvenience as possible. When I see an injustice to our customers, I get all fired up, just as PitBull does when she sees and injustice to her employees, she gets equally fired up.

Let's put our swords down, walk away, have a brewski and talk about something else. :up:
 
Mark,

Not so fast.... We as employees care just as much if not MORE than mangement professes to care about our customers. After all, we are on the frontline; not management, and provide the quality customer care that return the loyal customer back to U. You can not argue that!

FYI:

I am a Taurus....the bull no less. LOL

Good night! ;)
 
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I said that I get all fired up over customer issues. I don't profess to speak for management.

A ram and a bull.....no wonder we bump heads so much!
 
MarkMyWords said:
Dilligas - great intervention.
Thank you, Mark. Was that a Dr. Phil moment or what? No one asked, but here's some of my favorite Dr. Phil 'isms:

"you need to kick that ole boy to the curb" (Dave?)

"gonna line 'em up like crows on a clothesline (Cockroaches?)

"we're burning daylight here, people" (Marketing?)

"What in the hell were you thinkin'?" (all of us reviewing our "careers")

"Jack it up and go" (censored by me ;) )

"What a load of crap" (too much to choose from)


Ya know Mark, you and PITbull share the same passion. It's a passion to do the right thing. Don't minimize her and our commitment to our customers. The Piney Bobs of the world feed our families, we're grateful and appreciative. You're just seeing the picture from different perspectives. I'm not into the Astrological thing, but I seem to recall Aries & Taurus make one fiery passionate combo, (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) but they just can't stand each other. But I could be wrong. haha

I've got a great line just begging to be typed, but I know it will never see daylight if I do... oh well. Every time I say it in my mind I laugh. Sigh ...Have a good one.
 
MarkMyWords said:
I get so sick and tired of hearing how bad management is, but employees never take responsibility for their own actions.
To every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. So, management screws over the employees like there is no tomorrow, "and there may not be due to their heavy handed actions" and employees react just like any other human being with any sense of worth and self respect would do. Give it up Mark, playing the whipping boy for this pathetic management team makes you look really sad.
 
MarkMyWords Posted on Sep 15 2003, 05:59 AM

If they were sick why didn't they call scheduling to be taken off active status? Why wait until you are called for a trip?

That's simple, and I don't even work at U. If the sick policy is such that employees (f/a's in particular) are being harrassed for all infractions, why would they call in sick BEFORE they were assigned a trip? To do so would mean an immediate talking to by a supervisor. It is safer for them to wait because they may not be assigned a trip, and therefore will not have to be abused by their supervisor. Just my opinion of the situation.

Also wanted to clear this up....someone stated that UAL reserves are in two seperate pools (international and domestic) but that is no longer true. We have one reserve pool......assignments are given by number of hours worked. He/she with the lowest time for the month gets the first trip that pops up...simple. All reserves are required to have a valid passport and visas to all countries that their base flys.
 
USAirBoyA330 said:
I had to pop some popcorn for this. The kitty litter is flying everywhere. :p
And the litter box is full.

Does anyone have the "Cliff's Notes" on this, or should I just wait for the movie?

GEEEEZ...there is a lot of typing to read on this one...lol
 
Mark My Words,

Get off the cross honey, someone else needs the wood!

As is so typical of Siegel’s Management style, there must be a scapegoat for your constant blunderings, this time your focus is on the FA’s. There is no way 4 or 5 FA’s are responsible for the debacle that resulted on the night of September 12th. Responsibility lies totally with Upper Management. Here is the OTHER side of the story, along with some FACTS to ponder. Just remember that it was you who wanted to air your dirty laundry on a national website:


1. FCO returned to PHL, because of a mechanical. Due to legalities another crew was needed. There were not enough PHW FA’s who were AVL for 3-days so scheduling was calling those who already had future trips for the next day. FACT: At least 2 of the 4 FA’s from PHW were taken off of awarded trips to crew FCO. However, there were also no less than 4 PHW Supervisors qualified to fly International but who were not contacted, more on that later. The replacement flight attendants were called around 2300, but that is not the way the computer reads. It shows that the trip was not covered until 0134, one-hour AFTER most of the called out FA's had already checked in. Computer has the new departure time at 0551 but was probably later because one crewmember recalls checking their watch and it was wheels up at 0628. Why the discrepancies in the computer? Was PHW so short staffed that management could not afford for another crew to go illegal? Was scheduling so fearful of Upper Management’s cutthroat justice that someone got a little creative? What do you think the FAA would think if it were the case that U is messing with the actual computer times?

2. If management knew of the mechanical, why didn’t they immediately start calling out FA’s and FA Supervisors? You stated yourself that they did not call out CLT FA’s until midnight. At that late hour why wasn’t management a little more pro active in giving the FA’s a realistic notification time? You know the demographics of this group, many of the FA’s are single mothers and it would be extremely hard for them to get someone to come to their homes, in the middle of the night, and care for their children for next three days on such short notice. Don’t even say they are reserves and should know better. Most put their lives on hold while previously on reserve for many, many years. After being line holders for the last several years, they felt it was safe to start their families, but that was BS, “Before Siegel.â€￾ Now they find themselves again back on reserve desperately trying to readjust.

3. The FA contract, under Priority of Trip Assignment states that “ Co-Fly Participantsâ€￾ holding a system seniority number (Flight Attendants who are SUPERVISORS) should be called before causing a cancellation. (Which is exactly what one can expect when you have to charter a plane and fly CLT FA’s to PHL). But the supervisors were not called and assigned the trip, which would have saved both time and money. Why? Because a couple of months ago (July?) when scheduling did follow the proper procedure and called the PHL supervisors who are also flight attendants, ALL REFUSED. Were they threatened, reprimanded or terminated? NO. As I understand it one of them gave the excuse that she could not find her uniform. Others said 90-minutes did not give them enough time. With this kind of example to follow you should be grateful that anyone showed at all! In all fairness, when the supervisors were called again several days later, again due to short staffing, two of the PHL supervisors actually did go out and fly to help protect the operation. But that left the two PHL base managers short staffed of supervisors. This did not sit well as they did not have enough supervisors to dole out the discipline that they are fast becoming notorious for. It was made Crystal City Clear that PHL supervisors were not going to follow the contractual process. Had management done what management is suppose to do the problem would not have been so magnified or costly. BTW: Supervisors are also to remain current and fly one trip every quarter, which is also being ignored. There are 4 PHL Supervisors who are ITD qualified and who should have been called and assigned FCO. It was Management’s decision not to use all of their resources, to furlough so many and it was their decision to let our passengers sit around a terminal with nothing open and nothing to eat waiting for a Charter that should never have been needed!

4. The PHL flight attendants who were called out as replacements sat around the airport from approximately 12:30 until they started boarding at a little after 5 AM. Contractually they should have been given a room. They were not.

5. Contractually, international flight attendants are to receive a meal. There were NO meals for this crew to eat either throughout the night or for the 8-hour and 10-minute flight they had in front of them. After much consternation and a few chosen words, they did manage to get 4 cereals and a bag of bagels to split among the pilots and FA’s (a total of 11 crew members!) Remember, that everything in the airport was closed at this time. Management’s treatment of the U employees, since Siegel, has been deplorable, this is just one small example.

6. You mention the passenger’s; well let’s talk about them for just a minute. First, they also had to sit around all night and into the early hours of the morning without food or comfort. Once on their SECOND attempt to get to Rome, the only thing put in coach for them to eat was a "Dave’s Donut" for the first service and a snack similar to the old Metro Jet brick snacks for the arrival service. This was not a given, the FA’s had to beg to even get that for the passengers and have reported back that many of these passengers were coming to the back galley throughout the flight to beg for another donut. Envoy is another story. There were not enough meals for Envoy, so much like the biblical “loaves and fishesâ€￾ the FA’s had to cut and divide the remaining meals so there would be enough to go around. MANAGEMENT had ALL night to address these issues but again failed to do their job. Many of the passengers on this flight have already stated that they will never use US Airways again. I will be surprised if we ever see any of them on our flights in the future.

BTW: Tired and hungry crewmembers, is a safety factor that should have been addressed, but that would mean this management gave a tinker's damn about their employees. What will the FAA, DOT and Labor Board think?

7. At 4 AM the FA’s still did not know if the plane was airworthy, so I am not sure how you could have gotten the flight out at 3 AM as stated in one of your posts.

8. The replacement crew went out with only 7 regular FA’s plus one LODO, which also breaks the intent of the FA contract and the same thing happened again last night.

9. The flights were full, understaffed and those FA’s had to handle not one but two medical emergencies, one, going to FCO and the other on the way back. Both sick passengers were vomiting and had flu-like symptoms. Before leaving PHL the FA’s told the company that the passenger was too sick and should not go, but they were ignored and management had the sick passenger boarded anyway. On the way back 3 doctors had to work on that pax because of dehydration. One of the Dr.s spent the entire flight standing in the back taking care of the sick passenger. Med link was called and the med kit in the cockpit was retrieved. Both Pax needed the attention of at least one FA on a flight already severely understaffed.


Now that we have cleared up some of the background that you so conveniently left out, let me attempt to address some of your concerns about the FA’s who could not go when called.

1. NCT: There was two NCT’s (no contacts) reported the night of the 12th. You left out the fact that one of those NCT’s was given to a FA who only had ONE day available to fly before going into days off. Remember that all international trips are 3-days long. Also remember that it was fairly late at night and all ITD trips had departed. A call could have been missed while sleeping or scheduling could have dialed a wrong number, which happens more often than you would think, did anyone think to call more than once, just in case?

If scheduling was calling FA’s with only 1-day AVL and FA’s who already had future trip assignments and reassigning them (recall that there were at least two), then PHW was WAY UNDER STAFFED, which is not the fault of the FA’s but lies entirely with MANAGEMENT.

2. SICK: You are way too quick to pre-judge and convict. Many of our cleaners have been furloughed, resulting in A/C's that are breeding grounds for mold and germs. The FA rest seats have been used in the past to put both deceased and sick passengers on. The medical is so high one can no longer afford to go to the doctor and if they do go, they can no longer afford to get their scripts filled. FA's are coughed on, sneezed on, spit on, handed dirty diapers and snotty Kleenex. Often the a/c does not even have soap to wash your hands with (why many carry their own). Point is FA’s DO get sick. MMW you are very WRONG about what FA’s get when they call in sick. Although FA’s receive 5 contractual sick hours per month to offset the loss of pay while out sick, under this new management and their new sick policy, FA’s especially reserves cannot use their sick hours. FA's are either significantly penalized or lose the sick pay protection altogether, in particular the reserves. Why would one call in sick early when the only thing they will receive in return is harassment and abuse from the same supervisors who are not current and will not fly when needed?

A reserve can only claim sick up to their guarantee but they are also required to meet their minimum option or they get more harassment. A reserves option minimum is at least 9-hours MORE than their guarantee. If a non-option reserve wants to fly to their option maximum, they are 19-hours above their guarantee and what they can claim. You do see the problem don’t you? For most reserves, they either have to "Fly Back" the trip they had to call in sick on or they must make due with a really short paycheck. While a reserve’s sick bank is increased by 5-hours every month, under this new policy it can rarely be used. There are two reasons why FA's call in sick, they are either physically ill or they had a personal emergency. With the 20-25% cuts in income taken to save this company there are few if any who can afford to lose a trip on a whim. Yes, a PER/VAC should be used for a personal emergency but with the constant short staffing they are almost always denied. The only time a FA can get one is when management arbitrarily assigns it to a FA for their own purpose, which was NOT what they were intended for. Yet another abuse of the FA contract.


The Facts

There are approximately 140 Reserves FA’s on the Philly International division. Even with short staffing down from 8 to 6 (often 5) on the 767 and down from 12/13 to 9 (often 8) on the A330. This is not enough to cover while also protecting the operation. Trips went out short again last night and this is only the middle of the month. CLT FA’s are deadheaded to PHL on a regular basis to make up for the shortages. Other than hiring the 7-seat (?) CHARTER, the trip on the 12th was pretty much business as usual. Speaking of the 7-seat (?) King Air Charter, I understand the pilots were so wet behind the ears they needed a “hall passâ€￾ from their teacher to take the flight. Can anyone tell me if this A/C is 121 qualified? If not, management broke the FA agreement yet again.

On the night in question, out of the approximate 140 international FA’s, 67 of those were already working or had a trip for the next day. 9 showed to have fewer days available than the trip flies. 17 were on VAC. 29 were on days off. 2 were NCT and as stated above one of those was only good for 1-day. It appears that the one FA who was available for 4-days was not even called. One was leveled (restricted from flying). 6 were out sick, (this number includes the two who called in that night) two show AFA and one shows PCL. 5 were already OT (out of time). That makes 140. At least two of the crew used that night had to give up their future trip to cover FCO. So MMW, where are the 10 AVL FA’s you speak of? Or am I missing something?

You want to know how many Reserves are needed? More that what you presently have that is an absolute certainty. We have been as high as 40% in the past, we are now down to 20%or less In addition, the trips are extremely understaffed. If last nights Shannon or Paris have a FA who gets sick or hurt, those return flights will be delayed or have to cancel altogether. TOO many have been furloughed. Both moral and service are suffering. You have not yet seen the full impact of the crap service we must now present to our passengers. Word will get out and our passengers will go elsewhere. Split the difference until you can get your act together. Bring back enough FA’s so that each base and each division has at least a 30% reserve force to handle irregular ops and critical situations. You are spending a dollar to save a dime and it shows.

You paint a pretty grim picture when you speak about the U PHL FA’s. I am not surprised, as you either are management or are one of their hired guns sent out to post stories like this one. Maybe you are Mr. Mini Lorenzo himself. Whatever, either or, since Siegel came to town it has been managements focus to pit one employee against another, (too bad he is unable to run this company with the same expertise.) It is easier to bust unions if the employees are at odds blaming and bickering with each other. What disturbs me is those of you employees who would even listen to a guy in bed with CCY bad mouth one of our own on a website. This is exactly management’s strategy. Fortunately, more and more employees are beginning to figure it out. Management can run but can no longer hide their ineptness.

Bottom line, Siegel, Glass and Cohen have furloughed too many in an attempt to make up for lack of promised profit. Everyone has a boss, and that also goes for Siegel. His plan is NOT working and he has lost the trust and support of the only group who could bail him out…the employees. The man and his cronies are in trouble and looking for somewhere to place the blame. But the U employees know where the blame lies...with this new MANAGEMENT!

They will never have the gumption to face their folly, so it is up to all employees to make sure the U BOD hears the truth. Does anyone have Bronner’s or the other BOD members e-mail addresses? If yes, please post on this website.

Reservations, ticket agents, gate agents, flight attendants, baggage handlers, cleaners, mechanics, etc., are all doing double and even triple duty. Management keeps going back to the well but the employee’s pockets have been picked dry. The employees are doing their part; it is UPPER MANAGEMENT that is not holding up their end of the bargain.


Fellow Employees, stand together, support the IAM’s effort to keep management from out sourcing their jobs, stand by your FA’s who are belittled and slandered by management on this forum, support the CWA, ALPA and TWU when ever they need you. As one poster is fond of quoting, “We must all hang together or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.â€￾ Hang on to those words and hang together, it may be the only thing that will save this great company of ours from this management.
 
OK, enough talk about who did this and who did that

we need to fix this problem and move on...

I feel sorry for the poor customer/passenager on that flight?

and what about the ground people dealing with it....

and another 2 cents for whats is worth....I know of a f/a who called in sick for the

month of August and nothing was wrong with her Pitbull....

And another that names there boat "Liquior Money"...oopps thats another story
 
The boat named"Liqour Money" and/or "Headsets" is one of those airline urban legends. I've been told the same story by friends from Delta and American and also read it in a book by a Pan Am flight attendant. It sounds a little far fetched to me.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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