European Polution Law

[777 fixer]

They call them gas turbines for a reason.

Well dell both you and I know all about jet engines and going BK.

 

[delldude]

Well dell both you and I know all about jet engines and going BK.

I hear they make good boat anchors especially jumbo's....LOL

Gas turbines are real big in West Virginia and surrounding areas....they put a small gen station near where I hide on weekends with 4 or 5 JT8 twin packs. They pretty much stand alone.

 

[tech2101]

I can think of no quicker way to go bankrupt than using a jet engine fueled by JET A to generate power.

P.S.I know what you were refering to.

They do run on other fuels. I have a huge compressor station about 2 miles from me that provides gas to several powerplants in our state. I believe the generators are run by a TF-34 family engine.

 

[delldude]

Hey, if the merde ever hits the turbofan, I think Army and navy might buy a few.....

 

[Euro Meatball]

I would have thought once I started talking about Airbus it would have been obvious.

Here's the thing about taxing engine manufactureres. The EU can't tax GE and PW engines that are not sold to EU carriers now can they? Much easier to tax Airbus and you will make more money doing so.

Still don't understand your point. Why Airbus, for building Airplanes? Does Aiirbus build its own engines?.
The big mistake is I have been calling this a Tax. But what it is, is a FINE, for creating more carbon than that OUR law allows. It's a bit like a speeding fine. You go over the limit and you get caught, you pay a fine no matter which country you are from.
I, and most of the Europeans, would preferr that you were not fined, and are within the carbon limit of Europe. The engine manufacters have had at least seven years to try and improve their engines to get nearer meeting the standard required, but it would seem that they have done little. When they do, then there will be no fine to the airlines.

 

[delldude]

Still don't underswtnad your point. Why Airbus for building Airplnaes? Does Aiirbus build its own engines?.
Maybe the solution is not to call it a tax, but what it is .A FINE for creating more carbon than that OUR law allows. It's a bit like a speeding fine. You go over the limit and you get caught, you pay a fine no matter which country you are from or your driving in. I, and most of the Europeans, would preferr that you were not fined and stay within the carbon limit in europe. The engine manufacters have had at least seven years to try and improve their engines to get nearer meeting the standard required. When they do, then there will be no fine.

What does this carbon limit do?

 

[Euro Meatball]

To those, that are out there, somewhere. I know, I’ve brain washed, I’m a swine, a Euro Marxist, etc . But you really need to find out who are your friends and allies are, no matter how imperfect.


“China, India Mount Opposition Against EU Aviation Carbon Curbs
By Bloomberg News - Jan 4, 2012 8:43 AM ET”

From Wikipedia
List of countries by 2010 emissions estimates CDIAC released preliminary 2010 estimates for limited number of countries. Following table is listing annual CO2 emissions estimates (in thousands of CO2 metric tonnes) from these estimates for top emitting countries
World 33,508,901
China 8,240,958
United States 5,492,
India 2,069,738
Russia 1,688,688
Japan 1,138,432
Germany 762,543

So we are talking about the top 3

From Reuters report
Opposing nations say the plan would infringe a "cardinal principle of state sovereignty" by basing its charges on the distance flown by each flight, which means calculations would include foreign airspace, in violation of a 1944 pact that gives each country exclusive authority over its skies. (Yea. Our European skies)
A good point. But (and I’ ve checked this out with the pilots.) It seems that about 30%, if not more, of ones fuel is used in the first couple of hours. That is for take off and climb to cruise altitude. Most of it would be in EU airspace. Maybe this could be negociated

“26 countries have said it is unjust, and inconsistent with international law. And that's just the ones signing the ICAO statement “.
And who are they? Please see see list above.(note that Germany is paying it’s fine and doing something about it. Most of the polution is from the old East Germany)

Taken from a UK news report at Durban Climate Change Conference 2011.
The EU is leading a ‘high ambition coalition’ pushing for a new deal to stop global warming, Chris Huhne, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary has said.
He said at least 120 (Not just 26 backing the poluters)countries are backing the EU’s plan for a legally binding treaty by 2015 that would commit all countries to cutting carbon.
But the world’s three biggest emitters, the US, China and India (I’ve Seen these guys somewhere before) are unwilling to be part of a treaty they feel would limit economic growth.
Even as the Eurozone struggles with a financial crisis at home, Mr Huhne insisted the EU are leading the world.
“It is increasingly clear that the European Union is speaking for the vast majority of participants in the [meeting] and that we have some pretty fundamental political changes in that there is now a very visible high ambition coalition that stretches across the developed world, Europe and the developing countries,” he said.
Taken from Bloomberg report
The EU, which wants to lead the global fight against climate change, decided that aviation should become a part of its carbon program after airline discharges in Europe doubled over two decades and international organizations failed to enact emission curbs.
Started in 2005, the European emissions trading system, known also as the EU ETS, imposes pollution quotas on more than 11,000 utilities and manufacturers. Emitters that produce less carbon dioxide than their quota can sell surplus allowances, and those exceeding their limits must buy additional permits or pay a fine of 100 euros per ton of CO2.
The European Commission, the 27-nation bloc’s regulatory arm, has repeatedly said that while its preferred choice is a worldwide solution to cut greenhouse gases from aviation, it won’t give up the expansion of the ETS to cover airlines. The EU law offers a possibility of exempting incoming flights from a particular country if that nation implements equivalent measures to cut pollution from its air transport sector.
EU law envisages penalties in case an operator doesn’t comply with the rules and foresees the possibility of imposing an operating ban on an airline if it persistently fails to meet its legal obligations, said Isaac Valero-Ladron, climate spokesman for the commission.
“We hope, however, that this very last resort will never need to be applied,” he said today by e-mail.
“not every "law" is just.”
So we are not planning to kill a few million Americans. In fact, if you follow our lead, they might live longer and not die a painful death.

 

[delldude]

Tell you what Meat Ball.......you should watch who you diss......those nasty Chinese are going to bail the EuroMarxists out of their financial doom when the time comes. They already were tendering offers to Angie and Nickie.

 

[delldude]

Taken from a UK news report at Durban Climate Change Conference 2011.
The EU is leading a ‘high ambition coalition’ pushing for a new deal to stop global warming, Chris Huhne, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary has said.

GW which has been proven to be a boat load of merde.....

What these global warming wonks need is a coupe good volcanic events then what?

Ooooo yeah, tax Mother Nature for an unregulated output of carbon..

When they going to cap the amount of CO2 that we exhale?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Oh sure, I'll just run right out and call me Congress Critter & tell him,

Yo, I was just talking to this guy in Europe and he's arrogant enough to insist that as a sovereign nation we follow the rest of the world (in his eyes that's Europe) in all things having to do with the junk science of global warming. See Mr Congress Critter I ain't buying the manure he's selling as IMO the only reason for this tax is to collect additional monies from non EU residents in order to prop up their failed economic system and fiat currency. I mean seriously they can't even prosper enough to pay for their own National Defense.

In between work and trying to get Ron Paul elected I'll jump right on this for ya. On a side note the European Union must be having a Sh*t Canary of the prospects of a non interventionist President like Ron Paul. You do know he'd tell you to stick your junk science and tax right up your arse.

 

[777 fixer]

Still don't understand your point. Why Airbus, for building Airplanes? Does Aiirbus build its own engines?.

I thought it was rather simple and if you cannot understand it then no amount of explaining with help you figure it out.

 

[777 fixer]

The big mistake is I have been calling this a Tax. But what it is, is a FINE, for creating more carbon than that OUR law allows. It's a bit like a speeding fine. You go over the limit and you get caught, you pay a fine no matter which country you are from.

And what exactly does this law/fine accomplish. By your own admission it really does nothing to help the envirnment. Yet for some strange reason that's not a problem as long as it does not end up in someoens back pocket.

Speaking of money you do realize that this affect Euopeans more than it does Americans or Chinese? It increases your cost of living a lot more than it does mine. And for what, so some EU politicos can delude themselves into thinking they are saving the envirnment? Show me in which this law/fine is going to accomplish anything other than filling the coffers with more money.

 

[777 fixer]

I, and most of the Europeans, would preferr that you were not fined, and are within the carbon limit of Europe. The engine manufacters have had at least seven years to try and improve their engines to get nearer meeting the standard required, but it would seem that they have done little. When they do, then there will be no fine to the airlines.

What exactly is the standard required and do you have any evidence to supporrt your claim tha tthey have done little to meet it? I'm going to say you don't. Engine manufacturers have invested billions into making more efficent engines. Pratt has invested heavily in it's geared turbo fan which promises to decrease fuel burn by around 10-15%. GE has come up with the GENex for the 787 and 747-800. RR with the Trent 1000. They did not do this becasue the airlines were on them about fines from the EU. They did this becasue airlines want to spend less money on fuel.

 

[777 fixer]

To those, that are out there, somewhere. I know, I’ve brain washed, I’m a swine, a Euro Marxist, etc . But you really need to find out who are your friends and allies are, no matter how imperfect.


“China, India Mount Opposition Against EU Aviation Carbon Curbs
By Bloomberg News - Jan 4, 2012 8:43 AM ET”

China is refusing to let their airlines pay the tax. What does the EU plan to do about this? The EU will look really stupid if they make everyone BUT the Chinese pay the tax.

 

[777 fixer]

The EU, which wants to lead the global fight against climate change, decided that aviation should become a part of its carbon program after airline discharges in Europe doubled over two decades and international organizations failed to enact emission curbs.
Started in 2005, the European emissions trading system, known also as the EU ETS, imposes pollution quotas on more than 11,000 utilities and manufacturers. Emitters that produce less carbon dioxide than their quota can sell surplus allowances, and those exceeding their limits must buy additional permits or pay a fine of 100 euros per ton of CO2.
.

This statement just proves the the Euopeans really are not serious about this. If emission have doubled over the past decade making airlines/passengers pay extra is not going to fix that. Can't deny that now can you? The quickest way yo solve the emissions problame would be to ground all domestic flights in Europe. Not that it would ever happen because Europe is a bit two faced when it comes to this subject.