European Polution Law

[delldude]

Yea right . And where did the Saddam bio-chemical program go?

I though Bush lied to all the EuroMarixsts...

SA already gave Israel approval for fly overs Meathead.
Enemy of my enemy?

Where .. in Europe?

How about Qatar, Kuwait and Navy Sea Lift Command? To mentiona few...CEG-E also

And his troops are waiting in the States? Of course they might be in Europe somewhere. And that's if they haven't all left, and gone back to the States because Uncle Sam doesn't like our pollution tax .

Something like 50,000 in Kuwait training as we speak....

Yea right . Another change of subject. By the way how are your Spanish classes getting on ?
What is a WASP and what % of them are there? What are the rest of you?

Spanish is fair, how's your Farsi?

WASP's are all in Beantown Meathead.....

 

[Euro Meatball]

Time for bed..another early . Think I have the joys of United tomorrow. A very very very different airline. Quite unique (not in the best sort of way). I will have to refreshed and on my toes for this ordeal

Sparrowhawk. Beer might be the only thing we agree on ... or not, but is for some other time
http://www.beermania.be/sales/bush.htm
http://www.schneider-weisse.de/index.php?lang=en&tpl=brauerei.gesternheute.geschichte

Let us hope that sense is seen or there will be many body bags

 

[777 fixer]

If you wish to see the start of this subject please go to AA forum "Flying to Europe just got more interesting!"

I am not an eco warrior or very green. I try to evaluate what I see and what I think I know, and then come to a conclusion. Pollution is not a natural or good thing. The using up of the earth resources at the rate we are, is not a good thing. If the Euro carbon tax will help, I don’t know. In a sense, that is not important, in light of the political tax issue on flights over Europe.
I had to research, and found a web site that compares what is a liberal and what is a conservative in the US. Yes and proud. I do not beleave that it is right that bankers and CEOs should walk away with my hard earned cash.

How much does the US fossil industry spends paying off politicians, ops!! I’m mean lobby, so that they can “get the message over” to the voters? (= brainwash)

I sometimes have doubts about Democracy, especially what it has become, and where it’s going. For good or for bad, Democracy is what have, for the present.

Now, the bottom line. I am told that USA is Democracy .We in Europe think we’re Democracies. 27 of us have banded together to form the EU. We rarely agree on much.
But an effort to reduce carbon emissions over OUR skies is something we’ve managed to agree on. If it will work, again I don’t know. We do NOT need permission from some of you, Hilary Clinton, the US Senate or the North American Airline industry (how much money did they spend lobbying?) to place this on OUR law books. So who really practices Dictatorship and Democracy?

So somebody wants us screwed. Not worth talking about, but fine.
You don’t want to fly to Europe. Fine
For the isolationists. You really need to get out a bit more. Book a flight to the moon and look at OUR planet Earth. Cheaper, buy a poster from NASA. But if you think that you’re the only one on the planet or the rest of us don't matter, fine
You don’t need Mass Transit systems in North America but belittle ours. Fine.
By the way, we have our very own Disney, which is served a high-speed rail link, as well as public transport. The French run it. But fine.
Some of you feel you should retaliate. How? By using the same law in the US. Fine
Democracy at work. Fine


Must be more lies from the libtards or I’ll just stick my head in sand




Visit www.citymayors.com/environment/polluted_uscities.html

Democracy at work
From wikipedia
"Energy lobby" is the umbrella term used to name the paid representatives of large fossil fuel (oil, gas, coal) and electric utilities corporations who attempt to influence governmental policy. So-called Big Oil companies such as ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Total S.A., Koch Industries, Chevron Corporation, and ConocoPhillips are amongst the largest corporations associated with the energy lobby. General Electric, Southern Co., First Energy, and the Edison Electric Institute are among the influential electric utilities corporations. Both electric companies and big oil and gas companies are consistently among the ten highest-spending industrial lobbyists.In the 2006 election cycle, oil and gas companies contributed over $19 million to political campaigns. 82% of that money went to Republican candidates, while the remaining 18% went to Democrats. In 2004, oil and gas companies contributed over $25 million to political campaigns, donating 80% of that money to Republicans. In the 2000 elections, over $34 million was contributed, with 78% of that money going to Republicans. Electric utilities also heavily favor Republicans; their contributions have recently ranged between $15-20 million. From 2003-2006, the energy lobby also contributed $58.3 million to state-level campaigns. By comparison, alternative energy interests contributed around half a million dollars in the same time period.

Question, why has'nt the EU gone after the "source" of the problem? That is Airbus and it's parent company EADS. Afterall thye are the ones making the aircraft are they not? Instead of going after the airlines maybe they should go after them. As it stands they only get money from airlines flying into Europe. By taxing let's say 5% of the list price of every aircraft Airbus builds they could make a heck of a lot of money. Don't stop there, why not 5% on every car BMW, Mercedes Benz, Opel, Volvo, Jaguar, VW etc builds in Europe?

Doubt that we would ever see that though. Why, simple politics. Before you rant about influence in politics here you might want to look in the mirror. I'm going to guess that what I've purposed will never see the light of day. Main reason,the companies I've mentioned have a lot more influence i.e. money than say an airline based in the USA or China. So do not pretend you are pure as the freshly fallen snow. Anyone one with half a brain can figure out that this added tax on airlines tickets is more about revenue than saving the enviornment

 

[Euro Meatball]

I though Bush lied to all the EuroMarixsts...

SA already gave Israel approval for fly overs Meathead.
Enemy of my enemy?




How about Qatar, Kuwait and Navy Sea Lift Command? To mentiona few...CEG-E also



Something like 50,000 in Kuwait training as we speak....



Spanish is fair, how's your Farsi?

WASP's are all in Beantown Meathead.....

So what happened to swine ...euromarxist etc? Have I progressed Meathead? Do you have list by your computer? So when are you shipping out ? Or are you an Armchair General happy to send the kids out?
Do you really hate everybody?

 

[delldude]

So what happened to swine ...euromarxist etc? Have I progressed Meathead? Do you have list by your computer? So when are you shipping out ? Or are you an Armchair General happy to send the kids out?
Do you really hate everybody?

Oh dear, I was posting w/o my glasses...I hate when I do that MeatBall.....B and H are very close in qwerty you know.

Dude, you are the one who drew first blood here.....

I'm not predjudiced, I hate everybody equally

 

[SparrowHawk]

So what happened to swine ...euromarxist etc? Have I progressed Meathead? Do you have list by your computer? So when are you shipping out ? Or are you an Armchair General happy to send the kids out?
Do you really hate everybody?

I would like the smug arrogant EU to begin to pay "Their Fair Share" After all Obama says the wealthy citizens here in the US are supposed to pay "Their Fair Share". The EU are VERY Wealthy countries by world standards so why don't we send you fellas an invoice for the costs the US and it's Military have incurred to protect your lazy arses? Seems fair to me.

Make the check out to:

The United States Department of the Treasury
United States of America
c/o Barack Obama. President & Commander in Chief
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC USA

 

[777 fixer]

So why do you think the US forces remained in Europe since WW2, I think 17 million, bless them. Has it been to defend West Europe? From who and why. Those pesky commies maybe? And who would have not had the battlefield in their backyard?
What do you think the Marshal plan was about? In essence, to build up German/European industry to fight the Soviets with you. You know, when we were Allies.

Would you have prefered at the end of WWII the US had just packed up and left? Leaving behind a Europe with a destroyed infrastructure,wrecked economies, millions of homeless and of course one of histories biggest mass murderers with the largest army in the world just on the other side of the border? Wonder if Joe Stalin could have resisted the temptation?

 

[777 fixer]

I wouldn't say Russia is long gone. Soviet Union maybe, Ivan wants his place at the table and Obama is bowing.

While I would not count Russia out of the game I would noit hype them up to much either. They are in the process of depopulating themselves via a low birth rate and people leaving the country. Just look at the Russian communities here in America. Their biggest export industry, oil, suffers from obsolete equipment and corruption. The only thing keeping their head above water is the high price of oil. However the chickens will come home to roost someday and what money they are making might disappear.

Add to that a corrupt authoritarian regime that has a habit of jailing, or killing, anyone who questions them. All of this does not make for long term stability.

 

[Euro Meatball]

Question, why has'nt the EU gone after the "source" of the problem? That is Airbus and it's parent company EADS. Afterall thye are the ones making the aircraft are they not? Instead of going after the airlines maybe they should go after them. As it stands they only get money from airlines flying into Europe. By taxing let's say 5% of the list price of every aircraft Airbus builds they could make a heck of a lot of money. Don't stop there, why not 5% on every car BMW, Mercedes Benz, Opel, Volvo, Jaguar, VW etc builds in Europe?

Doubt that we would ever see that though. Why, simple politics. Before you rant about influence in politics here you might want to look in the mirror. I'm going to guess that what I've purposed will never see the light of day. Main reason,the companies I've mentioned have a lot more influence i.e. money than say an airline based in the USA or China. So do not pretend you are pure as the freshly fallen snow. Anyone one with half a brain can figure out that this added tax on airlines tickets is more about revenue than saving the enviornment

I'm surprised that Airbus have not appeared before now. But at least we are on the original subject. Personally I'm a Boeing man.
I'm not sure if you understand how this law works (I'm maybe 60% sure)
This Law, to us in the airline business, only applies the use of EU airports. It also only applies to any flights that comes and goes from these airports, and to all airlines, no matter what their origin. Therefore, when an Air France flight goes to Capetown, they pay a carbon emission tax, if they are above a limit. They will pass that cost back to the pax on average cost per ticket. What you do in the States, is your business.
Again I'm not sure what you mean by "source" of the problem. In the first stage, EU industries have been paying Carbon Tax for sometime. This includes the automakers and Airbus In other words, they trade at a disadvantage.
The second stage applies Airlines and Marine (Ships and Ferries). As far as airplanes go, the source of carbon emissions are the engines. On Airbus aircraft, the CFM 56 which is 50% owned by GE. And I think up to A380, all the rest of the big fans were either P&W or GE. In Europe I think around 50% are airplanes are Boeing, and I can see them paying up.
Of the car makers, you forgot Ford And until recent times Opel was owned by GM and Jags by Ford. I think that both BMW and VW build their cars for your market in the USA . We also pay carbon tax on our fuel.

Yes, I do look at the mirror and some mornings, I don't like what I see. In Europe, we are very far from perfect. We have at last started to slap our politicians. We don't mind who they screw, but when we catch them with the fingers in the till, it is slammed hard. Score so far of the big boys. One ex president and a couple of ex PMs. More to come.You guys should try it. Ops,,, I forgot Tricky Nick, but was for spying and Bill was for screwing.
This half brain ( and at least you didn't call a swine,euromaxist, meat head etc) realizes that the cash raised carbon emissions will not all go to green issues. But that is not a problem. As long it doesn't go to somebodies back pocket. We also have an advantage that in various national assemblies, we have the greens keeping an eye on things.We the people, want our politicians to do what we want, and not that the pressure groups (we have those as well). We don't always succeed. But this time we have.

But what gets to me, is the legislative of one country, whom are supposed to be law abiding etc, tells it's airlines to brake the law of twenty seven other countries. NO NO NO. And that is the real issue.

 

[Euro Meatball]

Would you have prefered at the end of WWII the US had just packed up and left? Leaving behind a Europe with a destroyed infrastructure,wrecked economies, millions of homeless and of course one of histories biggest mass murderers with the largest army in the world just on the other side of the border? Wonder if Joe Stalin could have resisted the temptation?

Hell no.But then Truman wanted a front line and stratigically he could not have Europe fall to Uncle Joe. Please also note that the Soviets and the US were not the only military forces in Western Europe at that time. In 1945 I think the Brits had 3 million men under arms and not counting the free forces of Europe whom conscripted as soon as their countries were liiberated.. and all in their back yard with the latest weapons. Don't think Uncle Joe was that mad.

 

[delldude]

Hell no.But then Truman wanted a front line and stratigically he could not have Europe fall to Uncle Joe. Please also note that the Soviets and the US were not the only military forces in Western Europe at that time. In 1945 I think the Brits had 3 million men under arms and not counting the free forces of Europe whom conscripted as soon as their countries were liiberated.. and all in their back yard with the latest weapons. Don't think Uncle Joe was that mad.

Good thing Uncle Sam stopped by or we'd all be Sprechen ze Deutsch or говорить России?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Back on Topic Kids, So now the worlds debt holder has spoken. Wonder what the Euro-Trash will do now?

China, India Mount Opposition Against EU Aviation Carbon Curbs
By Bloomberg News - Jan 4, 2012 8:43 AM ET


The European Union faced increased pressure to scale down its plan to impose carbon curbs on airlines after China’s carriers said they won’t comply with the rules and India signaled it may attempt to scupper the EU plan.

Europe should either scrap or delay its initiative to include flights to and from the region’s airports in its emissions trading system as of this year, according to the China Air Transport Association, or CATA. India may ask airlines to withhold emissions data, a civil aviation ministry official said, a move that would undermine the first expansion of the EU carbon cap-and-trade program beyond its borders.

“What we need to do now is co-operate together and pressure them to scrap this,” Chai Haibo, vice secretary general of Beijing-based CATA, said in a phone interview. Members of the association include Air China Ltd., China Southern Airlines Co. and China Eastern Airlines Corp.

The warnings by China and India follow a declaration adopted in November by the United Nations’ International Civil Aviation Organization calling on the EU to exempt international aircraft operators from its curbs on carbon. The non-binding ICAO statement was supported by 26 countries, including the U.S., Russia and Japan, who said that the expansion of the EU program was inconsistent with international law.

The EU, which wants to lead the global fight against climate change, decided that aviation should become a part of its carbon program after airline discharges in Europe doubled over two decades and international organizations failed to enact emission curbs.

Bloonberg Article

Reuters Article

 

[delldude]

Back on Topic Kids, So now the worlds debt holder has spoken. Wonder what the Euro-Trash will do now?



Bloonbery Article

Hey when you quit straying, so will the rest of us......

 

[Dog Wonder]

Hey when you quit straying, so will the rest of us......

Sounds like a Newt supporter.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Sounds like a Newt supporter.

This is why I can't vote for him!!! Imagine Putin and the rest watching this clip waiting for Air Force One to land.