- Banned
- #121
Welcome to America West reincarnated to US Airways and further evolved into the New AA.WeAAsles said:In my group so far at least all I'm feeling is like I work for El Cheapo Air.
Disappointing.
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Welcome to America West reincarnated to US Airways and further evolved into the New AA.WeAAsles said:In my group so far at least all I'm feeling is like I work for El Cheapo Air.
Disappointing.
Yea I see that now. They should have kept the ticker symbol (LCC) Low Cost Carrier.700UW said:Welcome to America West reincarnated to US Airways and further evolved into the New AA.
Not even close. Southwest has had 43 years of consecutive profitability, but it has suffered at least 10 quarterly losses since it began flying in June, 1971. Southwest posted quarterly losses in its first seven quarters, from the third quarter of 1971 thru the first quarter of 1973. 1973 marked the beginning of its 43 year unbroken string of annual profits. But there were quarterly losses along the way. Here are three of those losses:WeAAsles said:Debatable E. SWA also only had one quarter in their entire existence where they didn't make a profit. That has to be factored in to the idea of doing things their way. Plus of course it's a very different operation and I'm sure always will be.
In early 2008, following AMR's second consecutive annual post-September 11 net profit ($504 million, excl special items), the AA board decided to pay out $800 per employee even though AA's mainline profit did not break the $500 million threshold for profit-sharing under the 2003 revisions to the profit-sharing formula. Here's the language from the earnings release:WeAAsles said:But please let me know when Parker declares that his workforce has a value outside of what's agreed to on paper. It's always nice to feel just a little appreciated.
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease/amr-corporation-reports-2007-net-profit-of-504-million-companys-second-consecutive-annual-profit-and-a-273-million-improvement-over-2006-results"Our employees overcame enormous challenges from unprecedented weather disruptions, air traffic control problems and record fuel prices to help our company take another important step forward in 2007. We earned our second straight annual profit, achieving our first back-to-back profitable years since 1999-2000, and made progress in many areas, including strengthening our balance sheet, focusing on customers, renewing our fleet, bolstering our network and investing in products and services," said AMR Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey. "While record fuel prices contributed significantly to our fourth quarter loss -- our first quarterly loss after six straight profitable quarters -- they are a reminder of the challenges we must continue to overcome as we strive for consistent and adequate profitability. As we thank our employees for their efforts in 2007, it is also clear that we have more work ahead as we seek to maintain momentum in 2008 and beyond."
<snip>
Excluding fuel and special items, mainline unit costs in the fourth quarter increased by 0.6 percent year over year, largely reflecting a $44 million accrual in the fourth quarter for a one-time payment to eligible employees under the Company's broad-based variable compensation plans. For the full year, the accrual for the one-time payment totaled $67 million.
Arpey said the Company's Board of Directors had approved the one-time payment "in recognition of the collective effort of our employees and the special circumstances that existed in 2007." Each eligible American Airlines employee is expected to receive a payment of $800 under the Customer Service Component of the Company's Annual Incentive Plan (AIP). "This is a tangible way of saying 'thank you' for all that our employees did for our company in a challenging year," he said.
Don't forget the golden era of the late 1990s, when AA had six consecutive profitable years. For example, exactly 17 years ago, AA paid out $341 million on year 1998 profits of $1.3 billion. That was equal to about one month's pay for most employees. Exactly 18 years ago, AA paid out $250 million on year 1997 profits of $985 million. Those are fairly large percentages of the total annual profits. Between 1984, when the profit sharing program began, and early 1999, AA paid out over $1 billion in profit sharing to the employees.Buck said:The best thing I ever received from American Airlines when considering the time it happened was two $50 AMEX gift checks from Bob Crandall, 1985?
Too much to go through tonight cause I'm getting a little tired. But one thanks for the history on SWA. I went off my head on their talking points and could have sworn they said 1 quarter in their history. I obviously got it confused with yearly.FWAAA said:Not even close. Southwest has had 43 years of consecutive profitability, but it has suffered at least 10 quarterly losses since it began flying in June, 1971. Southwest posted quarterly losses in its first seven quarters, from the third quarter of 1971 thru the first quarter of 1973. 1973 marked the beginning of its 43 year unbroken string of annual profits. But there were quarterly losses along the way. Here are three of those losses:
Southwest lost money in the first quarter of 1991 during Desert Storm. Other airlines, of course, lost money and some filed for bankruptcy.
In 2008, Southwest suffered quarterly losses in the third and fourth quarters but earned a profit for the full year:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/business/17air.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/business/23air.html
In early 2008, following AMR's second consecutive annual post-September 11 net profit ($504 million, excl special items), the AA board decided to pay out $800 per employee even though AA's mainline profit did not break the $500 million threshold for profit-sharing under the 2003 revisions to the profit-sharing formula. Here's the language from the earnings release:
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease/amr-corporation-reports-2007-net-profit-of-504-million-companys-second-consecutive-annual-profit-and-a-273-million-improvement-over-2006-results
AA had no contractual obligation to pay that $800 to each employee, as AA did not earn $500 million, the threshold for profit-sharing. And the invective directed at Arpey posted here and elsewhere in January, 2008, was astounding. I'm too lazy to search this clunky website looking for the posts, but dozens of AA employees posted various forms of "Eff You, Arpey" on this website in the days following that earnings announcement. He never made that mistake again. There were posters saying that since it wasn't "restore and more," Arpey could "shove it."
Your bargaining agent gave away your post-bankruptcy profit sharing (offered to employees in the restructuring plan in February, 2012) by selling it cheaply to Horton before the merger, and now you want Parker to give a gift to you and all other employees?
Never say never, but I doubt Parker ever agrees to it. He's on record saying that he doesn't believe that airline employees should have a stake in the profits, and it looks to me like even Delta wants to reduce the profit share its employees get. Now that profits are high, some workers suddenly want profit sharing and management wants to eliminate it. Isn't that a little like waiting until your neighbor's house catches fire to try to buy fire insurance for your house?
Don't forget the golden era of the late 1990s, when AA had six consecutive profitable years. For example, exactly 17 years ago, AA paid out $341 million on year 1998 profits of $1.3 billion. That was equal to about one month's pay for most employees. Exactly 18 years ago, AA paid out $250 million on year 1997 profits of $985 million. Those are fairly large percentages of the total annual profits. Between 1984, when the profit sharing program began, and early 1999, AA paid out over $1 billion in profit sharing to the employees.
I had to be reminded of this but the TWU agreed to give up the first 10% of 15 in exchange for improvements in the BK agreement. First the Pilots agreed to go from a 20% ask down to a 17% which triggered me too and also exchange the 10% for improvements.Overspeed said:FWAAA,
DId you say the TWU sold the profit sharing plan away to Horton before the merger? They gave it away to Parker not Horton in exhange for the 4.3% pay raise.
I'd forgotten the requirement to pick up the check in person - that was a low-class, tone-deaf move by management.WeAAsles said:On the $800.00 I know what you're talking about. Although there was a lot going on psychologically back then and management/ employee relations were completely irreparable by then. The toxicity by then I think was permanent. (Making us come to collect our AIP bonus and shake their hand and giving us a 100 Grand bar to go with it one time) mocking people who were having a hard enough time paying their bills just wasn't cool. I think the animosity though built up over years from both sides and it was mutual hatred in the end?
True, the final 5% of the profit-sharing was traded to Parker, but as WeAAsles correctly posted, the first 10% (2/3 of the profit sharing) was traded to Horton thanks to your union's stupidity in accepting the "me-too" clause instead of negotiating and representing the TWU-represented employees. The pilots traded away that first 2/3 (10%) to Horton and since the APFA and TWU had no self-confidence that they could negotiate their own agreement, those unions consented to the loss of the first 2/3 of their profit sharing.Overspeed said:FWAAA,
DId you say the TWU sold the profit sharing plan away to Horton before the merger? They gave it away to Parker not Horton in exhange for the 4.3% pay raise.
FWAAA said:I'd forgotten the requirement to pick up the check in person - that was a low-class, tone-deaf move by management.
True, the final 5% of the profit-sharing was traded to Parker, but as WeAAsles correctly posted, the first 10% (2/3 of the profit sharing) was traded to Horton thanks to your union's stupidity in accepting the "me-too" clause instead of negotiating and representing the TWU-represented employees. The pilots traded away that first 2/3 (10%) to Horton and since the APFA and TWU had no self-confidence that they could negotiate their own agreement, those unions consented to the loss of the first 2/3 of their profit sharing.
And then, the TWU gave up the last 5% as WeAAsles detailed.
Overspeed said:FWAAA and W,
The way the the 15% PS plan was explained to me was the old PS plan was back loaded in that there was no pay out until thresholds were met and the larger the profit, the larger the payout. In the new PS plan (that we gave away for 4.3%) the first dollar of profit triggered a distribution to all employees equally.