AA, UA and DL in China

[ChockJockey]

You probably will need a few cups of coffee to figure it out, but your little campaign to out Spectator and only him served to accomplish one and only one thing and that is for me to redouble my efforts to dominate the board with my message and do everything I can to prove my points, which I have indeed accomplished doing.

 

but some people can't stand to let someone else speak the truth without trying to carpet bomb it off the map.

 
WT is the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to airline wisdom but through Him.

 

[LDVAviation]

Exactly.   Can you imagine the celebrations at Delta when he retired?   They're probably still partying.  

 
Now, that's the truth!

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT is the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to airline wisdom but through Him.

wow, just wow.

I suspect even some non-Christians would find that offensive.

help us out in understanding the connection to the topic at hand

 

[ChockJockey]

wow, just wow.

I suspect even some non-Christians would find that offensive.

help us out in understanding the connection to the topic at hand

 
We're trying to have a facts-based discussion about the dynamics of U.S. air carriers operating to and from China, please refrain from turning this into a discussion about religion.  This is not the place for it.

 

[robbedagain]

anyone know how the first 2 flights from DFW to CHINA how well it did or has done

 

[eolesen]

anyone know how the first 2 flights from DFW to CHINA how well it did or has done

Apparently they've all departed and arrived. Otherwise, we would have probably heard about it on CNN.

Anything anyone says about how they're doing this early on is purely anecdotal and/or projecting...

 

[jeffster]

Exactly.   Can you imagine the celebrations at Delta when he retired?   They're probably still partying.   
 
 

As a matter of fact, here they are...
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

robbed,
fare searches on both DFW-HKG and DFW-PVG show on multiple dates that various carriers are undercutting AA in the local market.

The most common is Korean Airlines via their DFW-ICN flight with connections.

In turn, DFW-ICN comes up with the lowest price on other carriers, often Asiana via the west coast.

You will recall that KE operated DFW-ICN before AA started it and KE added flights since it had not originally been operated on a daily basis but is now.

Now that AA is in the ICN market, KE is apparently using its additional capacity to target AA's new Asian flights.

check out www.kayak.com and see what you find.

 

[FWAAA]

No big surprise that OZ is charging less - the gross negligence displayed by the OZ crew at SFO almost a year ago has got to be depressing demand (among rational, safety-minded people) and it will likely take lower prices to fill seats until the memory of its pilots' incompetence wears off.   On top of that, connecting itineraries are often cheaper than nonstop, as some are willing to pay to avoid LAX or SFO.    No big surprise either that KE is charging less as there's some evidence that the OZ failings may have some cultural underpinnings in Korean aviation, which may be shared by Korean Airlines as well.   
 
If DFW-NRT is one of the successful AA routes to Asia, then perhaps DFW-ICN and DFW-HKG can succeed also.

 

[robbedagain]

wt  orbitz.com shows for example aug 18 to 25 DFW-ICN  AA is charging the cheapest fare around 1476 vs KAL 1562

 

[WorldTraveler]

the Asian carriers as a whole undercut many itineraries because they have favorable geography between the US and much of east Asia but they also have lower labor costs than the US or Japanese carriers.

again, the significance is that KE is undercutting AA so aggressively in the local market - check out the differences in fares.

Given that KE served the DFW-ICN market before AA decided to and then added flights when AA announced ICN service, it was a given that KE would find a way to ensure that it continued to succeed at DFW and is doing that by undercutting AA's routes to China and HKG.

remember that a certain airline that has a hug about 750 miles east of DFW and is an alliance partner with KE has complained about KE undercutting that hometown airline's fares to Asia.

It shouldn't be a surprise that KE would do the same thing from an airport at which it was the only E. Asian carrier and then had the then hometown carrier decide to start service to ICN.

worth watching but the more interesting part is not that DFW fares are being undercut by west coast gateways - that isn't uncommon - but that AA is trying to sustain 3 of its DFW routes against an E. Asian carrier that is using its capacity as it is to undercut AA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

wt  orbitz.com shows for example aug 18 to 25 DFW-ICN  AA is charging the cheapest fare around 1476 vs KAL 1562

obviously any of our observations without a computer program to search these databases (and such things do exist) are samples at best.

you chose a Monday to Monday RT which I did not do.

also, KE is not showing up as much of a problem to ICN which KE also serves and has little incentive to undercut but to PVG and HKG.

 

[FWAAA]

wt  orbitz.com shows for example aug 18 to 25 DFW-ICN  AA is charging the cheapest fare around 1476 vs KAL 1562

What really matters are the fares that people are actually paying (data), not random fare searches on various travel websites (anecdotes).

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes that is absolutely true...
but every carrier monitors the activity of competitors in reservation systems and now online fare search engines.

it could be of great strategic interest that AA is now having to compete on its new routes deeper into Asia against a carrier that has a history of undercutting US carriers and might feel even more motivated to do so given that AA is competing in a market that KE once owned.

remember also that KE was the only airline that flew LAX-GRU, a market that AA also decided to enter.

food for thought.

reason to monitor results.

 

[robbedagain]

Fwaa. Is it cheaper thru an airline web vs a third party such as orbitz.

Wt. If possible. What dates did u use on kayak.com