DL Terminates Labor Activist Kip Hedges

[Kev3188]

My question is why you feel a need to talk about the ramp instead of what is going on with your own department.

Maybe 'cause this topic is actually about a ramper?

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, it WAS about a ramper but it is now just a general union vs mgmt. propaganda post.

Remember that you tried to keep it separate from other labor issues and I respected your request but others didn't....

 

[commavia]

Yet another reminder of why Delta employees should make some amount more money than their mostly-unionized counterparts - like the vast majority of private sector workers, they assume the risk of losing their (at-will) employment at the whim of their employer.  Risk generally carries economic value ("with risk comes reward"), so all else being equal, someone who has a higher risk of being laid off or fired for any reason (legally-permissible, of course) should be compensated commensurate with that greater risk they're taking on, and their employer should be willing to pay them that higher compensation in exchange for the greater freedom and flexibility afforded to make changes - staffing levels, processes, work flow, etc. at any time, for any (again, legally-permissible) reason.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and DL employees do gain far more in economic value than the risk they carry.

The real question is why unionized employees buy into the argument year after year that they are better off when the data overwhelmingly says that DL employees do better.

the RISK is that DL decides it is no longer interested in paying its employees as well as it does should they vote in a union.

there is NO RISK for them to be higher paid as non-union employees

 

[southwind]

So basically, WT, you can laugh and make jokes about how things are at airlines doing worse than you but when someone points out those who do better its 
"well that the industry, put in an app there" 
 
Boy what a shocking answer. 

#1 Who's laughing and making jokes?
#2 I'm not WT!
#3 Who said anything about "It's just about the airline industry". Do you believe Sprint and Verizon employees make the same amount?

Boy, nothing like making sh!t up, to try and make a point

 

[WorldTraveler]

So basically, WT, you can laugh and make jokes about how things are at airlines doing worse than you but when someone points out those who do better its 
"well that the industry, put in an app there" 
 
Boy what a shocking answer. 

and to add, you want to pick on scope on the ramp - despite the fact that DL does in fact have its own people in more locations and has kept it that way even though other airlines IN THE PAST TWO YEARS HAVE CUT MORE while refusing to acknowledge the same thing about maintenance.

Where have airlines including DL added maintenance? why are you afraid of talking about that?

no, you didn't play.

and since you have said that DL has been cutting as long as you have been there, it is absolutely a valid question to ask why you didn't leave to go somewhere else.

 

[topDawg]

and the cuts on the ramp happened in 7.5.

other carriers cut elsewhere.

My question is why you feel a need to talk about the ramp instead of what is going on with your own department.

I have a feeling that a big part of the reason is because DL compares pretty favorably AND your coworkers aren't interested in anywhere close to the numbers to even bother printing cards.

Uh no genus Delta also sent out ramp to vendors in BK. (or right before BK) 
SEA, MCI, RSW all come to mind but there were many others. 
 
 
Oh course they also cut during 7.5 too. 
 
As for you next question....
 

Maybe 'cause this topic is actually about a ramper?

and we have a winner. 
 

#1 Who's laughing and making jokes?
#2 I'm not WT!
#3 Who said anything about "It's just about the airline industry". Do you believe Sprint and Verizon employees make the same amount?

Boy, nothing like making sh!t up, to try and make a point

Oh I figured you were making jokes because I couldn't believe someone would be honestly talking s**t when they aren't even (close) at the top of the industry. 
 
and you should just change your name to WT cause you two are just alike. 
 

and to add, you want to pick on scope on the ramp - despite the fact that DL does in fact have its own people in more locations and has kept it that way even though other airlines IN THE PAST TWO YEARS HAVE CUT MORE while refusing to acknowledge the same thing about maintenance.

No I keep bringing up scope because YOU want to talk about how the TWU is failing at scope but if it weren't for the IAM Delta would have 15 mainline station. less than AA. less the WN. less than UA.
 

Where have airlines including DL added maintenance? why are you afraid of talking about that?

What exactly do you want to talk about? 
Delta's outsourcing spend % has been going UP post merger. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you seem to forget that DL inherited a company whose maintenance outsourcing reached 73.6% after the AMFA strike.

on a size adjusted basis, DL's level of maintenance outsourcing remains almost identical to what DL and NW did prior to the merger.

Feel free to congratulate what AMFA did for the profession. DL's level of outsourcing, beat only by AA right now, is a complete reflection of AMFA's decision to put 5000 of the best paying jobs at NWA in jeopardy.

even for the ramp, DL did in fact cut in BK but the vast majority of cuts came with 7.5. If all DL did was what took place in BK, you wouldn't be talking about DL's level of ramp outsourcing.

and again what you don't want to admit is that DL has retained the level of stations that it inherited from NW. Other carriers have not done that.

and since you point to SEA, let's not forget that AS succeeded in outsourcing its ramp there. No DL station any where as close to as large as SEA for AS is outsourced. UA employees themselves voted to extend outsourcing to many more stations than DL.

Unions and their members themselves have voted to eliminate scope while DL has stood firm.

you and Kev should just share your password because you two post the same thing. rollseyes.

 

[Kev3188]

 

you and Kev should just share your password because you two post the same thing. rollseyes.

Great minds think alike...

 

[topDawg]

you seem to forget that DL inherited a company whose maintenance outsourcing reached 73.6% after the AMFA strike.

No i don't forget. I know that is your sorry ass excuse for why Delta is still growing its spend numbers on YOY. 
 
As it is Delta is still slowly but surely increasing its numbers for outsourcing. I know you want to blame the AMFA but the merger was over in 2009. In 2013 Delta was still HIGHER, not lower, not flat, but HIGHER than it was at the merger close. 
 
That is not the AMFA's fault. 
 

on a size adjusted basis, DL's level of maintenance outsourcing remains almost identical to what DL and NW did prior to the merger.

errr care to show us that data? 
 

Feel free to congratulate what AMFA did for the profession. DL's level of outsourcing, beat only by AA right now, is a complete reflection of AMFA's decision to put 5000 of the best paying jobs at NWA in jeopardy.

I do congratulate the AMFA. As you have been told but are way to hard headed to get it (because it doesn't fit your narrative so as normal history is what Delta says it is, right or wrong.....Delta says so it must be true). The AMFA struck because, for the most part, NWA wanted to force them all on the streets. They were going to lose their jobs anyways. 
 
Had they not stuck and allowed NWA to completely gut its maintenance like they wanted then it would kill other unions in negotiations later on down the road. Chess, not checkers...... 
 

even for the ramp, DL did in fact cut in BK but the vast majority of cuts came with 7.5. If all DL did was what took place in BK, you wouldn't be talking about DL's level of ramp outsourcing.

Sure I would. You on crack if Delta wouldn't have still gotten down to 15 stations. Nothing was going to stop them. 
 

and again what you don't want to admit is that DL has retained the level of stations that it inherited from NW. Other carriers have not done that.

United is the only carrier who has made large changes. We don't know what AA is going to do till they get a JCBA. Assuming they keep scope about the same then they will have more stations in-house than Delta will. 

 

and since you point to SEA, let's not forget that AS succeeded in outsourcing its ramp there. No DL station any where as close to as large as SEA for AS is outsourced. UA employees themselves voted to extend outsourcing to many more stations than DL.

Did you forget DGSing the Dallas hub? Mother D has sent its second larger hub right down the river before. Don't toss stones glass house. 

 

Unions and their members themselves have voted to eliminate scope while DL has stood firm.

one union in the same time frame. If you want to compare BKs to BKs then we will. You don't want to do that. You are just trying to make crap up to see what you can get to stick. 
 

you and Kev should just share your password because you two post the same thing. rollseyes.

is that suspose to be an insult or........?

 

[Kev3188]

Kip's been busy...
 
MAC may adopt "labor peace" ordinance:
 
http://www.workdayminnesota.org/articles/firing-baggage-handler-may-spur-mac-adopt-labor-ordinance
 
MSP airport workers will now accrue paid sick leave:
 
http://www.workdayminnesota.org/articles/msp-airport-workers-win-paid-sick-leave

 

[WorldTraveler]

actually, DL doesn't stand alone on this.

other carriers including trade associations have filed suit against similar motions to raise wages at other airports including SEA.

Further, MSP is not geographically in a position where it can force principles on airlines that operate there at a higher cost of what other hub airports provide.

DL has multiple hubs in the northern tier of the US.

DL could very well tell MSP that it will not agree to any proposal that increases its costs above what it can pay for the same services elsewhere.

dawg,
the stats for outsourcing are provided by the DOT and available at the MIT airline data project which I have repeatedly referenced.

If you don't have a source, how can you be making statements about what DL has or has not done?
.

 

[737823]

Have there been any statements from Sito Pantoja or anyone else in the grand lodge regarding his termination?

I don't understand the basis for the IAM underwriting his suit. He isn't a dues paying IAM member and hasn't been for more than four years. Yes he is well connected and was a leader of a local lodge but why should current IAM members at other carriers and outside the industry be paying for this?

Josh

 

[southwind]

Great minds think alike...

Sorry but in the real world everyone doesn't suffer from wealth envy or are they a union cheerleader!

But continue on with your card collecting.... What? Are we going on year #2 now?

 

[topDawg]

actually, DL doesn't stand alone on this.

other carriers including trade associations have filed suit against similar motions to raise wages at other airports including SEA.

Further, MSP is not geographically in a position where it can force principles on airlines that operate there at a higher cost of what other hub airports provide.

DL has multiple hubs in the northern tier of the US.

DL could very well tell MSP that it will not agree to any proposal that increases its costs above what it can pay for the same services elsewhere.

dawg,
the stats for outsourcing are provided by the DOT and available at the MIT airline data project which I have repeatedly referenced.

If you don't have a source, how can you be making statements about what DL has or has not done?
.

Because I do use the MIT data........So again, why is Delta's outsourcing still going up when you just said it isn't?