Delta Bankruptcy

[LiveInAHotel]

Hotel:

Again, we see your preference for bluster and rhetoric over facts and analysis.

Here are a some facts:

Delta had a $383 million and a loss per share of $3.12 for the March 2004 quarter.

Jerry has said in meetings with pilots and other employee groups that ALPA's initial offer was a band-aid, and was too little to fix the problem.

ALPA does have the ability to stand firm in the short term. However, ALPA knows when Delta is going to file for Chapter 11. Then, a 1113 hearing will likely gut the pilot's contract.

Also, as you say "sticking it to management" short term hurts our pilot's pockets in the long term as it weakens Delta's long term survival prospects.

However, your analysis is too tainted by emotion and what others have told you to think for you to realize that on your own.

Why is it you insist on calling us brainwashed? Does it make you feel better about yourself? To me, an example of brainwashing is to believe that your inferior negotiated concessionary contract is better than Delta flight attendants current working conditions. After all, as luv2fly pointed out, we currently make 14.3 % more than an American FA.

Maybe you should use your time on furlough to reflect on just who is brainwashed.

AH,

Once again you're wrong about one thing. I have 26 years at AA so, that would be impossible to be on furlough. But, if you want to pretend that I'm, then go ahead. I see as you always do, you have avoided my comment about the 9% plus the 4.5% pay raise giveback from your pilots. See the DL pilots aren't brainwashed like you and the other 18,000 of your people.

Pathetic paycut offer? I think the combined total of 13.5% is to much to give back to DL. I also could careless that you make more then AA now. Your paycuts can come at a moments notice and you can't do crap about it. What happened to your raises for the past 2 years? FROZEN, not happening! Now if you had a contract, you would have received those raises, if it was in your contract.

Yes, you're very brainwashed because you think DL takes such good care of you. Let me see, you have f/a's on furlough with 1981 DOH. I would call that out of seniority order for a furlough. They can do that because you have no contract. But, you will never see the light because of the KOOL-AID you have been drinking. You should have said no to the KOOL-AID when you were in training at 1030 Delta Blvd., in that nice brick looking building. You know the one you walk into and if you make a left after going through the main doors, you will find the cafeteria on the left side.

Tell Sharon I said hi. You know the one who says "Trust me" and you believe her.

I called your bluff in a PM I sent you. Do you have the guts to respond to it? I doubt you do, because you have no idead who I'm.

 

[aislehopper]

Hotel:

First, your MO is to fabricate an identity to try to hide your real identity. However, there are enough people around that have watched you on this board and other boards long enough that we will not be caught in the web of deception that you spin around yourself.

No, you are on furlough. You are too young to have been flying 26 years. Numerically, it is impossible for someone born in the early 1970's to have 26 years. If you want to pretend a something with four wheels is an airplane and you are really still flying as crew, it's a little pathetic but go ahead.

Second, I directly addressed your comment about the pilots when I repeated Jerry's position on it. It is a band aid, and the company wants more. If you want to be more informed, research the facts. Go to delta.com and the investor relations site and listen to the quarterly results webcast.

You do care about whether someone makes more than you. That is why you were against APFA concessions, and continue to rail on the leadership that made them. Your ego and pay are intertwined, and both were diminished by your union's negotiated concessionary contract.

Your furlough numbers are not correct. I have a coworker with a late 1980's seniority date who has been recalled. Therefore, someone who is out with a 1981 hire date is out because they want to be, or because they did not follow the procedure to be recalled.

For those of you wondering why he was making an attempt to describe our training center, one of the things that this guy consistantly does in all of his mulitiple identities is try to appear that he knows more than he really does by giving general directions to places that he learns from people that he knows. Here, he does it for our training center. He also has done it with his alter-ego's state of residence, NH.

As for your PM, it did not call my bluff. It proved that you are so concerned that I know you for who you are that you reached out to me to bully me into showing you my hand. That is not how the game is played.

I apologize to everyone else for facilitating the hijacking of an otherwise interesting thread.

 

[luv2fly]

Delta's Song Unit Turns Profit In 1Q -Source

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
April 15, 2004 10:44 a.m.

(Adds company source in the fourth paragraph confirming that Song was profitable in the first quarter.)

By Elizabeth Souder
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
NEW YORK -- Delta Air Lines Inc.'s (DAL) low-cost airline unit, Song, turned a profit in the first quarter, with operating costs 20% below that of similar operations at Delta's main airline.

Delta Chief Executive Jerry Grinstein pointed out the "positive" first-quarter results in a letter on Thursday to Song employees congratulating them on their first anniversary.

"Song's leadership team has shared with me the positive first-quarter results you have helped achieve, including operating costs that are approximately 20 percent below those for mainline 757s," Grinstein said in the letter. Delta doesn't break out Song's financial results or operating statistics.

An inside source at the airline confirmed that Song was profitable in the first quarter, going into the black in both February and March.

Song flies a fleet of 36 Boeing 757 airplanes on routes that primarily serve leisure passengers.

Grinstein said Song has come up with some innovations that were adopted by the main airline to cut costs, such as boarding passengers according to zones rather than seats, selling food on board and preparing planes more quickly for takeoff.

Grinstein is reviewing all of Delta's operations to find ways to return the airline to profitability. It's not clear whether Song will survive the possible changes as a distinct unit and brand.

Delta has halted some of the growth it had planned for Song. In March, Grinstein said of Song during a presentation: "I understand fully what a fighter brand is, and that sometimes you have to make an economic investment in order to hold off competition; that makes a lot of sense to me. But there's always a question of the price you're willing to pay, and I think we have to understand that more fully before we're willing to expand."

On Tuesday, Grinstein said he will present the results of his review to the board in late summer, and that he hasn't reached any conclusions yet.

-By Elizabeth Souder, Dow Jones Newswires; 201-938-4148; [email protected]


Funny, the pilots at Song are paid the same as mainline. :huh: They must not have gotten the memo on the 40% pay reduction.

 

[Vikedog64]

They offered DL 9% and to forgo their 4.5% raise. Guess what? DL said no and that was a very stupid thing to say to a tough, unified pilot group!

I hope the DL Pilots stick it to DL management. It will serve them right.

All of DL employee excpet the pilots are brainwashed. You believe everything management tells you and do it. Once again they froze all non-union raises for the 2nd year in row. Even now we gave up 15.6% st AA, at least we will be getting raises every year. Yes, 1.5% stinks but it's bettre then having management say sorry, not again while they fill their pockets with CASH!

You are an DELETED BY MODERATOR. When you have pilot pay 30-40% higher than anyone else, the s%%%will hit the fan. For your information, the 9% plus the 4.5% covers their raises the last 2 years and the RAISE they will take in May. If the pilot group were to give everthing DAL wanted, it would equal around 800-900Million dollars savings per year. I am really sorry that you are so pissed because of your pay cut at AMR, but like you said at least you get minimal raises every year. Why won't DaAL take the 14% raise? Because it won't make a difference. We need a competitive cost structure, pure and simple and the bottom line is that pilot pay is the only pay that is GROSSLY higher than anyone else. For your minfo...I will take an additional pay cut if it is necessary...
\

 

[Vikedog64]

NHBB,
You are correct that AA has a huge leg up in becoming a world wide airline that is competitive with LCC's. I don't for the life of me understand how Delta pilots think they are going to have a job in the future if they don't get serious about being competitively paid. It is simply not realistic to think that Delta will continue to exist if pilot costs (or any other category for that matter) are vastly out of line with peer carriers. Delta management does know what they are doing and the reduction of their cash position in the last quarter is playing out exactly as Wall Street is expecting - without dramatic cost cuts, Delta's cash will whither and they will have no choice but to go through bankruptcy.

It is not foolish that DL management rejected ALPA's pathetic ~15% paycut offer (including the May increase) because DL management recognizes that without the right cost structure, they will be another USAirways in a couple years. The growth of LCC's in the east coast and across the Atlantic will continue for the next several years and Delta will have no revenue advantage but a huge cost disadvantage.

Delta management will get the pilot costs it wants and you are kidding yourself if you don't think they will. Remember, pilots are just a cost item that can be elliminated as the company needs.

Absolutely correct. What is happening is that ALPA is doing their best to keep a standard pay for the industry, but what our pilots don't understand is that it is at the expense of their jobs and their company. Have you ever noticed how cows , even when they are off to be slaughtered will follow the one in front of them? See a trend here?

 

[luv2fly]

For your minfo...I will take an additional pay cut if it is necessary...
\

And you will Vike. Trust me you will.

 

[Vikedog64]

And you will Vike. Trust me you will.

Will you take a pay cut to be competitive..that is the question.

 

[luv2fly]

Will you take a pay cut to be competitive..that is the question.

I have already admitted that I would take a paycut. I would take a 15%-20% paycut. How much of a pay cut have you taken already? What is your position with DL? Let's compare what you make relative to your peers.

 

[DVT]

.....I would take a paycut. I would take a 15%-20% paycut.

You will take more than 20% Luv. The white collar wannabe union toughs that run the Delta MEC may end-up getting you a 100% paycut.

Tell us all about the FM II decision that was due late last year.

 

[luv2fly]

You will take more than 20% Luv. The white collar wannabe union toughs that run the Delta MEC may end-up getting you a 100% paycut.

Tell us all about the FM II decision that was due late last year.

Not voluntarily. Once again DVT, I'll take that bet. If I remember correctly, you lost the last one.



What would you like to know about the FMII grievance? Final rebuttals were submitted at the end of January and a decision has not been rendered. I would have expected you to know that. In addition, it appears that DL hit the RPM requirement set forth in the FMI grievance and recalls of that group should start shortly. I am sure you are happy to know that.
Funny how I always seem to drag you out of hibernation.

 

[DVT]

I'll take that bet. If I remember correctly, you lost the last one.

In addition, it appears that DL hit the RPM requirement set forth in the FMI grievance and recalls of that group should start shortly. I am sure you are happy to know that.

If I lost the last bet, then why has the greed of the seniors, to protect their own paycheck, kept the original 1,060 furloughees out of work for so long?

When the FM II decision comes down, don't count on any back pay.

Have you completed the CY2005 survey?

 

[luv2fly]

If I lost the last bet, then why has the greed of the seniors, to protect their own paycheck, kept the original 1,060 furloughees out of work for so long?

When the FM II decision comes down, don't count on any back pay.

Have you completed the CY2005 survey?

Oh come on DVT,

You can do better than that can't you?
Greed had nothing to due with it. The arbitrator's decision predicated the recall on pre 9-11 RPM's. That requirement was just now met.
Your prediciton that DALPA would lose that grievance was in fact wrong, so yes you lost the bet, or are you now going to contend that DL is recalling pilots out of the goodness of their heart?

I am not counting on back pay for the FMII grievance. It was originally filed because the company furloughed in violation of the FM clause of the PWA, and now those 250 pilots are back as well.

Yes I have completed the survey. Thanks for asking. Perhaps you should volunteer for the communications committee since you obviously have a earnest desire to help out.

You wouldn't happen to be buds with Erskine would you? B) I hear he is looking for a new job.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Hey Livein! Come on back to a.a.'s board! They've got you pegged over here!!!! I wouldn't talk too load about Senority! The way a.a. and company screw over TWA's F/As!!!!!! But that will change in time! Don't tack any wooden nickels!!!

 

[Vikedog64]

I have already admitted that I would take a paycut. I would take a 15%-20% paycut. How much of a pay cut have you taken already? What is your position with DL? Let's compare what you make relative to your peers.

I think you are getting too excited about the % of a paycut. I am a F/A. I was on a crew van with an American Airlines crew last month. The F/A that I talked to had basicially the same pay and benefits that we had before the cut. She told me that they had a "variation" of blended pay that we will go to shortly. She said that they have to work about 5 hours more a month to make the same pay as before the cuts. Their hourly pay tops out somewhere in the high 40$ range, as ours will. The problem is that you don't realize or don't want to realize that you are the only group that is 30-40% higher than your peers. It seems quite simple to me why the company will not accept a cut that is still inferior to your peers at other carriers. You know, I have a small business and I know how much extra it costs me for each rise in fuel and how much each person I hire costs. The exception when comparing my business to DAL, is that I have been able to pass SOME of it on to my clients. Delta can not. This is really a no-brainer luv. I hate to be cynical, but that is what I mean when I say that many of you do not know business, just like many airline employees, including peers I work with. Your ALPA leadership will run this company into BK if you and your peers don't stand up and realize what is on the line, and then what? Whose fault will it be then?? :angry:

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

IMHO you should take a good look over to UA and U. Get used to their trouble and uncertainty. You at DL will soon join their ranks in having to give up more than you wanted unless a sudden stroke of common sense will hit you and you realize that you are overpaid and to ignorant to realize it.

Just look at the CASM:

DL $0.1048
HP $0.0786
WN $ 0.0760
B6 $ 0.0608


And also look at your pilot salaries. A DL Pilot in the first year makes more than a pilot at any other US carrier (except NW and they might follow you very soon too) in their 12th year. If that is not well over the average and you don’t realize that you have to give in and back than you don’t deserve anything else than going into Ch11!