DL EMPLOYEE FEELINGS ABOUT POSSIBLE PILOT STRIKE

[luv2fly]

But you got more than any other group. United plus one percent.

And how is that relevant?
As I said the DL pilots have given back more than any employee group. We have done our fair share.

 

[aislehopper]

Percentage-wise, I've heard flight attendants say the same thing.

I am afraid that before it is all over, all of us from every department will feel that we have given back an unfair share.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If it is all about SURVIVAL, which is the supposed purpose of chapter 11, then what is all this talk of expansion? Am I the only one that sees a HUGE inconsistency in what DL management is spouting? Seems to me that this could be a gigantic abuse of the legal system if this chapter 11 filing is used to finance an expansion by DL at the employees' expense. Pretty smart, really. Management gives everybody a "warm fuzzy" that there are more job opportunities coming, when in reality they can't promise anything. That way, they can get the few contract employees (read: union) to vote away their contracts. It's either that or this whole thing is a sham to get big bucks from the employees through the court system, leaving the DL employees with crummy jobs, crummier pay and even worse benefits. Glad I'm not in this thankless industry any longer.

 

[boxer]

And how is that relevant?
As I said the DL pilots have given back more than any employee group. We have done our fair share.

Perhaps if you pilots were not so greedy and were a little quicker to give back Delta would not be in the position they are in today.

 

[flymeorion]

I have mixed feeling over the whole thing. There's a part of me that feels like DL is doing what they have to do. This is hard times for all of us. But when we are all forced to go to ATL for some stupid "velvet Rope" training us how to be better flight attendants I think the pilots should do what they have to do.

There's a reason why DL was at the top of their game before it was because we all felt like we were on the same team but as soon as management started taking from us only to line their own pockets and hiring expensive consultants to tell us to give the same service to the customer with less people and less supplies everything fell apart.

I admit that at this point DL doesn't fall into my long term career goals because I don't fall into theirs.

 

[corl737]

Perhaps if you pilots were not so greedy and were a little quicker to give back Delta would not be in the position they are in today.

Pilots are in the unenviable position of having an extremely finite time period in which to acquire their career earnings. As soon as they hit 60 they're terminated -- right at the top of their annual earnings potential. They can't stretch their employment out even a single day longer because the federal government won't allow it. Of course the pilots want to get as much pay as possible ... just like every other unionized or even nonunion worker.

If you want to point a finger, ask DL management why they agreed to such a payscale in the first place?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

But you got more than any other group. United plus one percent.

==========================================================

boxer,
"IF" you are a DL employee, perhaps you might like to take "my survey" ??
(Again, ONLY if your a DL employee)

Question;

1. How many oppertunities have you had, in your DL career, to vote on Union Representation ???????

And

2. How many times have you voted NO ??


NH/BB's

 

[luv2fly]

Perhaps if you pilots were not so greedy and were a little quicker to give back Delta would not be in the position they are in today.

Are you asserting that the DL pilots are responsible for DL being in BK? Let's say that the pilots gave up 50% a year earlier, would that have changed things? What amount would have sufficed? Please detail that for us, because not even our management team could not do that. You remember don't you? "Do it once, do it right." That do it once
32% turned into an additional 14% with more to come.
Did the other employee groups "step up" and volunteer their paycuts or were they unilaterally imposed? Were the other groups characterized as "greedy" because their concessions weren't given voluntarily? Your assertions are biased and void of fact.

 

[Ch. 12]

If it is all about SURVIVAL, which is the supposed purpose of chapter 11, then what is all this talk of expansion? Am I the only one that sees a HUGE inconsistency in what DL management is spouting? Seems to me that this could be a gigantic abuse of the legal system if this chapter 11 filing is used to finance an expansion by DL at the employees' expense. Pretty smart, really.

Oldie-

If DL were truly expanding, I would understand where you were coming from but the reality of it is that they are re-allocating assets. That is not a "fancy term" for expansion as DL is tearing down flights on their domestic network to enter markets with more profit potential internationally. DL is giving up aircraft...not acquiring them (as an "expansion" would entail) and are simply taking widebodies from domestic leisure routes and putting them onto int'l routes. DL has also drastically tightened the hub schedules to make them much more efficient producing equipment to be used in other markets. They have the assets, why not use them optimally in existing markets and add revenue-generators with the improved efficiency? So nobody is fooling anybody b/c they truly are NOT expanding and have NOT promised job growth in the future. In fact...DL continues to maintain that all of the 7-9000 promised job cuts will occur this year. Your interpretation of the news is inaccurate.

-Ch. 12

 

[WNrforlife]

This article just proves how out of touch with reality DALPA is. They want to go back to 2004 wages? What have they been smoking?

Saturday, February 11, 2006
Delta pilots want wages restored | Print |

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HARRY R. WEBER - The Associated Press
ATLANTA -- A Delta Air Lines Inc. official told management employees Friday that the company's pilots are asking that their wage scales be restored to December 2004 levels after a certain period.

Dan Lewis, the company's vice president of corporate communications, said in a memo to officers and directors that the request was made in the latest offer on new pay and benefit cuts by the union representing Delta's 6,000 pilots.

Lewis said the union also wants an interest-bearing note of roughly $1 billion, presumably in case the pilots' defined benefit pension is terminated. Lewis said Delta has offered the pilots a $300 million note.

The newly revealed terms come as negotiators for both sides try to reach a pact on a second round of concessions before a March 1 deadline. If they can't, a three-person arbitration panel will decide Delta's request that its contract with its pilots be thrown out so the company can impose $325 million in cuts unilaterally.

The chairman of the union's executive committee, Lee Moak, said Thursday that the pilots will strike if their contract is thrown out. The company has said a strike would put the nation's third-largest carrier out of business.

In late 2004, Delta's pilots agreed to $1 billion in annual concessions, which included a 32.5 percent pay cut. The company's latest proposal on new cuts asks for another 18 percent pay reduction, Lewis said in the memo. The union wants pay scales restored to the levels they were after the 2004 deal following a certain period, Lewis said. He didn't specify the period.

A union spokesman, Ken Frydman, did not immediately respond Friday to questions about the company memo. But Moak, in a letter to pilots posted on the union Web site Friday, said management is the one that is playing hardball.

"It is in management's best interest to understand that it is time to abandon their 'demand philosophy' and return to the time-honored practice of earnest negotiating," Moak wrote.

Moak also said in the letter that the termination of the pilot pension plan would provide the company with massive savings, "yet they propose to credit us with less than 10 percent of those savings." Moak said Thursday that Delta has told the union that it believes the pension plan will be terminated. A Delta spokesman said the airline has made no decision about the pension.

Delta, which filed for bankruptcy protection in September, has said repeatedly that it needs $325 million in new concessions from its pilots as part of its turnaround plan. The pilots' latest offer calls for $115 million in annual concessions.

Lewis said in his memo that the company's latest offer reduces the total amount of concessions it is seeking from $325 million to $315 million, despite the risk that would add to Delta's restructuring plan. Moak said Thursday that Delta was still stuck at $325 million.

Lewis accused the union, the Air Line Pilots Association, of failing to share with the company the union's own financial analysis of what it believes the company requires for a successful reorganization.

"That has prevented the company from assessing the financial basis for ALPA's proposals," Lewis said.

Two months ago, Delta and its pilots reached an agreement on interim wage cuts of 14 percent and other cuts equal to an additional 1 percent wage reduction, which would be worth about $143 million to $152 million on an annual basis. The purpose was to give the sides time to reach a permanent comprehensive agreement.

Delta pilots were earning on average $169,393 annually prior to the interim pay cuts two months ago, according to papers filed by the company in bankruptcy court.

Delta has reported $11.6 billion in losses since January 2001. It is scheduled to report its fourth-quarter and year-end 2005 results on Tuesday.

This story appeared in The Daily Herald on page D6.

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[WorldTraveler]

even if a court refuses to block a strike before it happens, it is almost certain that DL's creditors would move mighty quickly to support the company in stopping a strike one minute after it happened to protect their assets. Come on, now. Who do you think has more power in this country - GE or ALPA? And DL is still the number 1 or number 2 airline in most cities east of the Mississippi - exactly the situation that would invoke Presidential intervention to protect the US economy. Besides, last I checked W will not be running again.

BOHICA, DALPA. Same song, 13th verse.

 

[B.O.B.]

even if a court refuses to block a strike before it happens, it is almost certain that DL's creditors would move mighty quickly to support the company in stopping a strike one minute after it happened to protect their assets. Come on, now. Who do you think has more power in this country - GE or ALPA? And DL is still the number 1 or number 2 airline in most cities east of the Mississippi - exactly the situation that would invoke Presidential intervention to protect the US economy. Besides, last I checked W will not be running again.

BOHICA, DALPA. Same song, 13th verse.

If their contract is tossed out by the BK Judge, they have a right to STRIKE! Who is going to force them back to work if their contract is gone? NOBODY CAN! Even a PEB can't force them back. No CONTRACT = not required to return!

 

[aislehopper]

If their contract is tossed out by the BK Judge, they have a right to STRIKE! Who is going to force them back to work if their contract is gone? NOBODY CAN! Even a PEB can't force them back. No CONTRACT = not required to return!

Bob:

Did you base your assertion on any legal precedent or is it based on pure emotion?

Courts routinely intervene in job actions, and this situation is clearly one in which a court could intervene.

 

[B.O.B.]

Bob:

Did you base your assertion on any legal precedent or is it based on pure emotion?

Courts routinely intervene in job actions, and this situation is clearly one in which a court could intervene.

Since you're a non-union employee, you should review what the pilots can/can't do if their contract is tossed by the BK Judge.

If their contract is thrown out and destroyed by the BK Judge, they have a legal right to strike and don't have to come back if ordered. If the Judge doesn't throw it out and they don't reach an agreement on a contract with Delta then yes, they can be ordered back to work.

You need to lay off the Kool-Aid hopper!

 

[peaches]

Pilots are in the unenviable position of having an extremely finite time period in which to acquire their career earnings. As soon as they hit 60 they're terminated -- right at the top of their annual earnings potential. They can't stretch their employment out even a single day longer because the federal government won't allow it. Of course the pilots want to get as much pay as possible ... just like every other unionized or even nonunion worker.

If you want to point a finger, ask DL management why they agreed to such a payscale in the first place?

Eeeeerrrrrrr...not quite Corl. ALPA has negotiated for 60+ pilots to return to the Engineer's seat until they are 65. (With Captain's pay, of course).