delta tell us what you think and please be candid

[Michael B]

Right, which is exactly what would happen with a US/ DL merge. You get over it.

Are you really that dense?
With WA/DL there was no -getting over-. WA came in to better benefits, higher pay, and no questions about position. Many had to relocate, but it was an assisted move from a high cost of living area to a lower one with dual living expenses paid. Some had been lied to so many times through the battles between their union and management that they were a little apprehensive how the no-union thing was going to work out, but I have never talked to even one who didn't think it was going to be a good deal on all sides.

WA & DL had compatible fleets.
WA had a strong presence in the west, DL in the east. Both had runners that went into the other's territory, making melding routes a non-event.
WA and DL had similar operational and service philosophies.
Both companies were sound, with no major internal conflicts.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

AW/US approached Delta and was told the same thing United was told. Unlike United, and like any rapist, DP wouldn't take no-thank you for an answer. Instead, his answer is “just lay back and take it because there's nothing you can do about it.â€￾
Nobody has shown the lack of class DP has shown.
DP said himself that this acquisition MUST go through BEFORE Delta comes out of BK so that he can IMPOSE the changes that MUST be made for HIS plan to work.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/20..._x.htm?csp=N008
Does that sound like someone who wants to play nice?
Question - When US was down, did US approach AW, or did DP do it all on his own?
Another - It looks like LCC has done well. Have you seen the promised payback for everything you had to give up?

Yup anytime someone says no that should be the end of it. The ones that say no always are right. I sure am glad our founding fathers didn't listen to all the naysayers when they set about to create what turned out to be our United State of America. Not fair to compare them to Parker? Well it isn't fair to compare Parker to a rapist. It's a free country and Parker has done nothing illegal or unethical. He just couldn't take no for an answer. Something that everyone has done in their life when they thought they might have a be better idea.

Play nice? Did Gerald play nice? Did he tell Parker we think we got it all figured out but if you really think you have a better deal for shareholders and employees then fly on out lets have dinner and talk about it. As far as I know he didn't So Parker did the only thing he could do. He forced their hand to look at his deal. It didn't go down the way it did because of Parker it went down the way it did because of Gerald Grinstein.

And last but not least does a rapist ask first. I wouldn't know but you seem to.

What are the promised paybacks for everything that you refer to?

Hmm maybe this is it? Making the biggest strongest Airline in the US.

 

[Itestwell]

B)-->QUOTE(Michael B @ Nov 30 2006, 07:14 PM) [post="434210"][/post]

Are you really that dense?
With WA/DL there was no -getting over-. WA came in to better benefits, higher pay, and no questions about position. Many had to relocate, but it was an assisted move from a high cost of living area to a lower one with dual living expenses paid. Some had been lied to so many times through the battles between their union and management that they were a little apprehensive how the no-union thing was going to work out, but I have never talked to even one who didn't think it was going to be a good deal on all sides.

WA & DL had compatible fleets.
WA had a strong presence in the west, DL in the east. Both had runners that went into the other's territory, making melding routes a non-event.
WA and DL had similar operational and service philosophies.
Both companies were sound, with no major internal conflicts.
[/quote]
Nope, not dense at all. If the merger happens, 10 years from now, it will be a thing of the past. People will, in fact, get over it.

What is your point with the non compatible fleets issue? US alone has ~200 narrowbody airbus, which is hardly a small number. The large expense with different fleets comes when you have a small number of one type of a/c, maintaining parts, etc. There would be an issue with the A330/ B777 fleets, but not with the baby bus/ Boeing....

US and DL have similar service philosphies: they are both airlines.
WA had no "major internal conflicts", yet you say the union and management were battling?

We are operating in an incredibly different environment in 2006. If this merger will create a stronger, fortified, more flexible airline that is a strong competitor , than I am all for it. Let the creditors, etc.. hash it out, and then we will go from there. Call me US or DL, couldn't care less. Just give us all stability.

 

[Vikedog64]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Michael B @ Nov 30 2006, 07:14 PM) [post="434210"][/post]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Are you really that dense?
With WA/DL there was no -getting over-. WA came in to better benefits, higher pay, and no questions about position. Many had to relocate, but it was an assisted move from a high cost of living area to a lower one with dual living expenses paid. Some had been lied to so many times through the battles between their union and management that they were a little apprehensive how the no-union thing was going to work out, but I have never talked to even one who didn't think it was going to be a good deal on all sides.

WA & DL had compatible fleets.
WA had a strong presence in the west, DL in the east. Both had runners that went into the other's territory, making melding routes a non-event.
WA and DL had similar operational and service philosophies.
Both companies were sound, with no major internal conflicts.

Nope, not dense at all. If the merger happens, 10 years from now, it will be a thing of the past. People will, in fact, get over it.

What is your point with the non compatible fleets issue? US alone has ~200 narrowbody airbus, which is hardly a small number. The large expense with different fleets comes when you have a small number of one type of a/c, maintaining parts, etc. There would be an issue with the A330/ B777 fleets, but not with the baby bus/ Boeing....

US and DL have similar service philosphies: they are both airlines.
WA had no "major internal conflicts", yet you say the union and management were battling?

We are operating in an incredibly different environment in 2006. If this merger will create a stronger, fortified, more flexible airline that is a strong competitor , than I am all for it. Let the creditors, etc.. hash it out, and then we will go from there. Call me US or DL, couldn't care less. Just give us all stability.

Amen...

 

[MMB]

What are the promised paybacks for everything that you refer to?

Oct/Nov 2004. US employees gave up 15% to 23% pay, plus cuts to benefits. You were supposed a rate snap back in two years or if there was a merger. Well, you had a merger with AW AND it's been 2 years. You should have seen a substantial pay increase. Did you?

 

[WNrforlife]

Oct/Nov 2004. US employees gave up 15% to 23% pay, plus cuts to benefits. You were supposed a rate snap back in two years or if there was a merger. Well, you had a merger with AW AND it's been 2 years. You should have seen a substantial pay increase. Did you?

He**, no - these UScare guys are talking out of their a**.

They are for it because they know that it won't be their a** on the line.

 

[PhxMama]

Oct/Nov 2004. US employees gave up 15% to 23% pay, plus cuts to benefits. You were supposed a rate snap back in two years or if there was a merger. Well, you had a merger with AW AND it's been 2 years. You should have seen a substantial pay increase. Did you?

Well I came from the HP side and my pay has increased. Its only been a little over a year since the merger was announced. Things dont happen overnight. US was almost bankrupt. There needs to be money to pay everyone and also prepare for the future. A rainy day fund. If this US/DL merger happens, Doug has said all will be on the same page. The higher of the 3. Have Delta employees taken any pay cuts? Right now US is making money, how about DAL? Every airline has had financial problems, this merger may help solve them for 3 airlines. HP/US and DL. If these companies can all become 1 and make money why wouldnt it make sense? Amazing things can happen when bankrupcy rules are in place. Lets hope the best for all the airlines no matter the outcome.

 

[MMB]

… Not fair to compare them to Parker? Well it isn't fair to compare Parker to a rapist. It's a free country and Parker has done nothing illegal or unethical. He just couldn't take no for an answer. Something that everyone has done in their life when they thought they might have a be better idea.
…
And last but not least does a rapist ask first. I wouldn't know but you seem to.

It’s perfectly fair, and yes I do. My sister was a victim of date rape. She said everything was fine until she told him to back off when he got a little too handsy, then he got ugly.
Approximately 77 percent of all rape victims know their attacker and 92% of adolescent rape victims know their attacker. On college campuses, one in four women are victims of rape. At least 84 percent of those women know their attacker and 57 percent of those rapes happened on a date.

However, from your post I’d say you really don’t care about any of that, would ignore any ‘no’ you didn’t like, and if you have a sister (pass around) that she’s the type that would never say no.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

However, from your post I’d say you really don’t care about any of that, would ignore any ‘no’ you didn’t like, and if you have a sister (pass around) that she’s the type that would never say no.

No there you would be wrong I do care and you educated me regarding rape victims. All I was saying was I didn't think it was fair that Doug was being compared to a rapist just because he didn't take "no" for an answer. I guess the easy way out is just start calling everyone a rapist because I bet everyone in the world has been told "no" for something and did or tried it anyway.

I am sorry about your sister and can understand your anger but I also think you should retract you comments regarding my sister(Even if I don't have one). I may not have made myself clear on what what I was saying but you were downright rude and that was uncalled for.

Oct/Nov 2004. US employees gave up 15% to 23% pay, plus cuts to benefits. You were supposed a rate snap back in two years or if there was a merger. Well, you had a merger with AW AND it's been 2 years. You should have seen a substantial pay increase. Did you?

Are you talking about a specific group of employees or what?

As far as the mechanics group there was a snap back provision (not the change of control snap back) but that contract was abrogated by the judge pending last ditch, so called, negotiations. The last and final offer given to the membership to vote on didn't have that language. As far the change of control (not merger) that is supposed to be heard by a arbitrator in Feb provided the IAM doesn't screw the membership beforehand.

 

[MMB]

I may not have made myself clear on what I was saying but you were downright rude and that was uncalled for.

And last but not least does a rapist ask first. I wouldn't know but you seem to.

I bet everyone in the world has been told "no" for something and did or tried it anyway.

“Sure, go ahead and do it. You’ll probably be doing them more harm than good, but if you don’t someone else will anyway. Besides, you know you want to, and there’s no law against it. It’s not like they can do anything about it.â€

Yes, I have known people who go by this philosophy. Complete self-centeredness with their only consideration being if, and how much trouble they can get in for their actions. I don’t associate with them. I know one who is currently in prison for murder and another who killed several people on three separate occasions (drunk driving) and is only out on a technicality. (Third strike laws don’t always work.)

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Is this about the merger because I have no idea what you are talking about. Hope you will work everything out. I going back to merger talk

 

[MMB]

Are you talking about a specific group of employees or what?

As far as the mechanics group there was a snap back provision (not the change of control snap back) but that contract was abrogated by the judge pending last ditch, so called, negotiations. The last and final offer given to the membership to vote on didn't have that language. As far the change of control (not merger) that is supposed to be heard by a arbitrator in Feb provided the IAM doesn't screw the membership beforehand.

I was speaking toward several news articles I’d read from the time the agreements were made. A google search should find them. It looks like this thread might touch on one of them, as well as some of DP’s synergies:
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32181

 

[USCREW]

...ignore any ‘no’ you didn’t like...

The "no" that's discussed on this board concerns a legal BUSINESS proposition, specific to aviation--not a "no" towards an illegal criminal act. There is zero correlation is your analogy. Sorry.

 

[MMB]

The "no" that's discussed on this board concerns a legal BUSINESS proposition, specific to aviation--not a "no" towards an illegal criminal act. There is zero correlation is your analogy. Sorry.

It has to do with an unwanted advance being quietly refused, followed by the aggressor responding with a hostile act (attack).

 

[USCREW]

It has to do with an unwanted advance being quietly refused, followed by the aggressor responding with a hostile act (attack).

Aggressor also offering 8.78 BILLION for said attack.